Is it all recruiting?

Mystery Train said:
That's the thing about coaching. It isn't one size fits all. Sounds like they have a formula and it appeals to a certain mindset, a highly competitive mindset where winning is the #1 priority. There will be those that hate on them for that, and those that love them for it. I can appreciate what they are doing, but am not a fan of that model for youth sports in general.
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You are spot on and I should have read your post before I said something similar. Winning does not matter at the younger ages and I am sorry if that upsets some. I just texted my player and asked her can she remember any of her trophies that she won before her team won their national championship at U16 and she said no. She is still friends though with girls that were on her U6 AYSO team and U11 club team. Focus on your player not the team. It will serve your player much more in the end.
 
timbuck said:
I was referring to the Blues in my original post. But maybe this could be relevant for several teams.
They recruit hard. And don't mind cutting a player. They get top talent.
But they must also have pretty good coaches, right? I don't hear much about their coaches. And I hear lots of negative stuff about the way they operare. But they are the premier club for girls soccer in OC (maybe even for the entire country).
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.
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I agree with about everything you said, except that their drills are "standard." Their training is performance-oriented. Or enhanced. Or standard drills on steroid. Actually, their philosophy is all about winning. However, winning today doesn't mean winning tomorrow. Or development. It doesn't mean a wholesome environment. It does mean recruitment. It does mean that girls and parents line up to make their teams. It does mean girls risk increased chance of injury to stay on the roster. By the standard of the current system, they're a stellar program.
 
I agree with MAP, TB is a great coach who treats his players with respect. He also recruits heavily, but is very honest with the players he recruits. Some of my DD's teammates have gotten unsolicited phone calls over the years. None have chosen to make the drive.

I have seen one game coached by the Baker brothers. Those are the types of coaches I avoid for my children. The constant screaming at players shows a lack of respect for them as people. It is possible to push a player hard without belittling them. I don't want to pay to put my kids in an environment where they may think that someone hurling verbal abuse at them is acceptable by me. I had some average coaches (basketball, football, judo, gymnastics), some asshole coaches (baseball) and two great coaches (judo and soccer) as a kid. Guess which ones inspired a love for the sport, good sportsmanship and a willingness to work hard?
 
outside! said:
It is possible to push a player hard without belittling them. I don't want to pay to put my kids in an environment where they may think that someone hurling verbal abuse at them is acceptable by me. I had some average coaches (basketball, football, judo, gymnastics), some asshole coaches (baseball) and two great coaches (judo and soccer) as a kid. Guess which ones inspired a love for the sport, good sportsmanship and a willingness to work hard?
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Totally agree with this. I can't speak on the Bakers, but here's a story on this point: My daughter has a HS coach (different sport) of hers that hurls verbal jabs at his players constantly, yells and berates. Much of it is insulting or personal and intended to embarrass, like "ARE YOU STUPID?!" When one kid told him she had an Achillies injury and would be out for 2 weeks, his response was, "Sucks to be hurt," and walked off. When confronted by another parent about his behavior, he said that he's building toughness and weeding out the weak. The problem is, his players have grown to hate him. Now, he knows his sport, and they do win. Today. But he has no clue that many of them are going to leave the program next year because they don't want to put up with the abuse. On the other hand, my daughter has a private trainer in soccer that also yells loudly at the kids during training and practice. He is intimidating, and many parents and players are turned off right from the start because he's loud. He told me something similar to what the other coach said, that he puts pressure on them in practice because if they can take it from him, the pressure of the game will seem insignificant. But one difference is, he only yells when they don't pay attention or fail to do something he has already shown them. And when he yells, he never insults them. He only barks at them "Do it the right way!" Or "WHY?!" The second difference (and most important) is that when they do it the right way, he yells his encouragement and praise with even more volume. "BIEN!! FANTASTIC!! THERE YOU GO!!!" After each practice, he hugs each one, shakes their hands and gives them a soft word of encouragement. He shows them personal respect. My daughter would run through a brick wall for him. Seeing these two coaches side by side has taught my daughter a ton about how to recognize a good leader or a bad one.
 
I like your post and I think that with in any organization those coaches exist. You have to find the one that speaks to your daughter. The other issue is THE GIRLS CHANGE. What my girl needed at 11 she doesn't need now. Imagine having a group of 20 teenagers dealing with hormones and boys, social media and school.
I am not waving the Blues flag because I can be empathetic to families or players who have had difficult circumstances or experiences.
At the end of the day though it's our job as parents to recognize when our daughter doesn't fit in a particular framework and move them to a place where they can develop to the best of their ability . I have been very honest with friends of mine who have wanted to come to the Blues because of a winning team or a winning record and not looking at the philosophy of the club or the philosophy of the particular coach that they want to play for. That is the really hard part! Looking at a team your daughter wants to play for and maybe could but gauging the risk vs reward for her. It's a culture issue at a Club that can sometimes be a toxic environment for a young lady.
I think that is something that is sorely overlooked in Southern California soccer but I think if you go to the website it's very clear about the expectations and the philosophy.
This thread can be applied to many different clubs and many different coaches . How many of us have heard about Randy and Arsenal over the years ? You have to listen to these tales but somewhere in the middle of what we are hearing and seeing is the truth and often our perceptions are not always reality because of the emotion involved as it is our children and our friends we are speaking about.
 
We have a younger at Blues and have been in the soccer scene with our older DD for 10 years and with 4 different strong So Cal clubs between the two. Blues being a girls only club has something to it. I wish we had taken our older through this system. We appreciate the professionalism, hard work, high expectations and evaluations. We don't find it cold or harsh. We like the transparency. And it's been nice that her coach hasn't missed one single practice or one game. :)

Do I know what the future holds? No. Coaches change, kids change, clubs change, USSF rules change. The soccer world is always evolving. I'm just saying, that yes, it's highly competitive and with high expectations, but it's also encouraging and fun. We had this same environment for my older, once. The other two clubs were terrible, in terms of professionalism and development. What does that say....sadly, it's a 50/50 shot for us parents. In other words....one mans trash is another mans treasure. As are coaches and clubs! Find the fit for you and your kid. End of story.

Now, speaking of BB. We have friends with kids on both 01 and 02's. All I've heard is that the girls love their coaches. They've told me that with all the yelling and super high expectations, also comes sincerity and passion. One player personally told me, "at least they care about me." Having experience at other ECNL clubs with olders, yelling and belittling are not uncommon, unfortunately. BB are not anomalies.

Nutshell.....there's a place for everyone. You just need to find it. It's not always easy. Good luck! People being honest and sharing insight on this forum is always helpful. Continue.




BarcaLover said:
timbuck....One of my best friends has a couple kids at the Blues, one plays for the Baker Bros. He has told me on multiple occassions that he has felt that they have stepped WAY over the line in regards to the berating, belittling and the flat out emotional distress they cause. But yet they have stayed there because the team is incredibly successful and they know the exposure the team gets is invaluable for her goal of playing in college and possibly the WNT. And his daughter wants to stay and fight for her spot inspite of what the BB say to her because she feels it's "best for her future".

The environment on that team is "you better perform otherwise you are gone because I've got 100 kids available to me that would kill for your starting spot". Is that the best environment for creating a winning team? I don't know, but it sure works for them! That team losses a game about once a year.

I've seen their training sessions and it's not like they are doing anything "cutting edge" to get these girls to drastically improve their skills. It's pretty standard stuff. But just about every girl on that team is doing privates because they know if they do not continue to improve they will lose their spot. That competetive environment makes everyone work extremely hard and raises everyone's level of play.

So if you get 100 girls to tryout and you narrow it down to the 20 most competetive and talented girls for the team and then create
an environment in which everyone is working extremely hard to get even better and fighting for their spot on the team, I think you have a recipe for success.
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outside! said:
That sounds very similar to what women who won't leave an abusive partner say.
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If it were so abusive, I would think the turnover rate would be a lot higher than it is. I can't speak from personal experience with BB, but I can tell you from our past with two other ECNL coaches, there are no saints in this 99-02 age group. Coaches are in it to win it. Period. And there are many ways to be abusive. Just sayin'.
 
Unless you play for a club you cannot have insight to the environment they create. I am not a man so I can't tell you what if feels like to be one and I will never know with certainty. With exceptions to those who have played for any particular club, any opinions that are not first hand are just that. One, "all" competitive clubs recruit hard and heavy, it's a red herring to suggest that a club is only successful because all they do is recruit, I laugh when I hear that. Example: parents and even kids on our team have received texts from Strikers coaches during their game as they are positioned on the other side of the field. They often pester our players once a week, asking them to attend their practices or attend games with them. Not judging methods just reiterating that their are no competitive clubs that do not recruit relentlessly. Two, we parents can say whatever we want on here but if teams in any club do not win or certain players do not get play time, players will leave period! Stop kidding yourselves it's all about our own story and we are just as much to blame as any club. I've even seen parents get abusive with their kids in parking lots before and after games depending on their play. Enjoy and watch yourselves out there!
 
genesis said:
Unless you play for a club you cannot have insight to the environment they create. I am not a man so I can't tell you what if feels like to be one and I will never know with certainty. With exceptions to those who have played for any particular club, any opinions that are not first hand are just that. One, "all" competitive clubs recruit hard and heavy, it's a red herring to suggest that a club is only successful because all they do is recruit, I laugh when I hear that. Example: parents and even kids on our team have received texts from Strikers coaches during their game as they are positioned on the other side of the field. They often pester our players once a week, asking them to attend their practices or attend games with them. Not judging methods just reiterating that their are no competitive clubs that do not recruit relentlessly. Two, we parents can say whatever we want on here but if teams in any club do not win or certain players do not get play time, players will leave period! Stop kidding yourselves it's all about our own story and we are just as much to blame as any club. I've even seen parents get abusive with their kids in parking lots before and after games depending on their play. Enjoy and watch yourselves out there!
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Just trying to understand your logic, not the substance of your post. So your premise is that insight and judgment only comes from first hand experience? It would follow that none of us is entitled to vote since we don't know what it's like to be POTUS.
 
Laced said:
Just trying to understand your logic, not the substance of your post. So your premise is that insight and judgment only comes from first hand experience? It would follow that none of us is entitled to vote since we don't know what it's like to be POTUS.
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You have opinions, fine. I think it's one that is predicated on something you have no knowledge of. As Genesis says, "Unless you play for a club you cannot have insight to the environment they create."
 
Timbuck has probably noticed this as well but recruiting starts as early as AYSO. During tournaments, during AYSO Extra tryouts, you will find a number of coaches watching and handing out cards. Telling you how great your kid is and to come play for them. Our complete Extra team was recruited by our current club team, allowing the whole coaching staff to move as well. Our team hasn't recruited anyone yet, but if you have a 2005 daughter than is a great striker, send me a message. :) LOL
 
Laced said:
Just trying to understand your logic, not the substance of your post. So your premise is that insight and judgment only comes from first hand experience? It would follow that none of us is entitled to vote since we don't know what it's like to be POTUS.
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You proved my point, yes half of people vote without insight and judgment. Can we get back to club bashing without cause?
 
I think a more interesting question is: how will the recruiting efforts of some clubs be affected by the likes of Galaxy's "free" GDA?

Unless they will be fully funded as well?
 
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