2017-2018 D1 Women's Soccer Talk!

This article is from 6 years ago, so probably makes more sense to folks with kid's playing in college right now when
their kids (girls) were in the "commotional" years, 11, 12, 13.

I got these from a contributor (MaP?, can't search for it): 5 tools for soccer (similar to baseball and other sports)
Speed
Size/Strength
Athleticism
Technical skills
High Soccer IQ

My kid's coach mention about tools you need to go to the next level and this is a decent framework for discussion.
I like Bobak's 0-50 scale, where 40-50 is elite and max 5 points increase. Not here to argue this, but just as a framework of discussion.
What I infer from this article is that nature is very important, but without the nurture part, your kid can only go, so far.

I would really like to hear parents who went through these commotional years and see what happened to their kids or what they saw.
Come on, folks. Sign a peace treaty and have a few beers/puffs, until next season starts, then game on. :)
 
Justafan said:
All of them?




None of them fell into this group?
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Plenty that fell into several of those groups. Most of the players who matriculated to top D1 programs were in the ODP program by 12/13. The ones who were tops then aren't necessarily the top players now. As an example the consensus top 3 players in the 2016 graduating class from SoCal played a total combined zero minutes for their college teams last year. 2 played in the U20 WWC and one was redshirted. This season one of those players started 19 of her teams 20 games, played almost 1400 minutes and made the all-conference team as a freshman (a successful season). One of the players played in 10 of 20 games with 1 start for a total of 260 minutes. One player played in 12 of her teams 25 games with one start and 267 minutes played. All three were ranked in the top 15 of the graduating class with 2 in the top 5. I can think of a couple of players that weren't called into YNT camps at 13/14 from SoCal that were on those ODP teams with those same players that played more minutes this year than all of those previous players combined.

US Soccer does a poor job of predicting success. Thank goodness the US has college soccer to filter the best players. You want to figure out who the best players are. Just watch who is playing the most on the best, deepest teams. The lineup for the CONCACAAF qualifiers will reflect it...
 
Gokicksomegrass said:
This article is from 6 years ago, so probably makes more sense to folks with kid's playing in college right now when
their kids (girls) were in the "commotional" years, 11, 12, 13.

I got these from a contributor (MaP?, can't search for it): 5 tools for soccer (similar to baseball and other sports)
Speed
Size/Strength
Athleticism
Technical skills
High Soccer IQ

My kid's coach mention about tools you need to go to the next level and this is a decent framework for discussion.
I like Bobak's 0-50 scale, where 40-50 is elite and max 5 points increase. Not here to argue this, but just as a framework of discussion.
What I infer from this article is that nature is very important, but without the nurture part, your kid can only go, so far.

I would really like to hear parents who went through these commotional years and see what happened to their kids or what they saw.
Come on, folks. Sign a peace treaty and have a few beers/puffs, until next season starts, then game on. :)
Click to expand...


My player was fortunate in that she was always in the top group of players coming up but early on was top 25-30 (in the ODP coaches eyes) but not in the top 11 or so. This lead to lots of disappointment but also lots of motivation. She always felt that she was better than the players chosen over her but felt like she wasn't getting the chance. We decided to keep her training with good coaches, not necessarily on the best team but they always played the best competition. She was average height up until about U14 and although she was always one of if not the fastest player, she played lots of positions so it was easy to miss the impact that she had on a game. Honestly I think that it was the best thing for her to have to work hard and not have anything handed to her. By the time U16 hit she was pretty dominant because her size caught up with her speed and skills and at the same time she was still hungry to prove herself. Fast forward to her freshman year of college and she had never taken her foot of the pedal and was a starter from her very first summer practice. Now it's to the point were she doesn't even know how not to work hard on the field or in the classroom and she makes decisions that are best for HER long term goals. Not a lot of players that decline YNT invites because of class/fatigue. She is very mature and all of her experiences of disappointment helped get her there. ULittles was a tough and challenging time but with a gameplan, some confidence and a village supporting them players can come out the other end better. It's all about the player and their support group.

That's my 2 cents.
 
MakeAPlay said:
My player was fortunate in that she was always in the top group of players coming up but early on was top 25-30 (in the ODP coaches eyes) but not in the top 11 or so. This lead to lots of disappointment but also lots of motivation. She always felt that she was better than the players chosen over her but felt like she wasn't getting the chance. We decided to keep her training with good coaches, not necessarily on the best team but they always played the best competition. She was average height up until about U14 and although she was always one of if not the fastest player, she played lots of positions so it was easy to miss the impact that she had on a game. Honestly I think that it was the best thing for her to have to work hard and not have anything handed to her. By the time U16 hit she was pretty dominant because her size caught up with her speed and skills and at the same time she was still hungry to prove herself. Fast forward to her freshman year of college and she had never taken her foot of the pedal and was a starter from her very first summer practice. Now it's to the point were she doesn't even know how not to work hard on the field or in the classroom and she makes decisions that are best for HER long term goals. Not a lot of players that decline YNT invites because of class/fatigue. She is very mature and all of her experiences of disappointment helped get her there. ULittles was a tough and challenging time but with a gameplan, some confidence and a village supporting them players can come out the other end better. It's all about the player and their support group.

That's my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

If you read the Bobak article, review MAP's posts, and have some experience in the process, there are a lot of common themes that stick out. For me, what Bobak highlights, and MAP's five skills should be modified for, is a need to replace athleticism with something akin to confidence/agressiveness. If you have Speed, Size and Strength, you have basically outlined the components of athleticism. What is missing is the confidence to use your tools, trust your IQ, and the aggressiveness to challenge players, take a risk, and get to the next level. That was what Bobak was referring to, in my opinion, that cannot be taught. You can be a late bloomer and get the size and the strength when you are 14-16, and I would argue you can even add speed to move into elite territory in those years (assuming you are not slow to begin with). Many of these later bloomers end up like it seems MAP's did at 12-14 (as did my youngest) -- in the pool, making the cut, sometimes alternates or even at the end of the bench, but not in the starting eleven. Those who control the early process are not all knowing, and one should not get discouraged by setbacks. But to expect a mid-level player on a decent team to become elite at D1, in the Bobak world to jump 10-15 points, is pretty rare indeed.
 
Dos Equis said:
If you read the Bobak article, review MAP's posts, and have some experience in the process, there are a lot of common themes that stick out. For me, what Bobak highlights, and MAP's five skills should be modified for, is a need to replace athleticism with something akin to confidence/agressiveness. If you have Speed, Size and Strength, you have basically outlined the components of athleticism. What is missing is the confidence to use your tools, trust your IQ, and the aggressiveness to challenge players, take a risk, and get to the next level. That was what Bobak was referring to, in my opinion, that cannot be taught. You can be a late bloomer and get the size and the strength when you are 14-16, and I would argue you can even add speed to move into elite territory in those years (assuming you are not slow to begin with). Many of these later bloomers end up like it seems MAP's did at 12-14 (as did my youngest) -- in the pool, making the cut, sometimes alternates or even at the end of the bench, but not in the starting eleven. Those who control the early process are not all knowing, and one should not get discouraged by setbacks. But to expect a mid-level player on a decent team to become elite at D1, in the Bobak world to jump 10-15 points, is pretty rare indeed.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I can't think of any players who weren't at least "pretty good" at age 13 who became "elite" later on.
Using your Bobak scale to rank a girl's overall game (and I hope this broad generalization makes sense...let's say a 50 is a unicorn, a 45 is an ODP first team starter, and a 30 is at the end of the bench on a good team at age 12 and at age 18 a 50 is a YNT player, a 45 is a starter at a top 25 program, and a 30 is a fringe college depth player at a non power 5 school), I've seen 30s become 40s and I've seen 40s become 50s, but I've never seen a 25 become a 45 or somesuch. Not that it doesn't happen, but I don't remember seeing it. A 10 point jump isn't rare, but anything beyond that is pretty uncommon in my experience.

I've also seen 13 year old 50s become 18 year old 40s (or whatever 10 point dropoff you want to point to on the scale), but unless a girl just gave up the game altogether for another sport, 15 point decreases are also pretty uncommon.

How good a girl is at age 13 doesn't necessarily equate to how good she'll be at age 18, but it's a pretty darn good predictor within a 10 point band or so.
 
Bobak you lost me at size. Where would Messi rank? Bobak and the blues credibility comes from recruiting, everyone know that.
 
timmyh said:
Well said.

I can't think of any players who weren't at least "pretty good" at age 13 who became "elite" later on.
Using your Bobak scale to rank a girl's overall game (and I hope this broad generalization makes sense...let's say a 50 is a unicorn, a 45 is an ODP first team starter, and a 30 is at the end of the bench on a good team at age 12 and at age 18 a 50 is a YNT player, a 45 is a starter at a top 25 program, and a 30 is a fringe college depth player at a non power 5 school), I've seen 30s become 40s and I've seen 40s become 50s, but I've never seen a 25 become a 45 or somesuch. Not that it doesn't happen, but I don't remember seeing it. A 10 point jump isn't rare, but anything beyond that is pretty uncommon in my experience.

I've also seen 13 year old 50s become 18 year old 40s (or whatever 10 point dropoff you want to point to on the scale), but unless a girl just gave up the game altogether for another sport, 15 point decreases are also pretty uncommon.

How good a girl is at age 13 doesn't necessarily equate to how good she'll be at age 18, but it's a pretty darn good predictor within a 10 point band or so.
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There is a girl my DD played with who not only was probably at the end of the bench at U12 but was not even playing soccer yet. She turned out to be pretty good. I heard she's a starter on an elite D1 team...
 
So, since DA players are now not allowed to participate in ODP-- and some of the best youngers (11-12) are playing up on DA teams-- how will players be scouted now-- since ODP, even at the youngest ages, will not necessarily reflect all the best players in SoCal anymore? The handful of girls participating in YNTs only represent a small fraction of the talent, at least in SoCal. Will US Soccer expand its program? Will it be on the clubs to promote? On the players and their parents?
 
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Real Deal said:
So, since DA players are now not allowed to participate in ODP-- and some of the best youngers (11-12) are playing up on DA teams-- how will players be scouted now-- since ODP, even at the youngest ages, will not necessarily reflect all the best players in SoCal anymore?

IMHO The handful of girls participating in YNTs only represent a small fraction of the talent, at least in SoCal. So, if all the rest of the top players previously came mainly from the opinions of the ODP staff, then D1 coaches may need to expand their vision in the near future to find the players they need. How do you predict they will do that? Will US Soccer expand its program? Will it be on the clubs to promote? On the players and their parents?
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They will continue to do what they have always done. Go to the top clubs. Go to the top showcases. Talk to coaches who they respect. Go overseas. Honestly only a handful of schools get the vast majority of the YNT players that are still in the system when college comes around. All of the other coaches have had to grind and turn over a bunch of rocks to find players. With 320+ D1 schools and more than double that amount when you add in D2/D3. The Stanford/UCLA/UNC/Duke/Penn St./Notre Dame hegemony for YNT recruits will continue. Everyone else will continue being creative. Lot's of options. This is the golden age for girls soccer and GDA can barely screw it up.
 
surfrider said:
Concussions and ACLs are a huge factor in those that fell off the map
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Sounds like your excuse for what is going on at Georgetown. More excuses for why your kid is no longer in the YNT pool and not balling in college.... I don't remember her getting an ACL injury or a concussion. Just stop with the excuses. Some kids are Indians and some are Chiefs. Some got told by mom and dad that they were great (like in your situation) but they were lied to. They were decent or good. If you have to parents that are turkeys you aren't going to get a racehorse....
 
MakeAPlay said:
Sounds like your excuse for what is going on at Georgetown. More excuses for why your kid is no longer in the YNT pool and not balling in college.... I don't remember her getting an ACL injury or a concussion. Just stop with the excuses. Some kids are Indians and some are Chiefs. Some got told by mom and dad that they were great (like in your situation) but they were lied to. They were decent or good. If you have to parents that are turkeys you aren't going to get a racehorse....
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Lighten up there Lavar. My kid is doing damn well and will continue. But good on you for throwing another innocent teenage girl under the bus. Your predictability and pure dickheadedness never fail to make an appearance even when posters here are contributing to someone else’s questions. But I give way to the King. The almighty king of the dicks. How was your trip? Getting your daughter set to play in Lithuania too?
 
surfrider said:
Lighten up there Lavar. My kid is doing damn well and will continue. But good on you for throwing another innocent teenage girl under the bus. Your predictability and pure dickheadedness never fail to make an appearance even when posters here are contributing to someone else’s questions. But I give way to the King. The almighty king of the dicks. How was your trip? Getting your daughter set to play in Lithuania too?
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Did I touch a nerve? You are going to get tired of being wrong eventually. And anytime you get the huevos you can shut me up in person.... Coward.
 
surfrider said:
Lighten up there Lavar. My kid is doing damn well and will continue. But good on you for throwing another innocent teenage girl under the bus. Your predictability and pure dickheadedness never fail to make an appearance even when posters here are contributing to someone else’s questions. But I give way to the King. The almighty king of the dicks. How was your trip? Getting your daughter set to play in Lithuania too?
Click to expand...

2 Turkeys don't make a racehorse. Remember that....
 
surfrider said:
Lighten up there Lavar. My kid is doing damn well and will continue. But good on you for throwing another innocent teenage girl under the bus. Your predictability and pure dickheadedness never fail to make an appearance even when posters here are contributing to someone else’s questions. But I give way to the King. The almighty king of the dicks. How was your trip? Getting your daughter set to play in Lithuania too?
Click to expand...


Dave you are getting sloppy. I never mentioned anyone's name. And I am sure that your kid is doing damn well according to you. Post a link so that we can weigh in on how she is doing. I already know how it's going. She played less minutes in the tournament as my daughter played in the first half of her first tournament game. I also remember my kid having to cover for her limited athleticism that last year at Surf.

At least she is at a great academic school and who knows she might play more next year as a junior. I will ask her in August in France. Oh I forgot that she won't be there. Well ce la vie...
 
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