Roster Changes - u15/2005 birth year for 2019-20

[justneededaname]

Interesting... so was wondering if club DA roster attrition good or bad? Without knowing the actual reason for the attrition it's difficult to tell I think.

I guess the first question is good or bad for whom?

Players? The ones that left probably thought at the time it was good. Only time will tell if that was the right decision. Of those who stayed, some probably thought the others leaving was good and some probably thought it was bad. How it ends up will depend on the player.

Clubs? As long as there is still someone to write our checks to and schedule our games, do we really care? For the clubs that provide the service at no charge, they get to decide for themselves.

The Quality of Professional US Players? As long as the best players keep moving up (club -> MLS acad or Europe -> USL or Europe ->MLS or Europe) then moving is not a bad thing.

Youth soccer in the US in general? I think the vast majority of youth soccer players and parents in the US have no idea what the DA is. So in that case, it is neither good or bad, it is irrelevant.

 

[Kante]

I guess the first question is good or bad for whom?

Players? The ones that left probably thought at the time it was good. Only time will tell if that was the right decision. Of those who stayed, some probably thought the others leaving was good and some probably thought it was bad. How it ends up will depend on the player.

Clubs? As long as there is still someone to write our checks to and schedule our games, do we really care? For the clubs that provide the service at no charge, they get to decide for themselves.

The Quality of Professional US Players? As long as the best players keep moving up (club -> MLS acad or Europe -> USL or Europe ->MLS or Europe) then moving is not a bad thing.

Youth soccer in the US in general? I think the vast majority of youth soccer players and parents in the US have no idea what the DA is. So in that case, it is neither good or bad, it is irrelevant.

was thinking primarily about the DA families and by connection the DA players.

feel like typical/average club attrition/churn is an important piece of information to know when considering teams. if a club asks your son to join but you know that historically 40% of the club's players one year are not with the club the next year, that seems like good info to know.

 

[justneededaname]

feel like typical/average club attrition/churn is an important piece of information to know when considering teams. if a club asks your son to join but you know that historically 40% of the club's players one year are not with the club the next year, that seems like good info to know.

I agree. It would be very useful to have year over year data for both a specific birth year (05s for example) or for an age (U15s). If 40% is common from year to year and across clubs, then it is not an indicator that a parent can really use for making a decision on which club to join. If you only have one year of data to make your decision on it is hard to know how relevant it is.

I guess what I am saying is I hope you and your data crunching are in this for the long haul so when my trailing child gets here (U10 currently) I can get some really useful numbers to look at. Keep it up, like many, I appreciate your hobby.

 

[MWN]

was thinking primarily about the DA families and by connection the DA players.

feel like typical/average club attrition/churn is an important piece of information to know when considering teams. if a club asks your son to join but you know that historically 40% of the club's players one year are not with the club the next year, that seems like good info to know.

@Kante, you are looking at this through the wrong lenses. Consistent connections between players and their families on DA teams means US Soccer has failed. The goal is to identify elite players and provide a league for those elite players and the next level down to play. US Soccer should encourage a high churn rate with regard to the league fodder (i.e. everybody below the top 50 players in an age group). If the DA and its clubs are doing their jobs then DA1 teams should see about a 20% to 30% churn rate and the DA2 clubs should probably see closer to 40% to 50%, assuming they are looking for DA quality players and not trying to keep parents on the hook with dues.

The top players need to be identified and moved to the MLS Academies, and the other players need to stay at competitive soccer DA2/Premier/NPL, etc., etc. for colleges exposure.

 

[Kante]

@Kante, you are looking at this through the wrong lenses. Consistent connections between players and their families on DA teams means US Soccer has failed. The goal is to identify elite players and provide a league for those elite players and the next level down to play. US Soccer should encourage a high churn rate with regard to the league fodder (i.e. everybody below the top 50 players in an age group). If the DA and its clubs are doing their jobs then DA1 teams should see about a 20% to 30% churn rate and the DA2 clubs should probably see closer to 40% to 50%, assuming they are looking for DA quality players and not trying to keep parents on the hook with dues.

The top players need to be identified and moved to the MLS Academies, and the other players need to stay at competitive soccer DA2/Premier/NPL, etc., etc. for colleges exposure.

MWN, get the points and understand the pov. fair discussion. so, three questions (genuinely asked) then. 1) from this pov, who is the primary customer in this environment? 2) should families be explicitly informed by the club - before signing their son up - that the goal is to churn 20-50% of the DA roster yoy 3) At the December eval, should players and families be informed where the player sits on the team depth chart?

 

[MWN]

MWN, get the points and understand the pov. fair discussion. so, three questions (genuinely asked) then. 1) from this pov, who is the primary customer in this environment? 2) should families be explicitly informed by the club - before signing their son up - that the goal is to churn 20-50% of the DA roster yoy 3) At the December eval, should players and families be informed where the player sits on the team depth chart?

1. The primary customer of the DA is US Soccer and the MLS. The money invested by US Soccer and the MLS are orders of magnitude higher than any player, parent or team. Never forget that the sole purpose is to identify elite talent.

2. Clubs should be not mislead and should be clear on the DA League purpose. Parents have a responsibility to educate themselves.

3. I don't believe parents should be involved for DA1 teams, DA2 teams are now glorified club programs, so possibly. But always go back to the purpose of the DA: find unicorns and move them to MLS residential academies, professional teams, and eventually the National team.

 

[SoCalFutBolCrazy]

Completely agree with MWN. If US Soccer cannot keep the DA to this high standard then very soon we'll see MLS Youth Academies creating their own league. One thing I have noticed though regarding new players joining a DA team - majority seem to be coming from some other DA team not from other Premier/DA2/NPL teams. Now why are these players leaving their old DA team and venturing into another DA team? Clearly they are not at the level where they can get into an MLS Academy yet. For the non-MLS DAs I think there is some selection bias towards prior DA player. Except for a select few the quality of these players needs to be seen.

Except for clubs who don't have DA till u19 this phenomenon of attrition needs to be investigated and some pattern may help. Maybe it's the parents of these kids think it's a better Academy and take the kids there.

Would post more of my observations...

 

[foreveryoung]

1. The primary customer of the DA is US Soccer and the MLS. The money invested by US Soccer and the MLS are orders of magnitude higher than any player, parent or team. Never forget that the sole purpose is to identify elite talent.

2. Clubs should be not mislead and should be clear on the DA League purpose. Parents have a responsibility to educate themselves.

3. I don't believe parents should be involved for DA1 teams, DA2 teams are now glorified club programs, so possibly. But always go back to the purpose of the DA: find unicorns and move them to MLS residential academies, professional teams, and eventually the National team.

This sounds pretty accurate, but the real question is does it work? Are you only explaining the system or also endorsing it?

Isn't this limited vision/mission the reason we can't compete at the national level? Any idea how US soccer and the MLS teams define elite youth talent? Is there a unified understanding of what they are looking for in players that the DA clubs are adhering to when they make up their DA teams each year? And what about all the other potential "elite talent" that aren't playing in a DA league? And what is the incentive to clubs to move their top players to the MLS academies?

 

[MWN]

This sounds pretty accurate, but the real question is does it work? Are you only explaining the system or also endorsing it?

Isn't this limited vision/mission the reason we can't compete at the national level? Any idea how US soccer and the MLS teams define elite youth talent? Is there a unified understanding of what they are looking for in players that the DA clubs are adhering to when they make up their DA teams each year? And what about all the other potential "elite talent" that aren't playing in a DA league? And what is the incentive to clubs to move their top players to the MLS academies?

Now you are opening a bag of worms with complexities that most Americans refuse to accept (including US Soccer and the MLS), but here it goes:

1) The Development Academy league works very well at identifying very talented American youth players (12-15/16). The reason we can't compete at the national/international level has nothing to do with our early youth development system (DA/ECNL/NPL/ODP/SUPER-Y), rather, everything do with what happens after age 15 or age 16 and especially 17-20. Let me try to give you an analogy:

Let's pretend these leagues were colleges and judged on Academics of their graduates:

• England (Premiere League) ---> Harvard
• Germany (Bundesliga) ---> Yale
• France (Ligue 1) ---> MIT
• Italy (Serie A) ---> Stanford
• Spain (La Liga) ---> Columbia
• Brazil (Serie A) ---> Princeton
• Mexico (Liga MX) --->Tufts
• [Rest of Europe] ---> Pick a UC School
• [Rest of Latin America] ---> Pick a Cal State School
• MLS ---> Rancho Santiago Community College
• USL ---> Southern Alabama Community College

The US cannot compete against professional International players because our best, and I mean our very best MLS team would be a bottom of the standing 2nd division team, and our worst MLS team would be a bottom of the barrel 3rd division team in virtually every league.

In Europe, the saying goes for most soccer players that "If you have not signed a professional contract by age 16, you are not going to make it." These 15 and 16 year olds are playing and practicing at levels that not even our MLS players see. This is the reason that kids like Pulisic and Sargent high tail it to Europe as soon as they can. If they are lucky they avoid the Article 19 waiting period, and sign with a team by age 16/17, like Pulisic.

Our problem has little to do with the youth system, and everything do to with our professional system. Elite US players stagnate in the US compared to their European counterparts because the level of professional training here (age 16 to 40) is the equivalent of community college. Going back to my academic analogy, we send players holding AA degrees against Harvard MBAs to compete on the International stage.

The good news is that with the recent success of Pulisic, many European clubs are eyeballing US Talent and luring that talent into Europe to receive legitimate professional training. The tide is turning and the DA League helps aggregate that talent for display. The bad news is the MLS realizes it screwed up with RSTP and is getting nothing for talented 18 year olds that are jumping to Europe.

2) The above answers all of your questions, except for the last one. There is no incentive. No training fee compensation, no solidarity payments, no RSTP at all ... nothing, therefore no incentive. For this we blame the players.

 

[foreveryoung]

The Development Academy league works very well at identifying very talented American youth players (12-15/16).

What do you base this statement on? Just your personal opinion or do you have something to back this up? And do you mean works well at identifying very talented American players from the DA league or American youth players period?

I am aware that we are the only country that has a college then professional pathway for players. I am also aware that in most other countries soccer is generally a working class sport that is not played by kids that are working towards a higher education. In England for instance the private school kids play Rugby and would never think of playing soccer. There are no soccer teams at private schools. And particularly the best world players originated from humble beginnings (as did two of the US best players to date: Dempsey and Donovan). I would guess the DA league considering it's costs and travel requirements (excluding fully funded programs) would be unattainable to the kids that play soccer in other countries and from my experience is primarily played by upper middle class kids.

So are we good at identifying very talented youth that can play in the DA league or very talented youth American players?

I would also argue that the recent success of US kids playing in Europe is not necessarily indicative of success for US soccer. Developing a US soccer star would be a major win for any European club because we are the last untapped soccer market and it will bode well for their marketing efforts in the US. The PL morning show loves to use Pulisic in all their marketing shots and talk about him to death because it encourages US ratings. I am rooting for Pulisic but I'm yet to be convinced he's of the quality to be an impact player in a major PL club. Whether all the US kids playing in Europe have international quality potential is yet to be proven. And the last time they played together on the YNT it didn't seem encouraging. Perhaps they look better playing in Europe because they are surrounded by better quality players on the pitch. Only time will tell.

 

[SoCalFutBolCrazy]

I cannot agree with MWN more.

We have the talent but we simply don't have the system to develop players!

2 years back when my son was u13 my son used to go to a training session hosted by a Coach who was an ex Ajax Academy player ( originally LA native ). One day he called me and told me one thing, if you want your son to grow into a football player please take him to Europe.

Looks like us who have spent so much effort, time, money, hard work by the kid to even get to this level in US are all doomed... if you think of the big picture.

However... I'm an optimist.