Question about Ulittle headers

Art said:
I posted IFK because that was the rule for scdsl, anyone outside of SCDSL I encountered was rather new to the no header rule. Id say a drop ball would be a waste of time havin to get to the spot and explaining why theres a drop for this situation. It just feels out of place to me. A ifk is a simpler restart where you get into position right after you make the call, a drop ball is like a foreign candy to the kids at those ages.
Click to expand...

So is stopping the game for no reason.

The usual reason for an IFK is that one team has committed an infraction that deserves them being disadvantaged, but the infraction is not so offensive as those that deserve a direct free kick or penalty kick. Being struck in the head by the ball may not even give the stricken player's team an advantage. A drop ball is just as pointless as an IFK in that situation, but at least it does not give the player's opponents any advantage.
 
watfly said:
That's interesting that the dropped ball for inadvertant headers has been adopted by some tournaments, that probably makes sense from a safety standpoint. All of our tournaments this year and last (including league) utilized the original rules as posted by USSF, non-deliberate headers resulted in no foul and play on. Either rule works, although punishing a non-deliberate header with an IFK seems to contradict the USSF guidance, but fortunately I have yet to see that employed.

Refs do you get sent the rules for each tournament (as opposed to just a link to the rules on the tourney website)? Do these rules sometimes differ from the rules as posted on the tourney website? Thanks.
Click to expand...

The current instruction from USSF and Cal South is that any inadvertent contact between the ball and a player's (11 and younger) head is a drop ball. The coach is also supposed to take that player out to evaluate for a head injury.
 
watfly said:
Refs do you get sent the rules for each tournament (as opposed to just a link to the rules on the tourney website)? Do these rules sometimes differ from the rules as posted on the tourney website? Thanks.
Click to expand...

@watfly USSF sends out its recommendation, the various Youth Soccer affiliates (US Youth Soccer, US Club Soccer, AYSO, YES) then adopt their own interpretation (or the US Soccer) rule. In the case of US Youth Soccer, its member, Cal South adopts its interpretation of the rule and then its constituent leagues (CSL, SCDSL, Presidio, all the various Rec programs, etc.) adopt their own interpretation of the rule. Tournaments are their own animals and can modify the rules to whatever they want. So, do these rules sometimes differ ... absolutely. Moreover, Referee Associations then get directives from USSF, Cal South, Leagues all with additional interpretations. Last year we received the rule that said "intentional headers not allowed." SCDSL directed the Referees to also stop play for "unintentional headers" in order to make sure the little tike is OK, then restart with a drop ball.

US Soccer's published rule states: "Deliberate heading is not allowed in 7v7, 9v9 - U11 games. Heading is currently allowed in U12 games without limitations but membership is empowered to limit or ban heading at this level of play If a player deliberately heads the ball in a game, an indirect free kick should be awarded to the opposing team from the spot of the offense If the deliberate header occurs within the goal area, the indirect free kick should be taken on the goal area line parallel to the goal line at the nearest point to where the infringement occurred"

The US Youth Soccer (Cal South) rule is: Rule 305, Section 3. All Players age 10 and younger shall not head the ball directly from the air in any match or competition, nor shall these players practice heading the ball in any organized team setting. If a player age 10 or younger deliberately heads the ball in a match, the referee shall award an indirect free kick to the opposing team at the spot of the infraction. If the heading occurs within the penalty area, the referee shall move the ball outside the penalty area and award an indirect free kick to the opposing team.

The SCDSL rule on paper is: 1. There is no deliberate heading in 7 v 7 or 9 v 9 games (what constitutes "deliberate" will be determined by the referee during the game). 2. If a defensive player deliberately heads the ball inside of their own penalty area, an indirect free kick will be awarded to the attacking team perpendicular to the spot of the infringement OUTSIDE OF THE PENALTY AREA. 3. If an attacking player deliberately heads the ball inside of the opposing teams penalty area, an indirect free kick will be awarded to the defending team from the point of the infringement.

CSL doesn't have a rule, so we default to Cal South / US Youth Soccer.

I have sat in Referee meetings where the instructions was "All headers, deliberate or unintentional are disallowed." I've also witnessed US Youth Soccer - Regional tournaments adopt the same rule (stop play for all headers and restart with IFK if deliberate and Drop Ball if unintentional."

Unless I'm told to call it another way, this is what I do ...
  • Deliberate Header - Stop play and award an Indirect Free Kick
  • Unintentional Header AND player reacts in a negative manner due to force of contact - Stop play to have coaches evaluate player to make sure not effected by contact ... drop ball.
  • Unintentional Header with no negative reaction or merely a glancing of ball to head - play on.
 
Surfref said:
The current instruction from USSF and Cal South is that any inadvertent contact between the ball and a player's (11 and younger) head is a drop ball. The coach is also supposed to take that player out to evaluate for a head injury.
Click to expand...
Other than being told in referee meetings, I have yet to see this in writing. Do you know where I can find a copy?
 
 
watfly said:
That's interesting that the dropped ball for inadvertant headers has been adopted by some tournaments, that probably makes sense from a safety standpoint. All of our tournaments this year and last (including league) utilized the original rules as posted by USSF, non-deliberate headers resulted in no foul and play on. Either rule works, although punishing a non-deliberate header with an IFK seems to contradict the USSF guidance, but fortunately I have yet to see that employed.

Refs do you get sent the rules for each tournament (as opposed to just a link to the rules on the tourney website)? Do these rules sometimes differ from the rules as posted on the tourney website? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes. we get tournament rules sent to us prior to the tournaments. And yes, sometimes they differ slightly from the rules posted on the website, but usually only in that they are more specific and in-depth. i would much rather let play go on an inadvertent header, but, once again, we don't get to do only what we want. we get to enforce the tournament or gaming league directives. although, at surf cup, we were directed that a "slight or glancing" touch by the ball to a u-little head might just as well be overlooked.
 
baldref said:
i just looked up both sets of rules sent out to referees for both tournaments this weekend. both sets say inadvertent header is a drop ball. i doubt leanne said differently, but if she did she made a mistake.
Click to expand...
She and I had this discussion during Pegasus Cup. I gave her a couple scenarios and she was pretty clear that if it hit the head it was an IFK. I know the rules this weekend said a drop ball but I would say 95% of my games had headers both ways and all were called at IFK. I never argued because I assumed it was the rule but I guess I should look closer. It was a weird weekend at 4S, i had one ref that wanted to use the top of the box as the play out line because it was easier to see. :)
What I would love is for someone to just say here are the rules, they are the correct rules, please all abide by them. This constant change puts refs in a no win situation and makes life so difficult for these little guys have to adjust to new rules every week.
 
Socal United said:
She and I had this discussion during Pegasus Cup. I gave her a couple scenarios and she was pretty clear that if it hit the head it was an IFK. I know the rules this weekend said a drop ball but I would say 95% of my games had headers both ways and all were called at IFK. I never argued because I assumed it was the rule but I guess I should look closer. It was a weird weekend at 4S, i had one ref that wanted to use the top of the box as the play out line because it was easier to see. :)
What I would love is for someone to just say here are the rules, they are the correct rules, please all abide by them. This constant change puts refs in a no win situation and makes life so difficult for these little guys have to adjust to new rules every week.
Click to expand...
i would say just try to make sure you hit up whomever assigns you for the tournament or league rules and follow them. and no.... arguing with leanne is not a fruitful endeavor....... i think this new set of rules will work themselves out, once people and tournaments and leagues stop modifying them. it's really not that complicated. but what do i know?
 
baldref said:
i would say just try to make sure you hit up whomever assigns you for the tournament or league rules and follow them. and no.... arguing with leanne is not a fruitful endeavor....... i think this new set of rules will work themselves out, once people and tournaments and leagues stop modifying them. it's really not that complicated. but what do i know?
Click to expand...
Yes, being right has no impact on the decision. :) I love her passion though and always have. You used the key word, modifying.
 
I decided to see if I was correct in my understanding, so I contacted Cal South (George). With regard to Cal South tournaments, US Youth Soccer tournaments and US Soccer events, my understanding was confirmed as "correct" with the caveat that if there is any doubt as to the impact of the ball on the player, stop play and have the player examined by the coach or trainer. If the inadvertent header was glancing and/or the Referee feels the impact was minor, the Referee retains the discretion to allow play to continue. The restart on an inadvertent header is "drop ball" and not an IFK. IFK only applies when the header was deliberate. Moreover, the location of the IFK has changed this year to the goal box line and not the penalty box line.

The above is subject to modification by the Leagues and Tournament rules.
 
Is a player obligated to move to avoid the header? In other word does a player have to move towards the ball if order for it to be an intentional header or simply not move and let the ball hit their head?
 
wildcat66 said:
Is a player obligated to move to avoid the header? In other word does a player have to move towards the ball if order for it to be an intentional header or simply not move and let the ball hit their head?
Click to expand...
The kids are 10 and under. The rule is intended (correctly or not) to protect them. Everything isn't black or white. Refs will use their discretion. This is minuatie.
 
wildcat66 said:
Is a player obligated to move to avoid the header? In other word does a player have to move towards the ball if order for it to be an intentional header or simply not move and let the ball hit their head?
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

I apply the same logic as I would to handling.
 
coachrefparent said:
The kids are 10 and under. The rule is intended (correctly or not) to protect them. Everything isn't black or white. Refs will use their discretion. This is minuatie.
Click to expand...
I agree that it is minutiae except for when a coach is telling his players to intentionally hit the heads of their opponents on throw ins. I am glad you refs have creative ways to deal with this. Just wish those poor kids at 4S Ranch this weekend did not look like deers in headlights when the throw ins were aimed at their heads and surprised parents did not come to blows over this. I saw some very upset parents upon hearing the coach.
 
Monkey said:
I agree that it is minutiae except for when a coach is telling his players to intentionally hit the heads of their opponents on throw ins. I am glad you refs have creative ways to deal with this. Just wish those poor kids at 4S Ranch this weekend did not look like deers in headlights when the throw ins were aimed at their heads and surprised parents did not come to blows over this. I saw some very upset parents upon hearing the coach.
Click to expand...
In calling it minutiae, was referring to and quoted this post about intentional headers, not the situation you describe:
wildcat66 said:
Is a player obligated to move to avoid the header? In other word does a player have to move towards the ball if order for it to be an intentional header or simply not move and let the ball hit their head?
Click to expand...
 
Monkey said:
I agree that it is minutiae except for when a coach is telling his players to intentionally hit the heads of their opponents on throw ins. I am glad you refs have creative ways to deal with this. Just wish those poor kids at 4S Ranch this weekend did not look like deers in headlights when the throw ins were aimed at their heads and surprised parents did not come to blows over this. I saw some very upset parents upon hearing the coach.
Click to expand...
as i said, if i saw a coach telling his/her players to intentionally throw a ball at an opponents head, i would remove them from the game. if i saw a u-little player doing it on their own, it's an immediate stoppage, a stern lecture, and if it happens again, it would be yellow, possibly red. it's a shame this is happening with these games, because that's where there are some very young and inexperienced referees. hopefully the associations will speak about this through email, or at meetings. it can't be tolerated.
 
Monkey said:
I agree that it is minutiae except for when a coach is telling his players to intentionally hit the heads of their opponents on throw ins. I am glad you refs have creative ways to deal with this. Just wish those poor kids at 4S Ranch this weekend did not look like deers in headlights when the throw ins were aimed at their heads and surprised parents did not come to blows over this. I saw some very upset parents upon hearing the coach.
Click to expand...
Name the coach and team so that other parents can make an informed decision.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top