Opinions?
- Thread starter so cal
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It's more important to the good ol' boys club at US Soccer to make sure that they and their friends continue to be employed than have a good national team. Anyone don't believe me? Why is Berhalter still the coach despite the team performing worse than before he took the job? Isn't his brother high up in US Soccer??? Isn't Cordeiro buddy-buddy with Gulati?
Other federations are more corrupt than ours, but they at least have the benefit of having soccer be a national pastime, which means they'll have more talent than they know what to do with.
Other federations are more corrupt than ours, but they at least have the benefit of having soccer be a national pastime, which means they'll have more talent than they know what to do with.
Article is obviously and painfully spot on to anyone familiar with and knowledgeable about soccer in SoCal. To put it bluntly - there is more talent, passion and creativity in a Sunday youth league game in Santa Ana than in an official DA showcase match. Accessibility isn't just about pay-per-play. It's also about controlling the market and deciding which teams get to play (franchise model vs promotion/relegation). As long as soccer in the US continues to be more about protecting the commercial interests of the few rather than about growing the sport, we will lag behind.
Justus
GOLD
https://www.soccerwire.com/news/u-s...r-girls-development-academy-directors-course/
"The candidates could learn as well from some of the most experienced individuals in European football: the course included a trip to England that allowed the participants to absorb and interact with representatives from both English clubs and the FA."
I would suggest a trip to Brazil, Argentina and maybe go to Mexico for a few days to absorb and interact with those clubs
"The candidates could learn as well from some of the most experienced individuals in European football: the course included a trip to England that allowed the participants to absorb and interact with representatives from both English clubs and the FA."
I would suggest a trip to Brazil, Argentina and maybe go to Mexico for a few days to absorb and interact with those clubs
dk_b
GOLD
I really look forward to this article. I have said for a while that there is a ton of youth talent in the Sunday park with kids playing against men and getting the shit kicked out of them while they dazzle with creativity and a knowledge of the game that is well beyond their years. Up here in the Bay Area, go to parts of Richmond or San Jose or a number of places in between and you will see what you see in other areas where the soccer culture reigns supreme over the suburban sports culture.
But let's not kid ourselves that it is easy to scout that talent without a certain level of sacrifice - you need a high volume at the younger ages and unless you have a "soft landing" as the numbers get smaller and smaller, you get kids who are discarded (I often think about how we don't really know about the 14yo Spanish or German or English star who peaks at 16 and then never plays again - in their systems, of course there are kids like that). That said, I'd love to see US Soccer do the difficult work of actually going to where the talent is rather than relying on DA clubs (that may be prohibitive for any number of reasons - cost, geography, culture, home obligations) and then figuring out HOW to give opportunities to the kids who have been overlooked for decades.
justneededaname
SILVER ELITE
This is one place where I do have to give credit to Surf (San Diego). Their coaches are always at the Sunday leagues looking for players. And they give out a ton of scholarships to get those kids on their teams. From their U6 coach bringing his littles to the Sunday leagues to play, to their U15 DA coach when he was looking to rebuild this year. Their intentions are not altruistic. They are looking to build winning teams, so they can attract more paying suburban parents to their brand. But regardless, they are out there trying to find those gems.
The reason it operates this way is because US club soccer is a business that is geared selling parents on college admissions and scholarships. That's the market: upper middle class families looking to get their kids into college. That's how the clubs make their money. They won't reform because they want to protect their money stream (as any business would).
We don't have a system that creates professionals. That's not the goal. Future professionals are not the ones that the clubs are selling to. Future professionals are not the ones the system is built for (otherwise, we wouldn't have kids waste 4 years of their prime development on the limited training they get in college, where the season isn't long enough, the training isn't robust enough, and the competition is strong enough to produce pros except on the girl's side, where the quality of the rest of the world has been lagging and which in the absence of competition from gridiron football tends to pull the best athletes).
The MLS hasn't helped. It's primary interest (as evidence by the latest entrance of Sacramento into the fold) is to keep the giant Ponzi scheme going. Salaries, because of the caps, are not high enough to tempt upper middle class kids away from the college track or away from more lucrative sports opportunities. And as the article points out, Latino working class kids with soccer dreams have other options like Liga MX without the barriers of having to work your way up the DA system.
Given the recent performance of our youngers national teams, we aren't doing too badly with the under 18s. Where the drop off tends to occur is after age 20 because there is nothing in the system that bridges youth development into professionalism. But the system was set up to nurture and protect the MLS, so that's what we are stuck with.
We don't have a system that creates professionals. That's not the goal. Future professionals are not the ones that the clubs are selling to. Future professionals are not the ones the system is built for (otherwise, we wouldn't have kids waste 4 years of their prime development on the limited training they get in college, where the season isn't long enough, the training isn't robust enough, and the competition is strong enough to produce pros except on the girl's side, where the quality of the rest of the world has been lagging and which in the absence of competition from gridiron football tends to pull the best athletes).
The MLS hasn't helped. It's primary interest (as evidence by the latest entrance of Sacramento into the fold) is to keep the giant Ponzi scheme going. Salaries, because of the caps, are not high enough to tempt upper middle class kids away from the college track or away from more lucrative sports opportunities. And as the article points out, Latino working class kids with soccer dreams have other options like Liga MX without the barriers of having to work your way up the DA system.
Given the recent performance of our youngers national teams, we aren't doing too badly with the under 18s. Where the drop off tends to occur is after age 20 because there is nothing in the system that bridges youth development into professionalism. But the system was set up to nurture and protect the MLS, so that's what we are stuck with.
https://www.soccerwire.com/news/u-s...r-girls-development-academy-directors-course/
"The candidates could learn as well from some of the most experienced individuals in European football: the course included a trip to England that allowed the participants to absorb and interact with representatives from both English clubs and the FA."
I would suggest a trip to Brazil, Argentina and maybe go to Mexico for a few days to absorb and interact with those clubs
Not sure sending them to Mexico for training is the right place unless you are looking for them to learn how to not pay their players any salaries and how to deal with the on field protest that gave up two goals (Vera Cruz). Learning how to remove a drug lords son from the stadium which caused fights and protests and ended up in 8 deaths (Dorado Sinoloa), controlling fan fighting where 37 people were injured with pipes and metal objects int the stands (San Luis v. Queretaro). All just in about a weeks time. Just saying Liga MX is not a tight ship right now. Although El Chapo's son was at a second tier match so....
Justus
GOLD
Oh yes, very scary place to learn how to play the game as a youth. Del Mar and Norco have their own challenges but not El Chapo
Sheriff Joe
DA
Build that wall.
Justus
GOLD
Sorry Joe, that's not my fight here at the SoCal Soccer Forum. I suggest you write Fox News and their competition CNN and tell them your complaint. Right now, I'm trying to find out why USSF has no Latinos on the Task force except their brother Landon. We need more Latin blood Sheriff in the USSF
CopaMundial
SILVER ELITE
That's on the boys side. On girls side, Surf got hella lucky with Macario showing up and having a Brazilian family on the team to make her feel comfortable. Made for easy transition. Now Surf touts, "homegrown or developedhere". Which I love homegrown players, but those talents aren't accurate if they show up at 13, are they?
As for boys, it's much easier for coaches to recruit out of Mexican and Sunday Leagues, but there are a handful of girls that play and they will never get recruited to club. Some are not so good, but some are amazing. Either way, they will be overlooked. For girls, you have to play club and conform. The game, as is the politics.
oh canada
GOLD
Article is spot on. Could write the same about the girls too. Not only does US Soccer insist you play at their academies, but they also require you to play their 4-3-3 formation, practice in their methods exclusively, not play any outside soccer or futsal, not play any other sports, etc. Surprised they don't yet have a requirement stating that you can only watch MLS. Any creative players coming into the DA system are quickly coached out of it by men who think Chipotle is authentic Mexican food. Here's to the future vanilla cookie=cutter players coming to a stadium near you.
You want to see diversity? Take a look at Canada's...
https://www.canadasoccer.com/men-s-national-team-p144311#CANMNT (scroll down after clicking)
You want to see diversity? Take a look at Canada's...
https://www.canadasoccer.com/men-s-national-team-p144311#CANMNT (scroll down after clicking)
El Clasico
GOLD
So that I understand you correctly. When they needed to rebuild their U15 DA team this year, rather than pull from their DPL team, or their 40 other teams that wear the Surf Jersey who they have been "developing and grooming" on their "pathway" for this opportunity, they went looking for talent at the Sunday leagues?? Most of which learned how to play only by playing or with the guidance of a parent coach, likely with no coaching license at all. Anybody else see a problem here? And we wonder why we can't get our sh*t together on the field. With Surf (and others) gobbling up all the smaller clubs to grow their business, they soon will run out of places to look for talent because they aren't finding it within.
Canada's men's team is more diverse because it's middle class is more diverse (a legacy of the Empire and US slavery)...also they have a similar issue to a competing sport (hockey) except because it's more expense than soccer hockey tends to pull the white kids....in the US the African American community has deep roots in gridiron football and since it's a route to college scholarships you have the pull there.
There are two questions: why did we lose to Canada, and why with such a large soccer base can't we compete with the premiere socer powers. They are two separate questions, a short term and a long term problem. We lost to Canada for 2 main reasons: 1. because the USMNT is being asked to play a complicated possession style game with set pieces they weren't brought up playing and haven't had enough time together to practice, and 2. the USMNT with anchor starters having or aging out and new anchors like Pulisic underperforming is a team still in transition. Look at 2 of the key roles (both of whom qualify as "diverse"). At striker, one of our options is Zardes, who has had a rocky career leading to his ultimately being dropped by the Galaxy, is a bit of a one trick wonder striker lacking creative play and basically playing for opportunities to score, and has no business playing on the international stage. The only reason he's on the USMNT is because he knows the system, and that's why he's been brought on. His best performance to date was a Scott Sterling moment. Or look at our keeper, Steffen, who is not what we would call a sweeper keeper, and primarily was been asked to play on his line by his home club. Steffen has been caught numerous times out of position in order to support the attacking play and doesn't have a whole lot of experience building from the back and is still very young to boot.
The long term problem is just simply why aren't we better. The answer to that is college ball and that we don't have a bridge from youth to professional soccer, and the best we have for professionalism is the MLS. In fact, Canada and the US have the same problem when it comes to the MLS. Canada has slightly more players playing in Europe and Latin America. Their looser immigration and tax systems probably help with that. But the Canadian football association has complained, and recently published a discussion paper, that they are living under the MLS's shadow. They want to be structured like small nations like Croatia or Iceland, with academies in their major cities, but can't because the MLS dominates their academy systems and many of their players are locked in to pay to play clubs chasing US and Canadian college opportunities. Some Canadians are advocating the creation of a Canada only league, but with the MLS already in place, it's almost impossible to do.
Chalklines
GOLD
Would rather deal with El Chapo then some of these parents.Oh yes, very scary place to learn how to play the game as a youth. Del Mar and Norco have their own challenges but not El Chapo
oh canada
GOLD
You seem to know a lot about Canadian soccer? Agree with some of the above, but let me help with a couple. First, Canada was no slavery saint. For 200 years, slave owning was widespread in the colonies and despite it becoming the last stop on the underground railroad, slavery in Canada was banned only 30 years prior to Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. So I don't buy your history reason for the diversity of Canada's soccer program now.
Second, It is true that hockey is a white sport in Canada, but the Canadian Football Federation has put forth diversity efforts for several years now and that is beginning to show. US Soccer has not. A commitment to futsal has also helped as it is an indoor sport and one that can be played at school gymnasiums in urban (read diverse) areas throughout the country, then becoming a pipeline to the outdoor game. Does US even have a futsal team? Canada is 73% white (US is 78%), so statistically there is not much of a difference. But if you look at actual numbers of minorities playing soccer in US (actual headcount), there are millions more to choose from, if you desire.
U.S. Soccer’s current dominion over soccer arose after Congress passed the Amateur Sports Act in 1978. The law allows the United States Olympic Committee to designate a “national governing body” with exclusive oversight rights for every sport that participates in the Olympics. This makes sense for some sports: It’s one thing for the federal government to turn over sole governance rights for sports with limited participants, followers and financial prospects. But such a regime is inapt for soccer, the world’s most popular and lucrative sport. Soccer is “amateur” in name only, and it is too important a sport, particularly for women and other minorities, for Congress to hand off to an organization immune from both competition and meaningful government oversight—not to mention, one dominated by men. That is the problem.
justneededaname
SILVER ELITE
Yes. Truth hurts. If any of those kids were good enough for the DA they would have been on the DA years previously. Parents on B-D teams need to realize they are just paying the bills.
I don't know how it works in LA, but in San Diego, almost all of the kids playing in the City Heights and Vista Sunday leagues play on club teams (Chula Vista, Rebels, Atlante, Hotspurs, etc). The nice thing about the Sunday league is they are all in one place at one time so it is easy to scout them.
foreveryoung
SILVER ELITE
This assumes that Surf are perfect at talent identification. They may have players in their club with better long term potential but overlook them for what can help them just win games at the U15 level. Another short-sighted strategy that plagues our youth development system.
Don't know too much about your last point so I'll pass on it. Don't get me wrong...I do think that diversity is an issue with recruiting the best talent....my son plays on a team currently that is split 50% minority and 50% white so I get to see the issues first hand (though having a policy of not writing about my son's current team, I can't really get into it). But I will say: 1) the issue of being pay to play as a barrier to Latino involvement is vastly overstated....there are plenty of Latinos playing club ball and various organizations (including our dear friend Luis') that cater to this particular community, but 2) in hitting the higher levels there is definitely a financial barrier since you are competing with kids that can afford camps and trainers, and pay for the tournaments, driving and intermediate costs it takes to get up to those levels, so you have to be all the more talented to get there. Getting the kids to and from soccer practice (finding someone to drive if both parents work, or having a reliable vehicle) is much more of an obstacle than club fees, particularly as you get into the higher levels where driving distances increase away from local community-based clubs. In the African American community, particularly in the south, gridiron football is still dominant, and there are simply more college scholarship opportunities in gridiron football than men's soccer to make a significant dent there. I agree the US could benefit from an increase diversity scouting problem, but that's not the main driver of the problem. Middle class white boys can play soccer too (see Iceland) and we should have enough of them to make a dominant USMNT...but yes I also agree it would be nice if the team was diverse (it's just not the heart of the problem for why the US fails).
I love futsal, and you are right that futsal works in Canada because of the cold weather. Yes, we do have a futsal national team. Our local big club recently asked our school board to convert a tennis court into a futsal court in middle school. They sold it as the kids could use it in school too and they'd pick up most of the cost in return for preferential rentals. That club is pretty much the only one that uses it (and then only if it rains....particularly useful during tryout season). The futsal court is too far to the outside of the campus to be used by middle schoolers during recess (given the chaperone problem). In Spain, most of their free play is on futsal courts (but that leads to issues in Spain's game such as goalkeepers using their feet too much to block and other teams countering their possession soccer with pressing and long ball games....Spain's recent struggles can be traced back to futsal right now, at least in part). Futsal is great for developing passing, game IQ, and speed of play. It should be part of our formula, but again it's not the heart of the problem.