Let's Rework State CUp

Riggins

BRONZE
This year, once again, has me thinking that State Cup is just ridiculous. Why do we take everyone of one age group and have them all drive out to a single site? All of Cal South B06 headed to Lancaster for a weekend. Then, even worse, if you advance you get to head back to Lancaster for possibly one single game. For our team that is 3 hours of driving each way.

So, how do we fix this? Well, why do we do like the college basketball? You compete more locally to determine a "Sectional Champion". Once that is complete you travel a bit further for Regional Finals. Finally, there is the big trip to the capital for the State Championship.

Consider the state broken up into sections like this. In one weekend everyone plays sectionals closer to home. Just like a normal weekend tournament. Maybe 8 teams in a section. Then the next weekend it is a new tournament. Regionals. Maybe its 16 teams and straight bracket play. Only teams losing in the first round get a consolation game so they are traveling for "one and done". That round could be at the bigger locations like Lancaster, Silver Lakes, Galloway, or the OC Great Park. Finally, the State Championship.

Seems to me this would be better in a number of ways. First, there are intermediate "champions". When my school won Sectionals we would hang a banner in the rafters. It was a big deal. Regionals even more important. Going to State, wow, that was an huge deal. It would be nice to get that building excitement into State Cup.

I'm sure there are other solutions, but making everyone drive to sites that are simply terrible this time of year -- Lancaster and their 30mph winds -- seems like the wrong plan.
 
Great idea!!! It’s ridiculous that so many games are played in that crappy venue!
 
So with this plan the teams play the same teams that they see in league play and local tournaments. Hardly a "State Cup" experience.

From what I've seen, the kids like the trips. Its the parents (like me) that gripe about going to the high desert. Thankfully, my daughter is older and doesn't seem to have to play there anymore. We even did Apple Valley one time. Long drive to a sleepy town with crappy fields. Is state cup there anymore?

Still, I'd rather have done that than have the team play the same local teams we saw all the time.
 
It isn't necessarily the same exact teams. There are several different leagues. For example, my son plays in SCDSL but there is also Coast League in the area. None the less, if you did the Sectionals, then yeah, it could be some of the same teams. You could say they are your "rivals". You need to be the best in your section to move on.

But, like I said, there could be other plans. For example, jump straight to Regionals. Not quite as "close to home" but still probably nothing more than an hour drive for most people. You have more diverse competition and still the extra level of "Regional Champion". Maybe Regionals is a two weekend affair to get all the games in. If you had 8 regions in Cal South that would be enough to seed a good State Cup. With 8 teams State Cup can be two pools of four with the pool winners making the finals. Or brackets. Either would work fine.

Even if nothing else changes, pick good facilities! Lancaster is just in the middle of nowhere with terrible weather/wind this time of year. Gallaway doesn't even have grass on their fields. At the very least, the teams that make it out of pool play should get to go somewhere with good fields and facilities.
 
While I like the idea, are there enough large (nice) venues to handle the number of games to support this?
Silverlakes is 1:30 hours from us but a good venue.
Oceanside (SoCal soccer complex) is 2:15 - 3:00 hours but also a good venue.
Galway Downs, I think only the Millennium Falcon will make it in less than 12 parsecs. Good venue in the past but I've heard its getting run down.

What else is further West/North that can handle even a fraction of the games?
 
Lancaster is part of the initiation of club Soccer my friend. Nearly everyone passes through there, or as the last poster says, Apple Valley. Going to those crapholes is a rite of passage, and parents (including me) have complained about them forever. But the kids don’t mind staying at the flea bag in as long as they can hang out together for 48 straight hours.

I remember one state cup in a Apple Valley, maybe 7-8 years ago out there in February and the field was frosted with ice, and with the wind it felt like it was in the teens.

I agree with the sentiment already said. It’s the parents that complain. But these are the same parents that like to brag to their coworkers and post on Facebook their kid is playing “State Cup.”

Truth is, it’s already set up to as a regional. An hour drive is lucky. There are teams like eagles or real SoCal that have to drive to play Albion, Surf, or Galaxy’s SD on a weekly basis. That’s 2.5 in the car especially when Del Mar races are running. Of course that occurs vice versa.

You think this is bad? Play ENCL where you have league games in other states, and the games are on Sundays.

DA also forces you to travel between NorCal and SoCal and play showcases that are all over. The boys from all over the country just came to LA Galaxy for a showcase I believe last weekend.

If you want it any more localized, consider playing AYSO.
 
Does anybody know what it would take for CalSouth to consider any changes? Who at CalSouth would be the person to reach out to on this? Would a petition help them to look at changes? Do they only listen to club presidents? League Presidents? Do they talk to end users / families?
Do they even know that 90% of participants (players, parents, coaches) think that the current format of State Cup in CA is terrible? (I totally made up that 90% number. But there isn't one person I've ever spoken with about the current format that doesn't have some type of criticism). Or do they see that participation is even or up year over year, so why change things?
I don't have the venues that much. There are a lot of teams from LA and Central Coast that make the trek down this way. I've been to Lancaster, Norco, Galway Downs and Oceanside. While I'd love to play at the Great Park, I realize you can't please everyone when we live in an area where traffic stinks and land is scarce. (Heck - lots of people on this board drive to Vegas in January for Vegas Cup too).
My biggest issue with State Cup is the timing. I'd like to see it played before the end of December (before teams break up) or in the Spring (after new teams are formed and have been together for a bit).
I've got a slow day at work and I am going to gather some info on when most other states have their State Cup competition.
A quick google search shows the following:
Arizona - Starts April 20 and only for 12u and above
Nevada - Appears they have a Winter season as a qualifier and then the finals are April 21-22
Oregon - Looks like they play in November for u11-u14. And Spring for u15-u19
South Texas - Open Bracket/Play in games are April 7/8. April 28 starts "District Play" with the finals on Memorial Day weekend
Illinois - May 12 starts the group play. Finals are Memorial Day weekend.
 
Does anybody know what it would take for CalSouth to consider any changes? Who at CalSouth would be the person to reach out to on this? Would a petition help them to look at changes? Do they only listen to club presidents? League Presidents? Do they talk to end users / families?
Do they even know that 90% of participants (players, parents, coaches) think that the current format of State Cup in CA is terrible? (I totally made up that 90% number. But there isn't one person I've ever spoken with about the current format that doesn't have some type of criticism). Or do they see that participation is even or up year over year, so why change things?
I don't have the venues that much. There are a lot of teams from LA and Central Coast that make the trek down this way. I've been to Lancaster, Norco, Galway Downs and Oceanside. While I'd love to play at the Great Park, I realize you can't please everyone when we live in an area where traffic stinks and land is scarce. (Heck - lots of people on this board drive to Vegas in January for Vegas Cup too).
My biggest issue with State Cup is the timing. I'd like to see it played before the end of December (before teams break up) or in the Spring (after new teams are formed and have been together for a bit).
I've got a slow day at work and I am going to gather some info on when most other states have their State Cup competition.
A quick google search shows the following:
Arizona - Starts April 20 and only for 12u and above
Nevada - Appears they have a Winter season as a qualifier and then the finals are April 21-22
Oregon - Looks like they play in November for u11-u14. And Spring for u15-u19
South Texas - Open Bracket/Play in games are April 7/8. April 28 starts "District Play" with the finals on Memorial Day weekend
Illinois - May 12 starts the group play. Finals are Memorial Day weekend.

How many of those places have boys or girls single-year brackets with over 100 teams in the opening field? Cal South made changes a few years back to split State Cup into three levels, but even after that many age groups go to a Round of 64 after the opening weekend.

As for Lancaster, any locale that wants to bump it from consideration first has to construct a facility with over 30 fields.
 
Sectional play is probably the best idea. Never forget having to drive to Lancaster to watch the u9 A team play the u9 B team from the same club, had to play each other at 8:30 am not a happy group of parents.
 
Sectional play is probably the best idea. Never forget having to drive to Lancaster to watch the u9 A team play the u9 B team from the same club, had to play each other at 8:30 am not a happy group of parents.


Oh yes. Or when three south OC or SD teams travel to Lancaster.

Hotel money is also part of the consideration. Lancaster was smart. Real estate was cheap and they created an enormous facility years ago.
 
How many of those places have boys or girls single-year brackets with over 100 teams in the opening field? Cal South made changes a few years back to split State Cup into three levels, but even after that many age groups go to a Round of 64 after the opening weekend.

As for Lancaster, any locale that wants to bump it from consideration first has to construct a facility with over 30 fields.
It seems that many of those states don't start State Cup until u11 or u12.
I'll look closer, but I don't know that other states have as many tiers for state cup as we do either.
 
I agree, it's ridiculous. Lancaster, Apple Valley in the winter is laughable for soccer. Worst conditions you'll ever play in.

So why play in CalSouth's State Cup? Because everyone else is?

It's a crappy tournament, with crappy seeding, at crappy venues, that goes on way too long, at a time of the year after tryouts have already happened (which causes its own problems).

It would only take a few top clubs to make the decision that they will end their season just prior to tryouts and their teams will skip State Cup for the whole thing to unravel.
 
The "State" in "State Cup" has always bugged me, too. It's really Southern California, there is no statewide competition.

Just like the "O" in "ODP" stands for "Olympic". (eyeroll). Also the "D" as there is no development.
 
The "State" in "State Cup" has always bugged me, too. It's really Southern California, there is no statewide competition.

Just like the "O" in "ODP" stands for "Olympic". (eyeroll). Also the "D" as there is no development.

Imagine how many complaints there would be if the opening rounds were in Fresno or Redding.

There were some supposed "State Championships" foisted on the youth soccer public a few years ago, with entrants from both north and south. It turned out to be the CSL champion against an equivalent league from the Bay Area.

Cal South was created after after it was obvious that all of California was too big in area and population to administer, especially for things like State tournaments. Other states are split as well, such as Texas, New York, and (for reasons I don't understand, since the whole state is small than Cal South) Ohio.
 
The other down side to this is certain areas or regions would have weaker teams than others. South OC for instance would be stacked with high level teams and high desert or further away areas for example may have less teams or lower level. So you wouldn’t have exactly even competition . Or you may have one dominant area team that will blow everyone out
 
At least now there are alternatives to Lancaster. It used to be that everyone had to go to Lancaster or Apple Valley. Now the older players (who travel more anyway at the upper levels) get to play closer to the coast.
 
The other down side to this is certain areas or regions would have weaker teams than others. South OC for instance would be stacked with high level teams and high desert or further away areas for example may have less teams or lower level. So you wouldn’t have exactly even competition . Or you may have one dominant area team that will blow everyone out

Don't count out some of those teams from further North and East. President's 04 had 8 of the sweet 16 from outside of OC. Some big, strong, fast girls out there. They played decent soccer too. Maybe not connecting 10 passes in a row, but nothing different than you see from an OC team that has one or 2 dominant physical players.
Surprised to see Coachella Valley lose yesterday.
 
Does anybody know what it would take for CalSouth to consider any changes? Who at CalSouth would be the person to reach out to on this? Would a petition help them to look at changes? Do they only listen to club presidents? League Presidents? Do they talk to end users / families?
Do they even know that 90% of participants (players, parents, coaches) think that the current format of State Cup in CA is terrible? (I totally made up that 90% number. But there isn't one person I've ever spoken with about the current format that doesn't have some type of criticism). Or do they see that participation is even or up year over year, so why change things?
I don't have the venues that much. There are a lot of teams from LA and Central Coast that make the trek down this way. I've been to Lancaster, Norco, Galway Downs and Oceanside. While I'd love to play at the Great Park, I realize you can't please everyone when we live in an area where traffic stinks and land is scarce. (Heck - lots of people on this board drive to Vegas in January for Vegas Cup too).
My biggest issue with State Cup is the timing. I'd like to see it played before the end of December (before teams break up) or in the Spring (after new teams are formed and have been together for a bit).
I've got a slow day at work and I am going to gather some info on when most other states have their State Cup competition.
A quick google search shows the following:
Arizona - Starts April 20 and only for 12u and above
Nevada - Appears they have a Winter season as a qualifier and then the finals are April 21-22
Oregon - Looks like they play in November for u11-u14. And Spring for u15-u19
South Texas - Open Bracket/Play in games are April 7/8. April 28 starts "District Play" with the finals on Memorial Day weekend
Illinois - May 12 starts the group play. Finals are Memorial Day weekend.
None of the states you list are remotely as large as Cal South itself. Those formats wouldn't work in Southern CA. Every state does the State Cup portion differently. There is no one model that would work for everyone.
Two things to remember. This is all about a massive revenue source for Cal South and as soon as you cut out everyone under the age of 12 they all complain that they aren't getting to be part of State Cup. It's really the only thing that all of the teams from all of the leagues get to play in so why is that so bad?
Second - State Cup will always play in Lancaster because Cal South is financially invested in that complex. If I remember correctly, it's the only venue where the keep all of the parking revenue too.
The tack a $2 parking fee on to the other venues but they keep all (or most) of the fees collected in Lancaster.
 
None of the states you list are remotely as large as Cal South itself. Those formats wouldn't work in Southern CA. Every state does the State Cup portion differently. There is no one model that would work for everyone.
Two things to remember. This is all about a massive revenue source for Cal South and as soon as you cut out everyone under the age of 12 they all complain that they aren't getting to be part of State Cup. It's really the only thing that all of the teams from all of the leagues get to play in so why is that so bad?
Second - State Cup will always play in Lancaster because Cal South is financially invested in that complex. If I remember correctly, it's the only venue where the keep all of the parking revenue too.
The tack a $2 parking fee on to the other venues but they keep all (or most) of the fees collected in Lancaster.

I never heard that before.
 
Don't count out some of those teams from further North and East. President's 04 had 8 of the sweet 16 from outside of OC. Some big, strong, fast girls out there. They played decent soccer too. Maybe not connecting 10 passes in a row, but nothing different than you see from an OC team that has one or 2 dominant physical players.
Surprised to see Coachella Valley lose yesterday.
I wasn’t counting out any area just making up a scenario. Certain areas have better teams then others or maybe more competition in Closer proximity.
 
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