Is it all recruiting?

timbuck

timbuck

There's a team that many of us love to hate. And others love to love them.
They win a ton of games at all levels.
Some will say they are really good at recruiting. But at some point, they've got to be more than just recruiters. They have to be better than average at coaching too, right?
I have a few friends with kids on their teams, but I haven't really watched them play.

Can someone in the know explain how their 25 teams (2008 thru u18 ECNL) are a collective 77-25-16 over 118 games?
And their 2008-2004 teams are 43-3-9 so far.

Hate all you want. It's hard to argue with their results.
 
hmmmmm.....looks like the youngers are successful.........and their olders have gotten recruited away from other clubs.........just saying ......... i believe a coach should be able to recruit, do his or her job to develop their new found talent, and the club should provide another quality coach to take that group to the next level at the next age group and so on......
 
timbuck said:
There's a team that many of us love to hate. And others love to love them.
They win a ton of games at all levels.
Some will say they are really good at recruiting. But at some point, they've got to be more than just recruiters. They have to be better than average at coaching too, right?
I have a few friends with kids on their teams, but I haven't really watched them play.

Can someone in the know explain how their 25 teams (2008 thru u18 ECNL) are a collective 77-25-16 over 118 games?
And their 2008-2004 teams are 43-3-9 so far.

Hate all you want. It's hard to argue with their results.
Click to expand...

I spend more time than I should on this forum, but not enough to know which club you're referring to. I can think of a couple that this might describe. Now I'm curious to know which one...
 
timbuck said:
There's a team that many of us love to hate. And others love to love them.
They win a ton of games at all levels.
Some will say they are really good at recruiting. But at some point, they've got to be more than just recruiters. They have to be better than average at coaching too, right?
I have a few friends with kids on their teams, but I haven't really watched them play.

Can someone in the know explain how their 25 teams (2008 thru u18 ECNL) are a collective 77-25-16 over 118 games?
And their 2008-2004 teams are 43-3-9 so far.

Hate all you want. It's hard to argue with their results.
Click to expand...
I have only seen them at the 02 level, a bunch of super athletes and pretty good soccer players IMHO. Not a fan of how the coach acts on the side lines.
 
As I work through the system I don't see the rivalries anymore. Maybe I am not involving myself at that level because I am focused on my player and whether she can grow within the system we have placed her in. My friends are choosing clubs based on coaches and how their girls like the environment. At the u littles level I remember having that rivalry. Now it's rare that I cannot look at a Beach, CDA, Arsenal team and say wow that player is talented.
Some coaches are able to get more out of kids. It's personality too. I hear DS at WCFC is top notch as well.
I would be fibbing I Didn't mention that I would jump at the chance to have my daughter play for TB,BB,RD.
I guess what I am trying to say is the older I get the less I know !
 
Striker17 said:
As I work through the system I don't see the rivalries anymore. Maybe I am not involving myself at that level because I am focused on my player and whether she can grow within the system we have placed her in. My friends are choosing clubs based on coaches and how their girls like the environment. At the u littles level I remember having that rivalry. Now it's rare that I cannot look at a Beach, CDA, Arsenal team and say wow that player is talented.
Some coaches are able to get more out of kids. It's personality too. I hear DS at WCFC is top notch as well.
I would be fibbing I Didn't mention that I would jump at the chance to have my daughter play for TB,BB,RD.
I guess what I am trying to say is the older I get the less I know !
Click to expand...

Smart to be focused on your player. You have a mixed list there. Not sure who BB is unless you are talking about a duo but only one other on that list would I let my kid play for. I'm just sayin.
 
No and there is no “talent shortage" either. Comes down to talent with good coaching working hard as a team with a tactical system they know that works well.

They are good because what they do is valuable. parent value "winners" and go the "extra" mile or hour or spend more time or $ on soccer than the average bear.

Everyone knows the best way to get "popular" is to do something that either rare or highly valued.

If you can increase the value of what you offer and nobody else can match that your value goes up.

The other values they offer for exposure, college recruiting, and playing is hard to match so they have plenty of talent to choose from all the time and don't need to recruit as much as others.

The boys side used to have clubs like this (TFA for example) at the younger ages before the affiliated model took over and they didn't have to compete with a broader range of more well-financed operations or those that could offer more value like the DA clubs.
 
Why don't you all man up and quit being vaginas and say their names no one's going to take offense Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and frankly those coaches probably aren't concerned with your minut opinions anyway they're going to do what they're going to do
 
I was referring to the Blues in my original post. But maybe this could be relevant for several teams.
They recruit hard. And don't mind cutting a player. They get top talent.
But they must also have pretty good coaches, right? I don't hear much about their coaches. And I hear lots of negative stuff about the way they operare. But they are the premier club for girls soccer in OC (maybe even for the entire country).
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.
 
timbuck....One of my best friends has a couple kids at the Blues, one plays for the Baker Bros. He has told me on multiple occassions that he has felt that they have stepped WAY over the line in regards to the berating, belittling and the flat out emotional distress they cause. But yet they have stayed there because the team is incredibly successful and they know the exposure the team gets is invaluable for her goal of playing in college and possibly the WNT. And his daughter wants to stay and fight for her spot inspite of what the BB say to her because she feels it's "best for her future".

The environment on that team is "you better perform otherwise you are gone because I've got 100 kids available to me that would kill for your starting spot". Is that the best environment for creating a winning team? I don't know, but it sure works for them! That team losses a game about once a year.

I've seen their training sessions and it's not like they are doing anything "cutting edge" to get these girls to drastically improve their skills. It's pretty standard stuff. But just about every girl on that team is doing privates because they know if they do not continue to improve they will lose their spot. That competetive environment makes everyone work extremely hard and raises everyone's level of play.

So if you get 100 girls to tryout and you narrow it down to the 20 most competetive and talented girls for the team and then create
an environment in which everyone is working extremely hard to get even better and fighting for their spot on the team, I think you have a recipe for success.
 
timbuck said:
I was referring to the Blues in my original post. But maybe this could be relevant for several teams.
They recruit hard. And don't mind cutting a player. They get top talent.
But they must also have pretty good coaches, right? I don't hear much about their coaches. And I hear lots of negative stuff about the way they operare. But they are the premier club for girls soccer in OC (maybe even for the entire country).
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.
Click to expand...

I think Blues is the only all girls club that exist right now in So Cal. This makes them special. Watching them over the years, they don't have the best coaches, but they do have good coaches coaching in the age level they should be in. They draw top talent because of their reputation, facilities and game circuit. They also recognized for college and national commitments. They also very good in developing they recruited players.
I'm not affiliated with them, just know few coaches and players and have been watching them play for many years.
 
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.[/QUOTE]

You have an odd fascination with the Blues. Why?

BarcaLover said:
timbuck....One of my best friends has a couple kids at the Blues, one plays for the Baker Bros. He has told me on multiple occassions that he has felt that they have stepped WAY over the line in regards to the berating, belittling and the flat out emotional distress they cause. But yet they have stayed there because the team is incredibly successful and they know the exposure the team gets is invaluable for her goal of playing in college and possibly the WNT. And his daughter wants to stay and fight for her spot inspite of what the BB say to her because she feels it's "best for her future".

The environment on that team is "you better perform otherwise you are gone because I've got 100 kids available to me that would kill for your starting spot". Is that the best environment for creating a winning team? I don't know, but it sure works for them! That team losses a game about once a year.

I've seen their training sessions and it's not like they are doing anything "cutting edge" to get these girls to drastically improve their skills. It's pretty standard stuff. But just about every girl on that team is doing privates because they know if they do not continue to improve they will lose their spot. That competetive environment makes everyone work extremely hard and raises everyone's level of play.

So if you get 100 girls to tryout and you narrow it down to the 20 most competetive and talented girls for the team and then create
an environment in which everyone is working extremely hard to get even better and fighting for their spot on the team, I think you have a recipe for success.
Click to expand...

THe DA mandates that DA coaches also take developmental teams. I haven't seen this on the boys side I have never seen a Boys DA coach have a second team- maybe it's happening elsewhere?
The reason I ask is if that is true and those top level coaches at clubs have to take a second team I do wonder what will happen.
 
I think this club has a few things going for it that might be helping recruit top girls year after year. I am sure all of these can be debated, but the view from me:
1) It is an all-girls club with no lower tier, poor teams . For the most part, if you are playing a Blues team, you are likely going to play a quality side. This gives the girls a sense of pride in saying they play for Blues that may not be there for some other clubs with tier 3 or lower tier 2 teams, or clubs with teams from all over ("which Slammers team are we playing this time...is it the good one from Cerritos, or the really bad one from Huntington Beach?").
2) The younger coaches are really excellent with the girls...they joke with them, play games, offer to dye their hair if the girls win state cup, etc...but they all still treat it like a business at the end of the day. The girls are evaluated by the coaches, including a written analysis of strengths, weaknesses and opportunities each year or multiple times per year. These evaluations also result in the lower performing players leaving each year. This obviously isn't for everyone, but I think it is viewed favorably by those who are committed to soccer from an early age (most of these girls drop other sports at a very young age...which I know can be a completely different debate topic).
3) Parents for the most part buy into the the fact the coaches are excellent evaluators of talent. Even if some of the coaches are not viewed as the best technically, I have rarely heard a parent say "my girls is better than that other girl on the team and should play more". The girls and parents are therefore also more willing to put up with coaches who can sometimes be, in my opinion, too hard on the girls from the sidelines during games.
4) Say what you want about some of the coaches like BB, but they have a history of winning. And winning, or a reputation of winning, attracts good players. Their styles will turn some off, but many see it as a means to an end; play on one of their teams and you will get to college soccer somewhere. For me personally, I don't think I could have my daughter play for some of these coaches, but it is still worth it for many.
 
That's the thing about coaching. It isn't one size fits all. Sounds like they have a formula and it appeals to a certain mindset, a highly competitive mindset where winning is the #1 priority. There will be those that hate on them for that, and those that love them for it. I can appreciate what they are doing, but am not a fan of that model for youth sports in general.
 
Tim, you're a coach. You seem like you know and love soccer. Go watch a few Blues games at different age groups, and I think you will have your answer. That said, maybe my two cents will help.

Obviously recruiting is a big part of what they do. Anyone who has seen Blues coaches in action in parking lots after games or received a recruiting email out of the blue (excuse the pun) can tell you that. I think much of the hostility toward the club comes from people having lost quality players/teammates and friends to Blues due to their aggressive recruiting tactics. Coaches feel cheated when they develop a player for two or three years then lose her to a Blues team. I suppose how you feel about that depends on how you feel about recruiting in club soccer, but all the clubs do it to some extent and it's rare for a great player to stay with one club his/her whole career, so very few clubs can claim credit for one great player's development. For better or worse, it's just part of the game.

As for coaching, all I know is what I've seen from watching their teams play over the last five years or so, mostly at the younger ages, but there definitely seems to be a pattern. Tactically, it's not rocket science. They tend to favor big, fast, athletic girls and put them in a system that exploits these strengths. All their teams seem to be well coached at team pressing and shooting, especially from distance. Speed and hustle are paramount. Also their teams often rely on one or two exceptional players to supply offensive firepower. Anyway, it's basically the Anson Dorrance school of tactics, and as you know that approach has had huge success over the years and continues to be a big influence on the college game. Since many college coaches favor this type of player, that places Blues front and center in the college pipeline. Their success at placing players in college then supports their recruiting and there you have it, the circle of life, Blues style.

So is recruiting a big reason their teams are good? I think it's hard to argue otherwise. Are they great coaches? It depends on your opinion of what makes a great coach. But they have developed a successful system that matches an athletic, high pressure tactical system with their favored player prototype, and whether you love them or hate them, they are obviously very good at what they do.
 
timbuck said:
I was referring to the Blues in my original post. But maybe this could be relevant for several teams.
They recruit hard. And don't mind cutting a player. They get top talent.
But they must also have pretty good coaches, right? I don't hear much about their coaches. And I hear lots of negative stuff about the way they operare. But they are the premier club for girls soccer in OC (maybe even for the entire country).
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.
Click to expand...
TB- you brought about a conversation that most have avoided. Including me. But, its been interesting to hear the many views.
 
ESPNANALYST said:
Is the pressure they put on kids the difference maker? Are kids working so much harder so they get to keep their spot? Are parents investing more time and money into extra training to help their kid keep their spot?
Or do the coaches have something special that the rest of the soccer world is missing?
As I mentioned in my original post, I know several kids that play there today in various age groups. And I know several who washed out from them. A few are still playing. Some quit and probably for a lot more reasons than just the Club or Coach, but it did have some influence.
Not the clubs problem if your kid can't handle it. They don't advertise that they are going to give a warm and fuzzy, "everyone plays" environment.
Click to expand...

You have an odd fascination with the Blues. Why?



THe DA mandates that DA coaches also take developmental teams. I haven't seen this on the boys side I have never seen a Boys DA coach have a second team- maybe it's happening elsewhere?
The reason I ask is if that is true and those top level coaches at clubs have to take a second team I do wonder what will happen.[/QUOTE]

My player took privates from them for about 8-10 months once a week and they helped with her skills. She chose to switch trainers after that time because one of them in particular does not have the proper soft skills for pre teen women. She never played for Blues and has done fine. Tad Bobak is an amazing coach and so is Rob Rennie and Ali M. and many more of their coaches. The Blues organization overall is top notch. Every club has a few less than desirable coaches.

I do believe that you shouldn't have a "one size fits all" approach with coaching. Some kids can handle being coached with the threat of the "stick." Some girls need a "carrot." Some just need to be instructed calmly. Some coaches only have one tool in their toolkit and the best coaches have many.
 
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