Is DA done?

[jpeter]

Has there been any confirmation yet on which age groups will be featured in the new MLS league?

U17+ for sure, with MLS academies desire to have u12+ I would guess they will be the looking to go u11+ like the nplwest league did in fall but no confirmation or details yet. May be a while since is all fluid at the moment.

With USYS sanctioning I suppose they could be national championships and others involved for multiple age groups.

 

[Son]

U17+ for sure, with MLS academies desire to have u12+ I would guess they will be the looking to go u11+ like the nplwest league did in fall but no confirmation or details yet. May be a while since is all fluid at the moment.

With USYS sanctioning I suppose they could be national championships and others involved for multiple age groups.

I thought that was exactly what the MLS teams were trying to avoid. We were told they wanted only U17 and U19 and play only amongst themselves. That's why there were blue division for stronger teams and red division for weaker teams for U19 last season.

Now they are doing the opposite. They are partnering up with USYS to create a league for non -MLS clubs and creating teams for young players.

 

[jpeter]

I thought that was exactly what the MLS teams were trying to avoid. We were told they wanted only U17 and U19 and play only amongst themselves. That's why there were blue division for stronger teams and red division for weaker teams for U19 last season.

Now they are doing the opposite. They are partnering up with USYS to create a league for non -MLS clubs and creating teams for young players.

I dunno but once USYS was involved seems like things expanded , maybe Mwn can chime in if he's allowed to comment? After 2 years there are some rights & solidarity issues

 

[Son]

www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85429/mlss-todd-durbin-on-launching-new-development-lea.html

SA: Who will be the age groups of the league?

TODD DURBIN: "That is an issue we are still trying to finalize, to be perfectly candid with you. What I think is reasonable to say is that we're going to be participating in two age groups, the most likely being the U-17s and U-15s, but we're also considering whether to also participate regionally with the U-19s as well. A lot of that at some level will become a function of how the geography lays out and the ability to move and travel, which I think will have an impact on the total number of teams. Our current thinking and current plan is we have competition and programming for those three age groups."

 

[wc_baller]

www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85429/mlss-todd-durbin-on-launching-new-development-lea.html

SA: Who will be the age groups of the league?

TODD DURBIN: "That is an issue we are still trying to finalize, to be perfectly candid with you. What I think is reasonable to say is that we're going to be participating in two age groups, the most likely being the U-17s and U-15s, but we're also considering whether to also participate regionally with the U-19s as well. A lot of that at some level will become a function of how the geography lays out and the ability to move and travel, which I think will have an impact on the total number of teams. Our current thinking and current plan is we have competition and programming for those three age groups."

That makes absolutely no sense if they're only supporting those two age groups. What does an 18 year old high senior in high school do in this case, when he's aged out? Go back to a local club?

 

[Son]

So the non-MLS clubs will funnel their talented players U12 to U14 to the MLS teams? And then when there in nowhere for an 18 year old high school senior to go, then he goes back to the local club.

What non-MLS club in their right mind would agree to this? Will be VERY expensive for parents with huge travel distances, few games, and second-class citizen status.

 

[Dargle]

That makes absolutely no sense if they're only supporting those two age groups. What does an 18 year old high senior in high school do in this case, when he's aged out? Go back to a local club?

This is an MLS league designed to support MLS teams. If the player isn't good enough to get signed by an MLS team or its affiliated USL team by 18, then they probably have no use for you in the league.

 

[dad4]

Not really apples to apples. CSL Premier is pretty strong top to bottom where the bottom of CRL is pretty weak because teams can get a favorable pool or have a lucky weekend and qualify . CRL is also a side league like NPL so I don't really consider it because it draws from all the other leagues. I have analyzed the primary fall leagues (DA, ECNL, CSL Premier, SCDSL Discovery, and Presidio flt 1) and CSL Premier was slightly above DA and ECNL and significantly above SCDSL and Presidio in YSR composite rankings for boys teams at 3 age groups. Interestingly many of the teams that get relegated in CSL Premier are former DA teams that aged out of academy. Instead of earning it over years they get a weak pool in CRL, qualify for premier then struggle. That was a good indicator the DA's were failing in developing quality players.

Aside from all that, people need to stop thinking their letters are better. I am only making a strong statistical and anecdotal case here for CSL because they have been trashed mercilessly by the DA and ECNL snobs when real results painted a different picture. The hard truth is promotion/relegation works because the necessity to win does foster development but it negates the effects of pay to play and politics. Let me say that again, winning and development are NOT mutually exclusive.

What really needs to happen on the boys side is the top 10-15 teams from all the various leagues within a 3-5 hour drive of an MLS team should be invited to compete in a league with that MLS team. It should be a promotion/relegation system with the MLS Academy not ever getting relegated. The other team are there to support the MLS team and they should naturally be near the top because they will constantly be recruiting players from the other teams and bringing them into hopefully a residential academy structure. It's simple and it would work.

Better if MLS only coordinates things and runs the all star team.

We got this mess in part by having clubs decide on league structure. As soon as that happens, they try to use the power to screw each othe over.

 

[thedudeabides]

Another important point with most ECNL teams vs CSL and SCDSL teams- most teams hold their kids to a GPA requirement. ECNL is designed for the college going player. They will cut very good players if they can’t do well in school.

I spoke to the Oxnard coach in CRL last season and he only had 1 or 2 NCAA qualifiers on their entire roster. Outstanding players but college isn’t an option for most of those players.

a player on the team I’m familiar with had a DA kid leave and move to his ECNL team and his ECNL team had many more college commits than the DA team he left. 2/3rd of the boys went on to play around the country. Many of those kids went D3 to highly rated academic school

I have never heard of that and unless it is in their bylaws it's a meaningless anecdote because every team is different and I'll bet you if you surveyed CSL, Presidio and SCDSL coaches, many would tell you that academics are very important to their teams. Do you have a link to the ECNL grade requirements?

 

[thedudeabides]

Better if MLS only coordinates things and runs the all star team.

We got this mess in part by having clubs decide on league structure. As soon as that happens, they try to use the power to screw each othe over.

Totally agree. To me, CSL has the best structure. It's far from perfect but for the most part it works. The reason clubs flee CSL is they are too impatient to put in the time/effort to move through the ranks and earn their spot in the gold/premier levels. Our whole alphabet soup system of leagues and side leagues is such a political mess. Europe is scratching their heads thinking, what a waste of gifted athletes.

 

[jpeter]

So the non-MLS clubs will funnel their talented players U12 to U14 to the MLS teams? And then when there in nowhere for an 18 year old high school senior to go, then he goes back to the local club.

What non-MLS club in their right mind would agree to this? Will be VERY expensive for parents with huge travel distances, few games, and second-class citizen status.

$$$ compensation 2 year share or whatever that might be.

Travel for the the SW: LA and SD da division was mostly local so would think they would look for that kind of scheduling but like that article mentions fluid situation MLS age groups and non (USYS) up for discussion

 

[focomoso]

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

The trouble with ysr for the DA teams is that there aren't enough games between leagues. A team may constantly get beat up in the DA which will lower their scores, but would flatten most non DA teams. From personal experience with only boys 07/06 the lower-level DA teams are way under scored. For a while, a couple of club's best club team was ranked higher than their own DA, but that was because the clubs play so many more tournaments. An actual competitive match between the club and DA teams would be a blowout.

 

[thedudeabides]

The trouble with ysr for the DA teams is that there aren't enough games between leagues. A team may constantly get beat up in the DA which will lower their scores, but would flatten most non DA teams. From personal experience with only boys 07/06 the lower-level DA teams are way under scored. For a while, a couple of club's best club team was ranked higher than their own DA, but that was because the clubs play so many more tournaments. An actual competitive match between the club and DA teams would be a blowout.

I've been following it for several years from a statistical vantage point and attended hundreds of those games you speak of and you couldn't be more incorrect for u14 and older boys. The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that the non mls da teams were not nearly as good as their mls counterparts (yes, there are exceptions) and now US Soccer just changed course primarily for this reason. Yes, non mls da teams would flatten most club teams, big deal. However, those same DA's struggle against top 50 teams in socal that are occupying the flt1/premier/ecnl designations and that's why MLS just tossed them aside.

 

[Mick]

I've been following it for several years from a statistical vantage point and attended hundreds of those games you speak of and you couldn't be more incorrect for u14 and older boys. The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that the non mls da teams were not nearly as good as their mls counterparts (yes, there are exceptions) and now US Soccer just changed course primarily for this reason. Yes, non mls da teams would flatten most club teams, big deal. However, those same DA's struggle against top 50 teams in socal that are occupying the flt1/premier/ecnl designations and that's why MLS just tossed them aside.

 

[focomoso]

The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that...

What games, where? When do (sorry, did) DA teams play non DA in official games that would get counted in ysr? That's the problem.

 

[thedudeabides]

What games, where? When do (sorry, did) DA teams play non DA in official games that would get counted in ysr? That's the problem.

When a u15 team shows up playing non DA with the exact same roster that it fielded the year before as a DA, it's the same team. In fact YSR considers it the same team because it counts 18 months of competition. Same coach, same players, same team. Also, there are several tournaments that DA teams participate in that they play non DA competition. You can keep drinking the koolaid but judgment has been rendered; complete failure of it's stated objective to create world class players. Also, I've had numerous conversations with the creator of YSR software; the algorithm is solid and works very well with as little as 8 games counted. Numbers don't lie.

 

[Bubba]

I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.

When was the last time you saw college coaches at any CSL/SCDSL league games ? Maybe one just to check on one of his players he is recruiting. My son plays college and the coach never stressed what league they played in. His coach was looking for a left back that went up/down the field and had good instincts.

My son's teammate a right back that seem to have double the work rate than my son , had coaches drooling. I happened to be on sideline and would hear their comments. "Did you see that right back" " man he never gets tired".

Don't stress about the league , if your son is good enough and has exposure he should be fine.

 

[galaxydad]

I have never heard of that and unless it is in their bylaws it's a meaningless anecdote because every team is different and I'll bet you if you surveyed CSL, Presidio and SCDSL coaches, many would tell you that academics are very important to their teams. Do you have a link to the ECNL grade requirements?

there is no requirement but many track grades and hold them to it as ECNL is a college going league. why take a non qualifier to college showcase. Teams build reputations with the college coaches and they want to know that the gpa test scores etc listed are accurate. A coach scouting for their colleges- time is very valuable. They don’t want to waste their time and don’t want to get excited about a kid that they can’t even recruit.

someone said that recruiting is up to a player and their family and that is true but trust me, a good ECNL program is actively working to help their players get offers

why pay 3,000 plus travel and go to showcases if your can’t get in?


I got crap earlier about talking ECNL but now most of the non MLS DA kids are jumping into this league and I’d argue it’s not just a competitive league but it’s a college going league and that’s it’s focus and they do it well. The non student isn’t the focus.

IMO- a pro career in the US is not what this sport offers the American soccer player. I personally know several kids that went that route and have regretted it. They gave their heart and soul for their homegrown badge and spent more in gas to and from the pitch than they ever made as a pro in galaxy II. Now a chance to get into college, maybe one you might not have gotten into as a non athlete and play a sport you love a little longer. Now that’s reachable for lots of our boys

 

[Patandpats]

According to our DA director, the new league will be called something like "MLS Academy" and while the details are still being worked out, it will mostly work like the DA did minus about 20% of the clubs that jumped to ECNL. They are adding Phx Rising at all levels, Liverpool in OC and some other clubs.

What will likely be different is that the u19 level might go away because MLS clubs feel that if you aren't ready to be signed by then it won't be worth their time. What teams like LAUFA, TFA, Nomads, etc will do with that age group remains to be seen. Beyond that they are getting rid of the gap year, likely getting rid of the sub rules. Not much else will change. Our DOC said MLS clubs have to do this because otherwise they couldn't afford their academies since they'd have to fly to almost every game.

Our DOC is full of shit in general, but if you liked the DA, it sounds like it will still be the DA. The downside of course is that losing the six clubs in southern CA means that there will be more out of state travel to Arizona since there will be at least three clubs there (Barca, Rising, RSLAZ). It will be interesting to see if those clubs that left try to get back in or stick with ECNL.

They said MLS is meeting today about it and final details will be available in the next couple of weeks. Basically MLS is going to do everything US Soccer resisted doing that the wanted to do. I still maintain southern CA clubs should have an alliance to play each other and limit the travel (why play Rising three times when you can play Strikers three times and not pay for a hotel, miss school, etc) but that would require DOC's to think about the best interests of the kids first.

 

[jpeter]

My advice is play soccer, gave some fun, and choose clubs, coaches, teams that are supportive and have good reputations.

The whole chase the college athletic partial scholarship for soccer deal should'nt be the focus. Your kids great grades and character will go farther in getting accepted.

The days of getting special admin due to athletics are pretty much over at the big colleges. Even at UCLA if you not in the average range of requirements they won't even give you a offer. The range for GPA for incoming freshman is 4.0 to 4.29 and you need socal and character reference or work also. If you have a 3.5 GPA and play soccer to count on offers from the the big D1 colleges they have so many possible applicants they just move on to the next.

At the better D2's 3.5gpa is possible for some schools that have lower admission standards while other require 3.7+ even the the minimum requirement is just what like a 2.2 GPA for a scholarship. D3 there are no set gpa requirements, up to schools but still have to meet the NCAA A-G course work in college.

Financial need is a big part of scholarships, example our son had offer from a pretty high profile college but it cost $55,000 a year. Coach likes him wants to make him an offer but explain to him they only get about 6 scholarships and nobody gets a full one and it's based on economic need basically he's going to get nothing in a nut shell.

Our daughter decided that she wasn't going to play college soccer and she managed to get over a dozen scholarships based on academic character, social, and Civic things she does. some of those were smaller amounts but it all added up enough to pay for her college for the first two years.

College soccer while that's another topic all together, the short limited season is really not conducted for serious soccer players. Many end up having to play and some other leagues like usl 2, upsl, etc to keep developing.