Dirty players

2005 girl, played a team this weekend that on average was about 25lbs bigger than our team per girl. We were quicker faster and technically superior and won easily 4-1. Thankfully they weren't a dirty team and none of our girls got hurt. Our girls in normal bumping would more often hit the ground then theirs, but they weren't doing anything illegal. One time one of our girls tried to step in front of one of theirs, missed the ball, ran right into her, and hit the ground hard like running into a brick wall, the other girl just kept running. Hilarious. Thankfully she wasn't hurt.

Isn't slamming into a girl from behind on a breakaway automatically a yellow/red card and a penalty kick? Isn't that denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity?
 
2005 girl, played a team this weekend that on average was about 25lbs bigger than our team per girl. We were quicker faster and technically superior and won easily 4-1. Thankfully they weren't a dirty team and none of our girls got hurt. Our girls in normal bumping would more often hit the ground then theirs, but they weren't doing anything illegal. One time one of our girls tried to step in front of one of theirs, missed the ball, ran right into her, and hit the ground hard like running into a brick wall, the other girl just kept running. Hilarious. Thankfully she wasn't hurt.

Isn't slamming into a girl from behind on a breakaway automatically a yellow/red card and a penalty kick? Isn't that denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity?
They answer is yes, it should be, but it's not always called that way.

It's funny when smaller girls go up against bigger kids and get bumped on the backside - on the positive, I've noticed that the refs tend to call the foul on the bigger kids whether or not they were at fault.
 
Good thread. And eye opening to watch our team this weekend. I don't think we are dirty. But we did have quite a few fouls called for a push in the back. Mostly called against our smallest player. If she was bigger, they might deserve cautions. They were almost shoulder to shoulder, but just a bit off. And a few calls for getting the elbows up a bit too high when in close contact.
There weren't any fouls for hard charges. There were a few tripping calls against the other team.
Nothing "dirty" from either side. It looked like youth players trying to adapt to playing with a bit more contact.
 
I don't mind the rough play after all it is a contact sport...shoulder to shoulder or clean plays where a player gets knock on their a$$..is all fair game but what I have a problem with are the plays where it is intentional like the grabbing or pulling or the locking of the arms to pull players off the ball...I have seen girls literally swing a player in a full circle because they locked arm while the one other is trying to get free...some refs call it, some don't...but at the end of the day, it's a 50/50 chance on any call, just hope you get a good set of refs that call a good clean game and make the calls on the dirty plays. At GU16, if the girls have been playing club for awhile whether or not the "dirty" plays are coached or not and if the refs call it or not, it's up to the player as to how they read the game and play accordingly with their skills and physical strength to win the ball.
 
I saw some pretty ugly soccer this weekend. My dd was fouled with a blatant push off the ball. The ref called it and awarded her a kick but the player on the other side was nasty about it. She smirked at her as she walked away and then high fived a few teammates. Later in the game my dd and same girl were both running for a ball and collided, her inside arm came down on other player and she went down and went out injured. Pure karma. The parents were all howling to card her but disnt say a peep when the same player pushed her earlier. Complete accident and my kid apologized to her and ref for the collision. Her team lost and she was fine with it, she played great and clean.
 
My DD (left back), was laid out by a forward who was just frustrated by being repeatedly beat to the ball and shut down all game. So said forward decided to body check her into the sidelines well after the play was over and being beat again. Took her out of the game (and remainder of Far West Regional tournament) sending her to the ED for concussion/whiplash. Sure she got a foul called on her but really? Tempted to send the medical bill (CT scan, ED visit, etc) to the forward's club and parents for compensation. Should be the rule for such outcomes. Think 95% of time it's parent's and coaches' responsibility and 5% refs who need to get those type of players in check before damage gets done. If a player loves to play dirty let them pursue hockey or roller derby.
 
Isn't slamming into a girl from behind on a breakaway automatically a yellow/red card and a penalty kick? Isn't that denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity?
Denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity also involves distance from goal. Could just be a tactical foul (yellow) if it occurs at the halfline, but slamming could be with excessive force (red card). Only a penalty kick if in the box.

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/62017/red-card-how-to-call-dogso.html
 
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Interesting discussion. Been watching various age groups for 6-7 years, and here's my take:
1. Truly dirty players are rare. It is a physical game and most girls playing club soccer are more aggressive than average, so you get lots of collisions that over-protective parents wail about, but don't amount to intentional dirty play. Had one kid on our team who really loved the physical part of the game. She was little, too. But she ran full speed into 50/50 balls and loved it when she knocked opponents down. Sweet kid off the field though. But she got lots of yellow cards and a PK once that cost us a game. Our coach over time taught her how to channel her aggression, but it was a process. I wouldn't say she was dirty, but plenty of opposing parents probably thought she was.
2. It is a frustrating game sometimes, and I've seen plenty of decent kids lose their tempers, get frustrated, or seek "revenge" for something said or done in the heat of battle. This results in obvious fouls and some extra forceful body checking that, while within the rules, seems unnecessary. Doesn't make it "dirty," but out of control, yes.
3. Eliminating dirty play is for the refs to handle. Just like you see in professional sports, a really good ref will see what is happening within the game and notice when a player is getting too edgy or if a couple of players are going at it a little too emotionally. They pull them aside and talk to them. They will pull the captains and talk to them. They will talk to the coaches. They will give out cards and ejections if they think it is getting out of hand. That is how it gets stopped. A ref stopped one of my kid's games once to lecture both teams about getting too feisty, and afterwards they all shook hands and smiled and it ended up being a great, clean game. Coaches aren't neutral arbiters of the game. They are in the heat of the battle, too, so it isn't realistic to leave it up to them to pull an over-aggressive player when that player might win them the 50/50 ball that turns the game. That's why the refs are there. If you get a weak or inexperienced ref, that's generally when "dirty" play evolves.
4. As for how to handle it as a parent, I just tell my kid that the ultimate revenge is to win the game so don't let the fouling or physical play distract her from focusing on her job and responsibilities on the field or her technique. That doesn't always work, but you do the best you can. I give her examples from professional sports or athletes who are able to block out the nonsense and focus on their jobs vs those who get caught up in the extraneous stuff and lose focus (see Phelps vs. Le Clos in Rio).
 
Most of the dirty play could be cleaned up if referees correctly punished and carded players for cautionable tactics in youth games. However, referees are reminded by administrators not to issue too many cards or teams won't return to said tournament (fewer games to referee!), so they try to manage the game without cards. (There's also the paperwork, which takes time, etc.) When it takes more than just a reckless play to earn a caution or takes several delays of game before a referee finally acts, the game deteriorates to what we often see. And then when this week's referee correctly enforces laws that last week's ref let go, you get sideline issues because Jenny is getting calls against her for last weeks' "good, physical play."
 
Most of the dirty play could be cleaned up if referees correctly punished and carded players for cautionable tactics in youth games. However, referees are reminded by administrators not to issue too many cards or teams won't return to said tournament (fewer games to referee!), so they try to manage the game without cards. (There's also the paperwork, which takes time, etc.) When it takes more than just a reckless play to earn a caution or takes several delays of game before a referee finally acts, the game deteriorates to what we often see. And then when this week's referee correctly enforces laws that last week's ref let go, you get sideline issues because Jenny is getting calls against her for last weeks' "good, physical play."

What about the teams that don't come back because the refereeing was so crappy there last year - "They never called anything!"
 
Speaking of refs, for the last two weekends, my older kid's team played 4 CRL games. The officiating in all but one were poor. The first game, about (no joke) 12 yellow cards and 2 red cards. The game was not controlled in the 1st half and got very chippy in the 2nd.

Second game, only few yellows but the refs just let the game go out of control and even ignored offside AR flag that resulted in a goal. CR let the game go beyond just physical. Once one of the CRL official was standing along the sideline and CR noticed, the calls started to get made.

The worse part was at the end of the game, CR engaged in a conversation with one of the families on the team that just scored the last second goal to win with laughter, smiles and very friendly gestures. Not saying that there was a bias but the appearance is not great for the CR. If CR was a friend of the team, perhaps should have excluded self from the game to avoid conflict of interest.

Third game was just poor AR officiating, where many, many calls were made in error (e.g., offside call when the player did not make an attempt to go after the ball, or struggling to make which team forced the ball out)

The last game was quite good. CR let the teams play and controlled the intensity. There was a moment, where a fight almost broke out (2~3 players from each side pushing and shoving with neck veins sticking waaaay out) and they (CR and ARs) immediately stepped in and calmed the players down.

These are boys 98s/99s playing in 97/98 age group so they go at it at full speed and contact.

Are there any dirty players? Maybe but very few that I've seen over the years. There are plenty of jerks and not very likable players but it doesn't make them dirty. I think, especially at younger ages, parents are simply not used to physicalness of the sport and how aggressive it can get (the players want to win). I remember the very first time I saw GU16 Premier game at the Oaks Polo field (old name), when my older kid was playing U10 at the same venue. I told my wife jokingly, then, that I didn't want to run into any of them in a dark alley for fear for my life.... Now I see the games at older ages and think nothing of it. Its just the nature of the game and have gotten used to it.....
 
Most of the dirty play could be cleaned up if referees correctly punished and carded players for cautionable tactics in youth games. However, referees are reminded by administrators not to issue too many cards or teams won't return to said tournament (fewer games to referee!), so they try to manage the game without cards. (There's also the paperwork, which takes time, etc.) When it takes more than just a reckless play to earn a caution or takes several delays of game before a referee finally acts, the game deteriorates to what we often see. And then when this week's referee correctly enforces laws that last week's ref let go, you get sideline issues because Jenny is getting calls against her for last weeks' "good, physical play."

Where have you heard that? I'd be shocked if a tournament admin directed referees to go easy on the cards because they are concerned about next year's revenue. And I'd be even more shocked if a referee actually listened and it affected the way they call the game.
 
Where have you heard that? I'd be shocked if a tournament admin directed referees to go easy on the cards because they are concerned about next year's revenue. And I'd be even more shocked if a referee actually listened and it affected the way they call the game.
Check the newsletters on the LBSRA website (corrected: http://www.lbsra.com/)
 
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Check the newsletters on the LBSRA website (corrected: http://www.lbsra.com/)

First newsletter I read: Said...

"A reminder to all referees to control the games from the very beginning, talk to the players when they are doing something stupid, next me
yellow card and finally ejection. Always call the first fault by doing this you will eliminate THE RETALIATION FAULT.
All the center referees should give some kind of pre-game instructions to their AR’s. You will be surprised to see how the game will progress more
smoothly without any confrontations from the benches and also from the parents."

Excellent advice. Wish all refs at the club level would follow it. Many do not. The good ones do.
 
Another thread and a recent game with my GU9 daughter got me thinking about dealing with dirty players. I think the days are gone for my own kid where games are clean and kids generally follow the rules. Nothing like watching a 9 year old girl lay an opponent out with a forearm across a kid's face, then 5 minutes later run up behind a kid and lay a shoulder in the back to blow up a player without coming anywhere near the ball, then 5 minutes later lay a shoulder into a third player and knock them 4 feet sideways-- to make your jaw hit the floor.

As a coach, what have you done (or seen your coach do) and has it been helpful when you face a player or team that plays outside the boundaries?

Is it different for girls vs boys? Does age matter?

Obviously, without disrupting the game, little can be done as a sideline parent.

Have you taught your child anything you feel is helpful in dealing with this? Or does everyone have to just try and survive and hope for a decent ref who is willing/able/competent to deal with the issue.

It isn't the play that is dirty at U13 and below, it is what the coach has taught them and the parents have encouraged. So, it is that club or teams system that is dirty. Wait until your kids get older and you will see some true dirty play, but that dirty play can also be considered tactically sound.

At high school age and college, I believe there are dirty players. Every team at the older ages has a couple enforcers that know when to foul and who to foul. DD had a college game this past Friday (I watch the live stream) and DD scored in the 4th minute and was just causing havoc with the other teams defense. About 20 minutes in after DD team scored their second goal the other team moved one of the mids back to have a 5-4-1 and that mid targeted my DD with 4 fouls in a 5 minute period with the last foul getting the girl a Yellow. Dirty play or smart tactics? When my DD and I talked last night she thought it was a smart move tactically. DD did point out that she took the girl down with a hard foul near midfield during an attack later in the game, but helped her up. DD said the other girl was just doing her job and DD said she fouled her hard to stop what could have been an attack and gave DD team a chance to get back into formation.

Stoked that I get to see DD play this Friday before driving back to referee Blues Cup. Just bummed I will miss her Saturday game.
 
It isn't the play that is dirty at U13 and below, it is what the coach has taught them and the parents have encouraged. So, it is that club or teams system that is dirty. Wait until your kids get older and you will see some true dirty play, but that dirty play can also be considered tactically sound.

At high school age and college, I believe there are dirty players. Every team at the older ages has a couple enforcers that know when to foul and who to foul. DD had a college game this past Friday (I watch the live stream) and DD scored in the 4th minute and was just causing havoc with the other teams defense. About 20 minutes in after DD team scored their second goal the other team moved one of the mids back to have a 5-4-1 and that mid targeted my DD with 4 fouls in a 5 minute period with the last foul getting the girl a Yellow. Dirty play or smart tactics? When my DD and I talked last night she thought it was a smart move tactically. DD did point out that she took the girl down with a hard foul near midfield during an attack later in the game, but helped her up. DD said the other girl was just doing her job and DD said she fouled her hard to stop what could have been an attack and gave DD team a chance to get back into formation.

Stoked that I get to see DD play this Friday before driving back to referee Blues Cup. Just bummed I will miss her Saturday game.

So how did your DD's game turn out? The final score?
 
It isn't the play that is dirty at U13 and below, it is what the coach has taught them and the parents have encouraged. So, it is that club or teams system that is dirty. Wait until your kids get older and you will see some true dirty play, but that dirty play can also be considered tactically sound.

At high school age and college, I believe there are dirty players. Every team at the older ages has a couple enforcers that know when to foul and who to foul. DD had a college game this past Friday (I watch the live stream) and DD scored in the 4th minute and was just causing havoc with the other teams defense. About 20 minutes in after DD team scored their second goal the other team moved one of the mids back to have a 5-4-1 and that mid targeted my DD with 4 fouls in a 5 minute period with the last foul getting the girl a Yellow. Dirty play or smart tactics? When my DD and I talked last night she thought it was a smart move tactically. DD did point out that she took the girl down with a hard foul near midfield during an attack later in the game, but helped her up. DD said the other girl was just doing her job and DD said she fouled her hard to stop what could have been an attack and gave DD team a chance to get back into formation.

Stoked that I get to see DD play this Friday before driving back to referee Blues Cup. Just bummed I will miss her Saturday game.

Why did I think your DD left college soccer. Am I wrong? Did she just move colleges? Not being rude, just clarifying and probably a bit out of the loop. Hoping the best for her and glad to continue following up. Where is she at these days?
 
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