California AB5
- Thread starter Frank
- Start date
Surfref
PREMIER
I have talked to a couple other referees and we are all wondering how it will effect sports officials. I have read it and it is vague on who it applies to and who it doesn’t.
What I have heard is that it applies to everyone and every profession except the very few exceptions listed in the actual bill. I would think this could change if this bill is opposed in a court of law with a law suit where a precedent is set and the law is defined more clearly by the court.
coachrefparent
GOLD
Yep, the shit show begins with referees and hundreds of other types of "workers."
Surfref
PREMIER
I would assume the association would be considered the employer since the clubs contract with the ref associations to provide referees. I really hope there is no change.
twoclubpapa
SILVER ELITE
One thing that the CA Supreme Court stated in the case that "inspired" this bill was that one of the indicators of truly being an independent contractor was offering and providing your services to multiple different employers. A referee who is a member of several associations would fit this description if a referee association is ultimately determined to be an employer. I don't know how AB5 addresses this situation.
Frank
GOLD
I believe so as a lot of clubs are already making this switch.
AB 5 presents challenges in its present form. Referees had a statutory exclusion in CA from being an employee for purpose of worker's compensation, but its unclear how that existing law co-exists with AB 5. Some referees may meet the AB 5 definition for independent contractors where they can and do accept assignments from other associations and sports. But, until the state legislature adds youth sports coaches/officials/administrators as an additional statutory exception for AB 5, the new law may have significant consequences for the viability of all youth sports.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
Didn't the law start on the 1st?
With nothing added by the state legislature yet, what are the significant consequences?
With nothing added by the state legislature yet, what are the significant consequences?
coachrefparent
GOLD
Lots of referee associations likely in violation of the law, with penalties that include significant attorney fees.
Frank
GOLD
Based on my corporate review of the law I think refs are ok. I choose my schedule and I choose which games I will or won’t accept. I pay dues to be a part of an association. Also, ref associations aren’t usually paying me. It’s usually the school or cash on the field. There is no office I need to report to or hold office hours.
now admins who get paid may have an issue, but most I know are volunteer.
Frank
GOLD
California law attempts to clarify what entitles someone to be considered an independent contractor. A worker must meet all three of California’s “ABC” test:
• A. that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact,
• B. that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business,
• C. that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation or business of the same nature as the work performed.
• A. that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact,
• B. that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business,
• C. that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation or business of the same nature as the work performed.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
I'm slow. What's your point?
Frank
GOLD
refs are considered contractors
"• B. that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business,"
What is the usual course of a ref association's business? Is reffing outside the usual course of a ref association's business? Without a specific exception to AB5, I would say that ref associations are at risk under the "B" of the ABC test. Not to mention that most ref associations actually assign games to the refs based on availability etc. in potential violation of "A." AB5 is stupid, but it is the law in CA.
Frank
GOLD
The ref association is not hiring the ref. The team, school, tournament, etc is. The association is simply a conduit to get to the referee. That's ultimately who is paying me. Sometimes through the Association, sometimes by the team on the field and sometimes directly (All of HS and college). With that said refereeing is outside of everyone of those entities natural course of business.
Ok. My ref association rates referees and handles the scheduling by assigning refs to games they are qualified to ref. Tournaments and leagues work through the ref association and do not contact me directly. What is the natural course of a referee association's business if not to provide referees to soccer tournaments and leagues. Totally different if I ref a scrimmage between two teams that book me directly. When you get paid on the field, do you collect a fee for your association? I think people need to get a little fired up to fight AB5 instead of sticking their head in the sand and thinking it won't apply to them. AB5 is ridiculously broad. Talk to a labor/employment lawyer knowledgeable about AB5 when you get a chance.