Balancing a heavy school workload and high level soccer.. Reasonable accommodation requests?

[Slow Jamin]

So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student. Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout. I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned. Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's, energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly? In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school as well. If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload? Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?

 

[JJP]

What kind of answer do you expect to receive? You already know it's unsustainable for any kid to get that little sleep and function. Somethings gotta give, grades or sport.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

Burnout will take into effect soon. I am almost in a similar situation with my 8th grade child. I am actually not enrolling him in any AP classes or honors programs for the first year of high school. I think that you need to determine what is your child's goal with school and soccer:
1. Academy soccer that could lead into playing in college
2. Graduate with honors to potentially obtain a small scholarship and attend a top university
3. Have fun in school while playing high school soccer and taking a couple of advanced classes

To me I want my kids to be kids and have fun. Once they get into college, they will be on their own and will have a full schedule between school and work.

 

[timbuck]

On the low end (2 hours per night x 5 nights and 15 hours on the weekend) she is putting in 25 hours a week for homework. On the high end (6 hours x 5 nights and 20 hours on weekends) she is putting in 50 hours per week on homework. Plus she's in school for 30 hours a week.
A 55 to 80 workweek is very intense for someone making a very good living. That much for a 13 year seems super hardcore. What does she want to be "when she grows up?"
Then layer in another 15-20 hours of soccer.
This is an impressive schedule.
As stated by other posters, something's gotta give.
Why is her school load so big? Advanced school? Advanced classes? Extra credit? Does she need to study extra to get the grades she wants? That seems like a lot of work for most 8th grade students. (I have a 6th grade kid that has to put in extra work just to get a B. But not to this level.).
Where does this pressure come from?

 

[Daniel Miller]

So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student. Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout. I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned. Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's, energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly? In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school as well. If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload? Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?

My suggestions:

1. If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach. If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school. Step back and think about this. The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low. Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year. To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years. If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.

2. Starting in 8th grade, she can start learning and practicing the PSAT 8/9, continue taking solid courses, do well on her SATs, and probably earn a merit scholarship to any PAC 12 school. This is nearly guaranteed. If she studies any of the sciences or engineering, she is guaranteed a 6-figure job within a few years of graduation. Again, guaranteed.

3. Your real problem, as I see it, is the amount of time she spends studying. I have a disabled son who is in 7th grade. He doesn't play sports, and doing paperwork and ordinary class functions is difficult for him and takes a lot more time than for others. So we have similar issues; how do you find time for the courseload? Here is what I did. For notetaking and general coursework I bought an OfficePro laptop. He can write his notes directly onto the screen, and the program edits the notes into typewritten form. For most of his assignments, where he has to write summaries, or do definitions, or take Cornell Notes, or whatever it is, we have forced him to learn how to use word-processing programs and dictation programs. So basically, all he has to do is set the page up (we often create tables), and then dictate his responses into the computer. It took months for him to get the hang of it, but now it cuts his homework time in half. And the finished product is eminently more readable and editable. The only place where we still use hand-and-pencil work is math.

Good luck to you and yours.

 

[Daniel Miller]

Note: SurfacePro4, not OfficePro.

 

[CaliKlines]

My junior in high school completes much of her homework during school hours. She has a 3.9 unweighted GPA with numerous honors ands AP classes. Maybe our school district is unusual, but she has time at the end of class, during lunch, and before the next class starts. (In addition to the approximately 2 hours at home each night Mon-Thurs, which is also done sometimes in a group setting at a local Starbucks...socialization + scholarship.)

I have also heard rumors about our DA club providing a study hall with tutors before practice begins. With only 1 game per weekend, there will be additional opportunities for studying on Sat and Sun.

 

[Grace T.]

I see this a lot with the kids I interview to get into my Ivy. Sleep deprivation is a major issue. If a very high level college is your kids goal (e.g. top 20), it gets that way, particularly by junior year and they are carrying all those AP classes. On top of that, the high level schools expect your kid to do some charity work and have an active social life.

Also, it's a myth that most (not all) top 20 schools are just looking for well rounded individuals. They are looking mostly for people that are passionate about something, and ideally will carry that passion forward. So unless your kid is going to continue to play in college, and soccer is their "hook" on which to carry their application (and on which their application will rise and fall) it's ultimately not that important.

SoccerFan4Life gives a good breakdown. Right on the mark.

 

[mirage]

......8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student. Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's

Since this is your first, the very first thing you need to know (I'm sure you do) is that each kid has different learning speed and style. Nothing to say about how smart a kid is or is not. Its just that some kids require longer time to work things out in their head to comprehend and synthesize the information.

That said, high school will be a noticeable step up, in terms of subject complexity, than middle school. Realizing that she's probably taking advanced HS level course already, what changes is that every class is more complex - not just ones that she excels in.

In a few words, kids ability to achieve or maintain A's will ultimately depends on the motivation of the child, couple with learning abilities, regardless of other activities.

Examples from other parents may ease your thinking but it really doesn't apply to your kid because each kid is unique (in terms of learning speed and the abilities). But, there are 2 key items to think about and emphasize with your kid. These 2 things has made my kid successful in HS. He's a senior with only 1 B+ in AP Chem since 6th grade. The rest are all A's (including all other AP classes) and for the most of his HS years, practiced 4xWeek and games on weekends year around. His unweighted GPA is 3.95 and weighted is 4.4.

1) time management - how does she spend her time throughout the day? You'd be surprised how effective 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there are. My kid prioritizes HW with easier ones 1st that he can get it done quickly. Those he does during lunch, idle time in classes and during "tutorial" (study period during the day ~20 minutes). Harder material is done immediately after school before practices. If not done by then, clearly after but usually by getting up earlier in AM than staying up later because he's fresher in the morning (tired after practice and not as efficient). He's in bed usually by 10pm and up at 6am, getting 8hrs.

2) motivation -make sure that the kid is doing it for herself (both school and sports). You won't have to remind or nag about school work or field performance, if the player is motivated. No need to constantly ask but recognize signs and chat periodically. Usual key signs are crappy practices or lack of pride in her school work. There are many reasons for these to occur but if its staring to set a trend, then you probably want to chat....

..........I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines ........If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid........

Sorry in advance and is blunt. If you have to ask, then you can't handle it. Plenty of kids get it done.

 

[ThtGoaldnKeeper]

So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student. Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout. I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned. Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's, energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly? In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school as well. If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload? Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?

It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.
I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
2) How high level is she and how much time will go to soccer?
3) Does your daughter have the mindset to be able to sacrifice time with friend and messing around at school or even outside of school to be able to work on her homework?
$) Have you ever really heard of someone getting the "best of both worlds" in anything really?

 

[Soccer Cat]

My suggestions:

1. If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach. If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school. Step back and think about this. The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low. Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year. To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years. If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.

2. Starting in 8th grade, she can start learning and practicing the PSAT 8/9, continue taking solid courses, do well on her SATs, and probably earn a merit scholarship to any PAC 12 school. This is nearly guaranteed. If she studies any of the sciences or engineering, she is guaranteed a 6-figure job within a few years of graduation. Again, guaranteed.

3. Your real problem, as I see it, is the amount of time she spends studying. I have a disabled son who is in 7th grade. He doesn't play sports, and doing paperwork and ordinary class functions is difficult for him and takes a lot more time than for others. So we have similar issues; how do you find time for the courseload? Here is what I did. For notetaking and general coursework I bought an OfficePro laptop. He can write his notes directly onto the screen, and the program edits the notes into typewritten form. For most of his assignments, where he has to write summaries, or do definitions, or take Cornell Notes, or whatever it is, we have forced him to learn how to use word-processing programs and dictation programs. So basically, all he has to do is set the page up (we often create tables), and then dictate his responses into the computer. It took months for him to get the hang of it, but now it cuts his homework time in half. And the finished product is eminently more readable and editable. The only place where we still use hand-and-pencil work is math.

Good luck to you and yours.

What he said!
School and grades first! The odds she will make a good living as a soccer player are way high, like winning the lottery. Do the research. I'm all for supporting my daughter chasing her soccer dreams, but she knows school comes first. I feel like helping your kid keep things in perspective is a parents job, because at that age they don't realize a lot of things.

Best of luck ! There will be many more challenges ahead...

 

[Slow Jamin]

On the low end (2 hours per night x 5 nights and 15 hours on the weekend) she is putting in 25 hours a week for homework. On the high end (6 hours x 5 nights and 20 hours on weekends) she is putting in 50 hours per week on homework. Plus she's in school for 30 hours a week.
A 55 to 80 workweek is very intense for someone making a very good living. That much for a 13 year seems super hardcore. What does she want to be "when she grows up?"
Then layer in another 15-20 hours of soccer.
This is an impressive schedule.
As stated by other posters, something's gotta give.
Why is her school load so big? Advanced school? Advanced classes? Extra credit? Does she need to study extra to get the grades she wants? That seems like a lot of work for most 8th grade students. (I have a 6th grade kid that has to put in extra work just to get a B. But not to this level.).
Where does this pressure come from?

Her school load is so big mainly due to 1 or 2 teachers that assign her sizeable projects with ultra short time deadlines + regular schoolwork. Combine that with our DD's high standards for the quality of her work and attention to detail = crazy manhours devoted by an 8th grader. She is taking advanced classes but she does 0 extra credit work. The pressure comes from Mom's cultural upbringing (Tiger Mom).

 

[Slow Jamin]

My suggestions:

1. If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach. If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school. Step back and think about this. The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low. Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year. To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years. If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.

2. Starting in 8th grade, she can start learning and practicing the PSAT 8/9, continue taking solid courses, do well on her SATs, and probably earn a merit scholarship to any PAC 12 school. This is nearly guaranteed. If she studies any of the sciences or engineering, she is guaranteed a 6-figure job within a few years of graduation. Again, guaranteed.

3. Your real problem, as I see it, is the amount of time she spends studying. I have a disabled son who is in 7th grade. He doesn't play sports, and doing paperwork and ordinary class functions is difficult for him and takes a lot more time than for others. So we have similar issues; how do you find time for the courseload? Here is what I did. For notetaking and general coursework I bought an OfficePro laptop. He can write his notes directly onto the screen, and the program edits the notes into typewritten form. For most of his assignments, where he has to write summaries, or do definitions, or take Cornell Notes, or whatever it is, we have forced him to learn how to use word-processing programs and dictation programs. So basically, all he has to do is set the page up (we often create tables), and then dictate his responses into the computer. It took months for him to get the hang of it, but now it cuts his homework time in half. And the finished product is eminently more readable and editable. The only place where we still use hand-and-pencil work is math.

Good luck to you and yours.

Great feedback Daniel. I never thought about her dictating her word processing to improve her operational efficiency. I will recommend that she utilize this best practice. I am confident that this will shave off a few man-hours as well. Thank you!

 

[Slow Jamin]

Since this is your first, the very first thing you need to know (I'm sure you do) is that each kid has different learning speed and style. Nothing to say about how smart a kid is or is not. Its just that some kids require longer time to work things out in their head to comprehend and synthesize the information.

That said, high school will be a noticeable step up, in terms of subject complexity, than middle school. Realizing that she's probably taking advanced HS level course already, what changes is that every class is more complex - not just ones that she excels in.

In a few words, kids ability to achieve or maintain A's will ultimately depends on the motivation of the child, couple with learning abilities, regardless of other activities.

Examples from other parents may ease your thinking but it really doesn't apply to your kid because each kid is unique (in terms of learning speed and the abilities). But, there are 2 key items to think about and emphasize with your kid. These 2 things has made my kid successful in HS. He's a senior with only 1 B+ in AP Chem since 6th grade. The rest are all A's (including all other AP classes) and for the most of his HS years, practiced 4xWeek and games on weekends year around. His unweighted GPA is 3.95 and weighted is 4.4.

1) time management - how does she spend her time throughout the day? You'd be surprised how effective 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there are. My kid prioritizes HW with easier ones 1st that he can get it done quickly. Those he does during lunch, idle time in classes and during "tutorial" (study period during the day ~20 minutes). Harder material is done immediately after school before practices. If not done by then, clearly after but usually by getting up earlier in AM than staying up later because he's fresher in the morning (tired after practice and not as efficient). He's in bed usually by 10pm and up at 6am, getting 8hrs.

2) motivation -make sure that the kid is doing it for herself (both school and sports). You won't have to remind or nag about school work or field performance, if the player is motivated. No need to constantly ask but recognize signs and chat periodically. Usual key signs are crappy practices or lack of pride in her school work. There are many reasons for these to occur but if its staring to set a trend, then you probably want to chat....



Sorry in advance and is blunt. If you have to ask, then you can't handle it. Plenty of kids get it done.

Great feedback. Motivation for both is high. But yes, she could probably be more efficient if she worked on assignments during her lunch break instead of socializing, etc. Congrats on your son's scholastic achievements while balancing soccer. Impressive!

 

[soccerobserver]

Slow Jam...we have been through this also...both of my parents were teachers and my kids have done well academically...If an 8th grader is spending 6 hours on a night doing homework then something is not right...either there was major procrastination on a long-term project now due or there may be comprehension issues...or possibly you might be over estimating...also what does taking away the smart phone teach her???... she has to learn to manage that also...that's how the kids stay connected...some kids do facetime/group study or ask for help on problems via group chats...

 

[Slow Jamin]

It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.
I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
2) How high level is she and how much time will go to soccer?
3) Does your daughter have the mindset to be able to sacrifice time with friend and messing around at school or even outside of school to be able to work on her homework?
$) Have you ever really heard of someone getting the "best of both worlds" in anything really?

I neglected to mention that the majority of her classmates are unable to complete their assignments on time as well from 1 teacher in particular who seems to be totally unrealistic with her time deadlines relative to the workload that she assigns.
To answer your questions:
1. Soccer is highly important. It is her only social outlet. It is her goal to play for a Pac 12 or a SEC school.
2. ECNL - 10-15 hours weekly including commuting.
3. Maybe she could devote more time at school to coursework? But she is very focussed outside of school and eliminates distractions pretty well.
4. We are already dissuading her from taking AP/Honors courses at her future high school to allow her time for soccer and sleep.

It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.
I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
2) How high level is she and how much time will go to soccer?
3) Does your daughter have the mindset to be able to sacrifice time with friend and messing around at school or even outside of school to be able to work on her homework?
$) Have you ever really heard of someone getting the "best of both worlds" in anything really?

 

[Slow Jamin]

Slow Jam...we have been through this also...both of my parents were teachers and my kids have done well academically...If an 8th grader is spending 6 hours on a night doing homework then something is not right...either there was major procrastination on a long-term project now due or there may be comprehension issues...or possibly you might be over estimating...also what does taking away the smart phone teach her???... she has to learn to manage that also...that's how the kids stay connected...some kids do facetime/group study or ask for help on problems via group chats...

Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end. It is not a daily occurrence. IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) . And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination. It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations. The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.

 

[gkrent]

I found that there was way too much homework in middle school and my DD's workloads actually improved in high school

 

[Grace T.]

Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end. It is not a daily occurrence. IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) . And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination. It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations. The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.

It seems pretty clear from your answers that soccer is the priority since that is the route she is going to college on. It also does sound like there might be an issue with one teacher (though you did say in the OP you were going to approach teachers). Re the one, you might have a quiet word with the PTA President and try to get the other parents on board, but confronting the teacher directly is unlikely to get you anywhere and going to the administration will likely make the teacher hostile to your child. As in the work place, different teachers have different philosophies-- you have to be ready for them all. This teacher (since it's 8th grade) is likely a wheat from the chaff type teacher that looks to be getting the kids ready for high school, particularly the high performers. If soccer really is the priority, maybe something has got to give...maybe a B from this teacher really isn't so bad....maybe spending all the extra hours to make sure everything is diligently done isn't worth it. You child is going to have to learn to prioritize along the way. Worst case, it's already March and high school is around the corner..as you say, though, you probably don't want her doing the higher AP level route

 

[ThtGoaldnKeeper]

Or you could accept and explain to her that in APs, a B is not bad and counts as an A GPA wise. It still looks good, and you can challenge her without pushing herself to the max to get an A in that class.