Play High School or Not?

soccer661 said:
It's been said a thousand times -- every kid has their own path/journey so to speak.
Let's not be so judgemental, geez-- whether your kid plays HS or not, whether they choose DA or ECNL, another league, etc...
Can't we just all support one another whatever anyone's INDIVIDUAL decision or situation is, c'mon guys.

My kid played HS for 3 years (while in ECNL) -- the last year (her senior year) club switched over completely to DA and she did not play HS and it was absolutely fine.
(Many of her HS friends choose not to play either -also on the DA teams as well)
For those that did stay-- GREAT-- happy for them, it worked out.
For those that didn't -- again, all GOOD...totally fine. All that matters is: is YOUR kid happy & on the path they want to be on??
And all the girls went to great colleges/universities that they were meant to go to.

Regarding this quote from End:
"Or do you want to be the person who finally steps up and explains why making kids miss 3 days of school the week before finals is such a great idea?"
Ok guys-- Get used to it-- if your kid is going to play in college-- they MUST be able to juggle academics/school work and travel. They must be PROACTIVE with their teachers/professors.
If they play the Thurs/Sunday schedule, they usually travel on Wed-- missing 3 days of school-- quite a bit thru the college fall season.
And NCAA College Cup was also RIGHT before college finals...they have to deal with it. Is the NCAA in the wrong? When else are they supposed to do it??
NCAA Volleyball final four is now-- it is DURING finals-- I know for a fact most of the those girls had to make special arrangements and took their finals early...
It is what it is...I'm not saying it's easy, but if your kid wants to play college --this is the nature of the business.
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I appreciate your attempt. There is a difference between putting up with missing three days of school before finals and wanting to do it. Let me ask you this, do you pull your kid out of school every year right before finals because you think it will help her get ready for the rigors of college? How much extra will you pay for the privilege of forcing your kid to miss school?

We are arguing two different things. You are arguing that you are willing to put up with it, and I don't disagree. But I do disagree to the extent you apparently claim it is such a good a concept that everyone who plays GDA should be forced to miss school before finals. Just answer the question. Are there better weekends to have the showcase? I'd say that I am amazed that no one will concede that it's a bad weekend for the showcase but, then again, USSF agrees with you.
 
MarkM said:
I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions. But you are a liar, and repeatedly. How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30? There is this thing called the internet. People can look that kind of stuff up. Why does someone so righteous have to make things up? Weird, huh?

But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school. My kid seems to be handling it just fine though. Do you know kids that can't handle it? Is your kid struggling? If so, I'm sorry to hear that. My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics. Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.

As to your second point, if your kid is any good, she is playing 90 minutes regardless of whether its DA or ECNL. Based on your comments, it sounds like you really never experience that. Again, I'm sorry to hear that your kid can't ever get 90 minutes in an ECNL game. At any rate, with ECNL, good kids are playing 3, ninety minute games over 3 days. With GDA, kids are playing 3 games over 4 days. You tell me what is better for kids' health?

As to discussion about the pill, I have no clue what you are talking about and I don't care.
Click to expand...

As for you comment about snow, click below:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2016
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2017

Thank you for at least conceding it is not a good idea to miss school; you are the first person to do that. Whether your kid or my kid can handle missing school is not relevant to the question. I'm sure most can put up with it, but being able to put up with something and being a good idea are two very different things. If it were a good idea to make kids miss school before finals, everyone would be doing it, right? Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back, and without a good reason. GDA would be a much better platform if excellent clubs and players weren't leaving it because USSF does things like this. Do you agree with that?

As for game length, no. First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old. Second, sure, there are many bad ECNL and other coaches who will ride players too hard, that is the coach that is the problem, not the platform. When GDA forces all coaches to ride kids too hard, that is the platform that is the problem and not the coach. Third, although reasonable minds may differ, 3 games over 3 days is likely to be better when you properly manage minutes. The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once. If you have studies that show otherwise, I would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals. Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it. Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post. It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk. If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.
 
End of the Line said:
Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back....
Click to expand...
According to whom, you?

End of the Line said:
As for game length, no. First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old.
Click to expand...
At what age does GDA “make kids” play 90 min games and how is it a “year early?

End of the Line said:
would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals. Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it. Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post. It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk. If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.
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I’ll keep this in 3 parts:

1) What makes you and “asshole” (your words, not mine) is not your position, but how you aggressively position it, attack other posters who disagree, deflect into different arguements, contradict yourself, etc....

2) Everyone who’s child plays DA made a choice, almost everyone I know with a DD playing DA are very happy with their decision. There are some who are not and will likely make a move if things don’t improve for their DD. However, not one of the issues they are having has ANYTHING to do with the points you are making. You have a very apocalyptic viewpoint on what girls experience while playing DA, yet apparently have NO actual, tangible experience with it. Only opinion.

My DD (who is off for the next 4 weeks) and I watched our neighbor (an ECNL player) play in her HS game last night. It is their 4th game in just over a week. She played the full 90 min as did 6 other players. She actually has not sat out a minute of any game she has participated in (missed 2 games with a pulled hamstring....one she pulled during HS training). SO.... If you are HONESTLY sooo concerned about all our GDA players health, what aren’t you attacking the COACHES who play players this much with the same “Scientific Evidence” to protect the non GDA players as well?

And as for the 3 days of school, those who traveled to the ECNL event in NC missed 2 days of school a week before finals. So is there a threshold for days missed that doesn’t trigger you?
 
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End of the Line said:
Let me ask you this, do you pull your kid out of school every year right before finals because you think it will help her get ready for the rigors of college? How much extra will you pay for the privilege of forcing your kid to miss school?

.
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So this happens every year?

As for getting ready for finals? If your kid knows in advance that they will be missing finals they can communicate this with their teachers and make proper arrangements.

Does it help them prepare for college. I would argue that it could. My DD is graduating from College this Spring and the rigors of playing soccer in college, practice, travel and a heavy scholastic schedule is anything but easy. Your kid hopefully already has great study habits and is used to studying on the road.
 
Multi Sport said:
So this happens every year?

As for getting ready for finals? If your kid knows in advance that they will be missing finals they can communicate this with their teachers and make proper arrangements.

Does it help them prepare for college. I would argue that it could. My DD is graduating from College this Spring and the rigors of playing soccer in college, practice, travel and a heavy scholastic schedule is anything but easy. Your kid hopefully already has great study habits and is used to studying on the road.
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Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together. They have a schedule for each day that includes: Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings. So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.
 
Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros. Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.
 
Kicker4Life said:
Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together. They have a schedule for each day that includes: Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings. So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.
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We had a similar situation when my son traveled to Dallas Cup. We all stayed in the same hotel, the hotel had a dining room set up for Dallas Cup teams (breakfasts were part of the package), and we went out together for dinner. I don't think anyone actually studied - in my son's school, spring break was the week after we got back so he did his work then (and I believed him when he told me that).
 
Fact said:
Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros. Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.
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I’m sure it’s true and no, it’s not ideal to miss school. But it also isn’t as catastrophic as its being portrayed when handled proactively.

Thanks for the input!
 
Kicker4Life said:
According to whom, you?
Click to expand...

According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
 
MarkM said:
I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions. But you are a liar, and repeatedly. How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30? There is this thing called the internet. People can look that kind of stuff up. Why does someone so righteous have to make things up? Weird, huh?

But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school. My kid seems to be handling it just fine though. Do you know kids that can't handle it? Is your kid struggling? If so, I'm sorry to hear that. My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics. Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.

As to your second point, if your kid is any good, she is playing 90 minutes regardless of whether its DA or ECNL. Based on your comments, it sounds like you really never experience that. Again, I'm sorry to hear that your kid can't ever get 90 minutes in an ECNL game. At any rate, with ECNL, good kids are playing 3, ninety minute games over 3 days. With GDA, kids are playing 3 games over 4 days. You tell me what is better for kids' health?

As to discussion about the pill, I have no clue what you are talking about and I don't care.
Click to expand...
End of the Line said:
As for you comment about snow, click below:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2016
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2017

Thank you for at least conceding it is not a good idea to miss school; you are the first person to do that. Whether your kid or my kid can handle missing school is not relevant to the question. I'm sure most can put up with it, but being able to put up with something and being a good idea are two very different things. If it were a good idea to make kids miss school before finals, everyone would be doing it, right? Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back, and without a good reason. GDA would be a much better platform if excellent clubs and players weren't leaving it because USSF does things like this. Do you agree with that?

As for game length, no. First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old. Second, sure, there are many bad ECNL and other coaches who will ride players too hard, that is the coach that is the problem, not the platform. When GDA forces all coaches to ride kids too hard, that is the platform that is the problem and not the coach. Third, although reasonable minds may differ, 3 games over 3 days is likely to be better when you properly manage minutes. The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once. If you have studies that show otherwise, I would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals. Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it. Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post. It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk. If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.
Click to expand...

Dude, where is the link to April 2018? It was easy to check 2018. I thought you said it snowed the last three years in Commerce? I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying. Why did you lie?

"The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
Click to expand...
I’ve spoken to staff at LAFC/Slammers prior to their move away from DA was announced. It was not for any of your arguments.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
Click to expand...
The Hawks were in DA?
 
MarkM said:
Dude, where is the link to April 2018? It was easy to check 2018. I thought you said it snowed the last three years in Commerce? I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying. Why did you lie?

"The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
Click to expand...

I apologize. It looks like it only snowed the day before in April 2018 and not that much. You got me. An April Showcase in Colorado is the best place for a showcase that weekend.
 
MarkM said:
The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
Click to expand...

This is like deja vu all over again. Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​

But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/th...y-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/ Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.

Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (1, 2), rugby and basketball.​

Your turn Doc. @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him. I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.
Click to expand...
I asked who? As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it). Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons. ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.

I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this. I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)

That reminds me....you still standing by this statement:
End of the Line said:
BTW, I didn't ask you to make a case for GDA over ECNL.
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Yah...didn’t think so.

I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)? Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument? ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.

End of the Line said:
Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
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Ok this seems to be the last argument you can deflect towards. So let’s play jeopardy, I’ll give you 2 answers and you can give me your answer in the form of a question:

Answer #1 is: 61 degrees
Answer #2 is a 3 parter so bear with me:
a) 22%
b) <5%
c) >1%

You can avoid answering these too, if yo wish.....but the rest of you can play along as well if you want.
 
Kicker4Life said:
I asked who? As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it). Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons. ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.

I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this. I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)

That reminds me....you still standing by this statement:

Yah...didn’t think so.

I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)? Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument? ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.


Ok this seems to be the last argument you can deflect towards. So let’s play jeopardy, I’ll give you 2 answers and you can give me your answer in the form of a question:

Answer #1 is: 61 degrees
Answer #2 is a 3 parter so bear with me:
a) 22%
b) <5%
c) >1%

You can avoid answering these too, if yo wish.....but the rest of you can play along as well if you want.
Click to expand...
Why did ACL's come up? :confused:
 
Multi Sport said:
Got it.

Does Michigan have the same school calender as So Cal? I have a sister that lives on the East Coast and the school calendars don't always match up.
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They don’t.
End of the Line said:
This is like deja vu all over again. Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​

But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/th...y-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/ Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.

Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (1, 2), rugby and basketball.​

Your turn Doc. @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him. I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.
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And conversely you’ve provided information that has supported mine......you’re literally arguing against yourself now. #tailspin <zing>
 
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