LOL
Coach Bullying
- Thread starter Bananacorner
- Start date
LOL
Shame on him for his actions and shame on US Soccer for giving him the only DA in Arizona. Best case is US Soccer failed to do any due diligence or worst case they ignored the evidence against this guy. It really calls into question the competence and/or integrity of the USSDA.
Not to go off on a tangent but since the formation of DA, I have noticed an increased pattern of off the field issues being posting on this board of issues that parents are currently navigating, that are legit concerns. These include Minor sex crimes, improper communication with children, coach and club bullying, retaliation by coaches, club failure to communicate or warn parents of improper or illegal behavior, etc. The frequency of these posts is alarming. What concerns me more is that with every post of improper behavior there are those that seek to always be contrarian. Very rarely do they defend the act but rather they marginalize the posters as club bashing lunatics who are posting fake news for some evil agenda. Sure your DD was used as a sexual fantasy by a grown ass man but it’s not that bad cause she was almost 18! No clubs don’t have to warn parents they hired a sex predator because the law says they don’t have too so stop talking about it. It’s ok to call a girl a lazy cun. Because kids are soft and he’s just motivating her.
I guess my question is why? If it’s bullshi. Most will know on here and call it out, but that’s not the case in most instances. Most are issues that we need to discuss openly.
I believe the greatest trick in club soccer is how clubs can play parents against each other, intentionally and unintentionally to their benefit.
I guess my question is why? If it’s bullshi. Most will know on here and call it out, but that’s not the case in most instances. Most are issues that we need to discuss openly.
I believe the greatest trick in club soccer is how clubs can play parents against each other, intentionally and unintentionally to their benefit.
BananaKick
SILVER ELITE
#Nefutous I think you were talking to #Bananacorner I do not know anything about this topic.
I agree with you on the merit. My response would be that there is only so many facts a parent can bring to the table. There is no true way to provide proof or evidence of anything on the forum. There is no smoking gun or illicit documents or thumb drives containing wire transfers, dirty pictures, etc. Most of if not all of what is posted comes from first hand information. Sometimes it is phrased as second hand to further protect identities but it is always a personal issue. If for example another poster can add to or refute a claim than that is fine as the dialogue is further advanced. But what seems to be happening is that denier has no more knowledge or evidence of anything and is merely being a club soccer system protector. I’m not saying it’s you personally. We can agree to disagree and that’s the point. My philosophy is that even mistated or mistaken information has a certain amount of truth to it. That truth is usuful and yes it should be debated but not shouted down. Clubs, coaches, leagues, do not need more protection or benefit of the doubt. They will survive and need to be questioned more not less. Rather than us parents always having to provide clean factual information how about the clubs do it, the league does it, or the coach. They don’t, because they know how to divide and segregate parents. I have soccer nightmares, I can’t sleep so I read this forum all night. Boys and girls side, its just something I’ve noticed...that there’s more now than before supporting the club rather than the parent poster.
Sorry, one too many bananas on my mind. Fixed it.
InTheValley
SILVER
What are you talking about? The original poster apparently lied about a lawsuit for what appears, in retrospect, to be a sales pitch for someone’s book, or so they could get some attention. That they made up a fake lawsuit in which a fake club’s fake coach is fake-ly accused of causing girls PTSD is the very definition of a “club bashing lunatic”, don’t you think? Seriously, if you want to present a “what if” hypothetical for discussion of how a club should handle a problem coach, don’t present it as a serious lawsuit against a DA club that is allowing its coach to cause PTSD to young girls. It is also worth noting that the only actual coach accused of wrongdoing in this thread - the AZ coach - has not been defended by anyone, which does not support your theory.
I know you mean well, but I don’t think you realize who is doing the “bashing” here. You are criticizing people who were skeptical - for good reason it turns out - because they sought factual support and failed to take what turned out to be a lie at face value. In support of your position, you (ironically) attempted to marginalize their legitimate concerns by equating them to alleged posters who as best I can tell don’t exist, but whom you claim go around saying it it ok for coaches to call girls lazy c**ts and who defend child molesters. And who, exactly, is the coach treating my daughter as a sexual fantasy? And which club knew or should have known they hired a sexual predator? If you want to discuss serious issues openly and honestly, the first thing that needs to happen is to stop making things up.
Long live the skeptics.
You’ve been the valley too long dude. I never said bashing. My point is that far too often the conversation that’s needs to be had about anything off the field gets hijacked by those who relate everything back to their own experiences. I’m not talking to you individually intentioned I was not just referring to this thread, I don’t know you or your kid. You are literally making my point for me. I posted that this forum and what people post on it should be debated and discussed. I don’t know each poster and their motives. I don’t know if they are lying or not. What I do want is to have the larger discussion of the topic, any topic. Why are you so irritated? Really, nothing I wrote is that bad. It’s just have the debate. When the current climate is rife with sexualized behavior by adults with young athletes and coaches are either accused of or someone has a experience related to that topic with SoCal soccer, It should be discussed, here. I and many on here can tell of times our kids or teammates were verbally abused, yelled at stories of players crying, forced to quit, illicit texting and emails from coaches. It’s out there. But if parents feel they can’t post that because others ask for facts or proof and belittle that than all we are left with is conformity. When we need more skepticism of everything. Whether or not the facts fit your definition of what is and shouldn’t be mentioned is pointless. Not everyone on here cares about what inside knowledge people have of each post.
Bananacorner
SILVER ELITE
Valley valley valley. Now I’m selling books? Wow. Just... wow.
I think what people are trying to tell you is you’re missing the forest for the trees - you are so far off the topic that no one can even follow you, ok?
You’re skeptical of my story? No one cares. Got it?
I think what people are trying to tell you is you’re missing the forest for the trees - you are so far off the topic that no one can even follow you, ok?
You’re skeptical of my story? No one cares. Got it?
Many years ago I was coaching a Rec Coed U10 team. I said to the players that one of our goals this season was that "everybody" scored at least 1 goal this season. We had a young girl (8) that was smaller than every player, it was her 1st year playing soccer and she was lucky to kick the ball 4 feet if she used everything she had. We were down to 2 games left in the season, everybody but her had scored even though she played forward almost every game. She was sitting back as a defender and got confused and kicked the ball right into our own goal. The goalkeeper didn't have a chance (of course he wasn't expecting it either).
She stood there stunned as what she had done slowly dawned on her. Then the waterworks. She even collapsed to her knees, her head burried in her hands to hide the tears, For the last few minutes she just stood there sobbing.
All I could do from the sideline was tell her to "brush it off, don't worry." She walked back to the sidelines, defeated and tears still in her eyes. But those tears quickly dried up and gave way to a huge smile because her teammates and I were all cheering "We did it, we did it, you scored." I had the kids jumping up and down and dancing (we'll most of them, except for the super-competitive boys (my son) who was confused why I was celebrating an own goal.)
InTheValley
SILVER
The current climate is rife with sexualized behavior? Sure,
there is the occasional bad actor in every profession, but really? So now there a deep state of sexual predators in youth club soccer? A pizzagate tunnel between Blues and Slammers so that Clinton, er Baker, can cause little girls PTSD?
I’m totally happy to discuss facts, if you can ever point one out. Let’s discuss one of these illicit texts or emails, for example. If they’re real and as nefarious as you say, don’t you have an obligation to tell people lest other children get subjected to similar nefariousness? Let’s expose these deep staters once and for all. Maybe we can finally prove that Baker and Obama eat children when no one is looking.
Again nothing I said I bad. I just said more debate that’s it. Clearly we have a breakdown in understanding. So I will type using smaller words for you. I don’t know Baker, don’t know Clinton. And I don’t know What the F your talking about or why your a dick. Maybe you didn’t get enough hugs from your parents. If you believe that youth soccer is all rainbows and sunshine and no kid is subject to Asshat coaches and clubs doing weird and borderline stuff with players than great for you. Clearly our experiences have been different. I heard AYSO is super chill so no wonder. You like Facts, here’s one for you. Next time your DD makes a national team training lmk and we can talk about this further. Til then A hole.
InTheValley
SILVER
So we agree then that you don’t have any factual basis for anything you’re saying? We agree, right?
Are you seeing the irony that you accuse fake coaches of using foul language to bully people, you also accuse people like me of bullying by questioning obvious false misrepresentations, and yet here you are the one using the foul language. I feel so victimized. Must be time for a lawsuit.
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
You are right about blaming US Soccer fro giving him the only DA in Arizona but how about the parents that allowed him to abuse their kids.
How about Shame on the parents to say " Well, it's DA so let;'s just have him bully our kids?". Wait, this kind of happened with the gymnastics coach.. We always blame others but never ourselves.
Locally a few year back there was a coach that was very good but would make kids cry by yelling (screaming) in the middle of the games. The team split up and a new coach emerged and moved to a new club. The screamer coach tried to regroup but only lasted 1 more year as a coach. Basically the parents in the area had heard about his antics and decided to not take their kids to that team.
Bottom line, parents can have some control to take some of these idiots away from soccer.
@SoccerFan4Life,
The problem with your thought process it that it ignores the reality that parents often don't find out about the abuse until after it has happened. Generally speaking, once kids reach the U15 to U19 stage, parents are not sitting in their beach chairs watching practices. They drop the kid off and come back after practice. The U-Little parents sit there, but the vast majority of parents don't. To the extent parents are watching practices, they are often so far away that they have no idea what a coach is saying to the players. Most high level competitive players have fairly thick skins and don't tell their parents of statements or events because they have the attitude of "suck it up, brush it off."
To top it off, many coaches that engage is "bully" and over-the-line "abuse" do it infrequently. Its often a pattern that increases over time. Its not like these guys are screaming and calling their players cunts, pussies and fat asses, dickless wonders, etc., all the time AND definitely not in ear shot of the parents.
So, yes, a parent has responsibility to take action after they have learned of the conduct and can be blamed if they knowingly put their child under the supervision of a "bully coach" but unless that parent receives a report from their player and/or witnesses the abuse, they tend to be oblivious to the issue.
The problem with your thought process it that it ignores the reality that parents often don't find out about the abuse until after it has happened. Generally speaking, once kids reach the U15 to U19 stage, parents are not sitting in their beach chairs watching practices. They drop the kid off and come back after practice. The U-Little parents sit there, but the vast majority of parents don't. To the extent parents are watching practices, they are often so far away that they have no idea what a coach is saying to the players. Most high level competitive players have fairly thick skins and don't tell their parents of statements or events because they have the attitude of "suck it up, brush it off."
To top it off, many coaches that engage is "bully" and over-the-line "abuse" do it infrequently. Its often a pattern that increases over time. Its not like these guys are screaming and calling their players cunts, pussies and fat asses, dickless wonders, etc., all the time AND definitely not in ear shot of the parents.
So, yes, a parent has responsibility to take action after they have learned of the conduct and can be blamed if they knowingly put their child under the supervision of a "bully coach" but unless that parent receives a report from their player and/or witnesses the abuse, they tend to be oblivious to the issue.
Yep, and the article re: the AZ coach illustrates that point. Parents were concerned about speaking out for fear of losing a college scholarship. In most cases, parents are aware to some extent of the bullying (inappropriate relations on the other hand is typically not known). It's not like a coach is evil at practice and a saint at games. Typically it is the other way around when the game is on the line. There are some parents that are afraid to "rock the boat" with the club for fear of missing out on some opportunity that's likely not even realistic but has been promised by the club's marketing materials or used car salesman coach. (I'm talking about legit bullying and intimidation of kids by adults, not a coach pushing his kids hard, or some well executed yelling). Or there are parents believe that the "end justifies the means" if there kid gets a college scholarship or national team exposure. Plenty of blame to go around but we as parents do give Clubs/Coaches more power over our lives than they deserve.
On a tangent here, it seems like there are way too many parents that consider soccer a way to pay for college. I would be stoked if my son got a scholarship for soccer, but that is just a bonus and is not a long-term plan to finance college...its certainly nothing I'm remotely counting on. IMO college should be something you start planning for at the birth of the kid (like a 529 plan), and not something that you start hoping for in high school that a college will show up to pay your kid to play.
Agreed. Parents should speak up. But the minute you say a word, or even ask a question, your child is in jeopardy of punishment-further abuse, benched, or kicked off the team and you are labelled the jerk. Your reputation follows you. For the most part, Clubs side with coaches, not parents, even in the most extreme cases as we have read about lately. For every parent who complains, there are two willing to make a donation. It's a twisted world. Thankfully we have amazing coaches and so don't have this problem.
Last edited:
TangoCity
GOLD
Video tape it. Then take it to club. Then bump it up to next level if need be.
Currently we luckily have found great coaches for our kids so do not have this problem ourselves. But that is a good suggestion for those who haven’t. But mostly you just leave and seek out the great coaches. my point being, it’s difficult and mostly pointless to speak up.
Last edited:
InTheValley
SILVER
Before letting your child play under any coach, you have an obligation to perform sufficient due diligence to determine the coach is an “abuser” or “bully” under whatever standard those words mean to you. If you don’t or can’t do that, at least stick around at enough practice until you are satisfied with the situation. If you don’t, you can only blame yourself.
If you are the sort of parent who believes raising your voice ever or dropping an occasional f bomb is inexcusable and merits a lawsuit or punching the coach in the face, there is nothing stopping you from addressing your expectations with the coach at the outset. If they’re a screamer or gravitate toward the more colorful spectrum and are not willing to accommodate you, I’m confident you will agree you are in the wrong place.
Obviously, there are times a parent does their part, but inappropriate verbal conduct still happens. No one has perfect information and coaches are people too; sometimes they go off the deep end. You cannot prevent your child from being exposed to every ill-advised comment in advance but, if you did your due diligence, odds are that it is an isolated incident and nothing to lose sleep over. A few stupid, mean, or “bullying” (if that is the conclusory, factually lacking, but explosive terminology you prefer) comments will never cause anyone permanent neurological damage. If you believe differently, that’s fine with me, but you can’t expect others to share your zero tolerance standard, your significant deviation from societal norms, and some solid research that a strict rainbow and butterfly approach is not the best way to benefit an elite athlete or even raise a child. Also don’t expect people who know a coach not to defend him, especially if you trash them with conclusory words like “bullying” or “abuse” that don’t identify the specific behavior. If you are going to bomb throw incendiary words at coaches, you owe it to everyone involved to explain the basis for that. If you aren’t confident enough that your facts justify your opinion, don’t state your opinion and then jump down the throat of those who ask you to support your serious allegations.
But let’s say a pattern of inapppropriate behavior develops despite your best efforts. The parent absolutely has an obligation to know it is happening and to stop it before it gets out of hand. Hopefully, everyone is asking more penetrating questions of their children than “how was practice” before moving on to the equally unhelpful question “how was school”? Ask specific questions that require them to provide answers with specific details that they can't just blow off. What did you work on today? Man, it looked like your coach was in a bit of a mood last game, what’s the deal? How is Bella doing? Coach seemed pretty frustrated with her. What did they talk about? Your teammates looked pretty grim walking to the car after practice; what’s the deal? Why was Bella crying? And don’t always ask soccer questions right after soccer practice. Get them when they’re in a chatty mood. If you can’t get out of your child that her coach is verbally abusing her, it is time for self reflection.
If you are afraid to do anything about a dangerous situation because you are worried about harming your reputation or that your daughter will get blackballed, or you are videotaping a coach to prove to others that your daughter is in a dangerous place, man you have lost perspective.
If you are the sort of parent who believes raising your voice ever or dropping an occasional f bomb is inexcusable and merits a lawsuit or punching the coach in the face, there is nothing stopping you from addressing your expectations with the coach at the outset. If they’re a screamer or gravitate toward the more colorful spectrum and are not willing to accommodate you, I’m confident you will agree you are in the wrong place.
Obviously, there are times a parent does their part, but inappropriate verbal conduct still happens. No one has perfect information and coaches are people too; sometimes they go off the deep end. You cannot prevent your child from being exposed to every ill-advised comment in advance but, if you did your due diligence, odds are that it is an isolated incident and nothing to lose sleep over. A few stupid, mean, or “bullying” (if that is the conclusory, factually lacking, but explosive terminology you prefer) comments will never cause anyone permanent neurological damage. If you believe differently, that’s fine with me, but you can’t expect others to share your zero tolerance standard, your significant deviation from societal norms, and some solid research that a strict rainbow and butterfly approach is not the best way to benefit an elite athlete or even raise a child. Also don’t expect people who know a coach not to defend him, especially if you trash them with conclusory words like “bullying” or “abuse” that don’t identify the specific behavior. If you are going to bomb throw incendiary words at coaches, you owe it to everyone involved to explain the basis for that. If you aren’t confident enough that your facts justify your opinion, don’t state your opinion and then jump down the throat of those who ask you to support your serious allegations.
But let’s say a pattern of inapppropriate behavior develops despite your best efforts. The parent absolutely has an obligation to know it is happening and to stop it before it gets out of hand. Hopefully, everyone is asking more penetrating questions of their children than “how was practice” before moving on to the equally unhelpful question “how was school”? Ask specific questions that require them to provide answers with specific details that they can't just blow off. What did you work on today? Man, it looked like your coach was in a bit of a mood last game, what’s the deal? How is Bella doing? Coach seemed pretty frustrated with her. What did they talk about? Your teammates looked pretty grim walking to the car after practice; what’s the deal? Why was Bella crying? And don’t always ask soccer questions right after soccer practice. Get them when they’re in a chatty mood. If you can’t get out of your child that her coach is verbally abusing her, it is time for self reflection.
If you are afraid to do anything about a dangerous situation because you are worried about harming your reputation or that your daughter will get blackballed, or you are videotaping a coach to prove to others that your daughter is in a dangerous place, man you have lost perspective.