What to do with a talented but undisciplined teammate?

C

CaliR1

BRONZE
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that's a very common situation and if you figure out a solution you would be a hugely successful U10 coach.
My advice is to support your little guy to play his position as best he can and let him figure out for himself how to work with this other player to make him a better team player. Only the very rare 10 year old will do that well, but as the years go on, learning that type of skill is probably the most valuable thing a kid can learn in youth sports.
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...
Just let things play out.

Getting players to hold in a position is one thing that most coaches can address over time.
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...

You're talking about 9 year olds? Buckle up! You don't start to see collectively shape and awareness till much later. Plus CBs and the CDM are usually the first to look the most organized. Everyone else really isn't super aware of channels, etc. Are they running a 4-3-1? Also are you the coach? Are they playing up a year? Isn't 9v9 not until U11?
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...

My son makes the same comments about a few teammates who drift in the midfield. I remind him that when a teammate leaves space that the teammate should be minding, it gives my son the opportunity to demonstrate his range. It is an unsatisfying comment but it emphasizes the only option he has. This is a coaching issue even at the high school age groups. Perhaps remind your son to be patient with his teammates, and speak with the coach about what he can do in these situations rather than being critical of teammates. That is an indirect message to the coach to take action and coach up the drifters.
 
Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:
My son makes the same comments about a few teammates who drift in the midfield. I remind him that when a teammate leaves space that the teammate should be minding, it gives my son the opportunity to demonstrate his range. It is an unsatisfying comment but it emphasizes the only option he has. This is a coaching issue even at the high school age groups. Perhaps remind your son to be patient with his teammates, and speak with the coach about what he can do in these situations rather than being critical of teammates. That is an indirect message to the coach to take action and coach up the drifters.
Click to expand...

These are 9 year olds -- likely in 4th grade :)

Assuming a reputable club -- I'm sure the coach knows what's going on. It takes time to teach positional awareness, space/time, etc. Throw in the fact that all 9 year olds want to do is score.....it's like herding cats. It also depends on the formation. It's probably easier to roll with a 3-2-3 than a 4-3-1. But, a 4-3-1 is probably better long term. A 3-2-3 makes the shape a little more clear to the players. Having to navigate having a 6,8,10 is much more complex -- throw in wingbacks....
 
NorCalDad said:
These are 9 year olds -- likely in 4th grade :)

Assuming a reputable club -- I'm sure the coach knows what's going on. It takes time to teach positional awareness, space/time, etc. Throw in the fact that all 9 year olds want to do is score.....it's like herding cats. It also depends on the formation. It's probably easier to roll with a 3-2-3 than a 4-3-1. But, a 4-3-1 is probably better long term. A 3-2-3 makes the shape a little more clear to the players. Having to navigate having a 6,8,10 is much more complex -- throw in wingbacks....
Click to expand...
Oh for sure! Very young. But getting a kid as early as possible to communicate with a coach in a constructive manner is a huge benefit of the sport.
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...
Just chuckle and cheer.

This matters not in the slightest.

I'm not being condescending at all when I say that.

My soccer player is grown now and, besides an occasional college alumni game, her playing days are probably behind her, which means my soccer parent days are done as well. There's a lot I would go back and tell my younger soccer-parent-self if I could. Don't even bother getting worked up over anything related to tactics or skills or strategy while they are in the "youngers" age groups (basically anything below U15). And then when they get older? Well, don't worry about it then, either.

You gave your son the best advice you could and that's good enough. All you should be focusing on right now is where to pick up ice cream after the game and kicking the ball around with your kid while you still can. Really. You just have one job, and that's to foster your child's joy and enthusiasm for the game by being relentlessly positive and unendingly supportive. Sometimes that means talking tactics and strategy and giving him advice on how to handle situations on the field even if you don't know jack about it. But the content of those conversations is meangingless. It's the fact that you're THERE, talking with him and showing interest in him and supporting him. Fifteen years from now, he won't be any better off for you giving him superb soccer tactical advice when he was 9. But he will be unmeasurably better for you just being there and trying to help as best you can and always cheering.

At 9 years old, you're lucky if there is any semblance of formation and structure on the field at all. When the talented but "undisciplined" kid is running all over the field, just chuckle to yourself and cheer. When your kid tries his best but gets frustrated, just chuckle and cheer. When the ref makes a bad call? When the coach makes a stupid decision or benches your kid? When other parents go ballistic on the sideline? Yep, chuckle and cheer...

Good luck on the journey!
 
TopesWin said:
Unfortunately, that's a very common situation and if you figure out a solution you would be a hugely successful U10 coach.
My advice is to support your little guy to play his position as best he can and let him figure out for himself how to work with this other player to make him a better team player. Only the very rare 10 year old will do that well, but as the years go on, learning that type of skill is probably the most valuable thing a kid can learn in youth sports.
Click to expand...
Good to know that this is a common issue. It is funny cause my son has always shown a tendency toward defense so he is perfectly fine with playing defensive midfield...I told him about how important Rodri is to Man City and he got doubly excited. He does not like giving up goals and I am worried that he will get frustrated having to cover so much space on defense. I did tell him that having a such a talented teammate is a benefit to the team (kid is an excellent all around player...just overly aggressive) so it is his job to help the team by playing his position well and maintain a discipline defense.
 
NorCalDad said:
You're talking about 9 year olds? Buckle up! You don't start to see collectively shape and awareness till much later. Plus CBs and the CDM are usually the first to look the most organized. Everyone else really isn't super aware of channels, etc. Are they running a 4-3-1? Also are you the coach? Are they playing up a year? Isn't 9v9 not until U11?
Click to expand...
Fortunately, my AYSO coaching days are behind me. The team coaches are quite good so I trust them to handle the situation. I can see the difficulty cause you do not want to dampen the energy and abilities of talented players, even if they are undisciplined.

They are running a 3-4-1 with my son and the other kid playing MF.

They played 7v7 in the fall and are working to play 9v9 in the spring...my son likes it more cause there is more space and more emphasize on MF play. He is not the biggest, fastest, or the most skilled kid but he is smart and wants to play defense.
 
NorCalDad said:
These are 9 year olds -- likely in 4th grade :)

Assuming a reputable club -- I'm sure the coach knows what's going on. It takes time to teach positional awareness, space/time, etc. Throw in the fact that all 9 year olds want to do is score.....it's like herding cats. It also depends on the formation. It's probably easier to roll with a 3-2-3 than a 4-3-1. But, a 4-3-1 is probably better long term. A 3-2-3 makes the shape a little more clear to the players. Having to navigate having a 6,8,10 is much more complex -- throw in wingbacks....
Click to expand...
They are playing a 3-4-1...but probably best to treat it like a 3-1-3-1 with my son playing that defensive midfield position. The kids on the team have done a pretty good job maintaining their positions but always interesting to see the CB drift forward past my son or the Wings/Backers being mysteriously absent on defense. But definitely a good time for my son to learn how to communicate with his teammates on setting up.
 
Mystery Train said:
Just chuckle and cheer.

This matters not in the slightest.

I'm not being condescending at all when I say that.

My soccer player is grown now and, besides an occasional college alumni game, her playing days are probably behind her, which means my soccer parent days are done as well. There's a lot I would go back and tell my younger soccer-parent-self if I could. Don't even bother getting worked up over anything related to tactics or skills or strategy while they are in the "youngers" age groups (basically anything below U15). And then when they get older? Well, don't worry about it then, either.

You gave your son the best advice you could and that's good enough. All you should be focusing on right now is where to pick up ice cream after the game and kicking the ball around with your kid while you still can. Really. You just have one job, and that's to foster your child's joy and enthusiasm for the game by being relentlessly positive and unendingly supportive. Sometimes that means talking tactics and strategy and giving him advice on how to handle situations on the field even if you don't know jack about it. But the content of those conversations is meangingless. It's the fact that you're THERE, talking with him and showing interest in him and supporting him. Fifteen years from now, he won't be any better off for you giving him superb soccer tactical advice when he was 9. But he will be unmeasurably better for you just being there and trying to help as best you can and always cheering.

At 9 years old, you're lucky if there is any semblance of formation and structure on the field at all. When the talented but "undisciplined" kid is running all over the field, just chuckle to yourself and cheer. When your kid tries his best but gets frustrated, just chuckle and cheer. When the ref makes a bad call? When the coach makes a stupid decision or benches your kid? When other parents go ballistic on the sideline? Yep, chuckle and cheer...

Good luck on the journey!
Click to expand...
Excellent advice all around...I am involved with other types of activities with my older one and I look back at the younger generation and their parents and just tell them...relax and enjoy the ride.
 
Mystery Train said:
Just chuckle and cheer.

This matters not in the slightest.
Click to expand...

Eh, I fully get the intent of what you're saying but (hypothetically) after 2 years of seeing the CDM try to dribble through 8 guys on the other team only to lose the ball and then your kid (midfielder) now on an island by himself with a full counter from the other team... and coach not addressing that... it's not a chuckling matter... You start to lose the joy and fun of playing... I can see that player/family leaving the team/club... again, hypothetically :p
 
CaliR1 said:
Hi everyone:

My son is in U10 and plays defensive midfield (9v9). He has a very talented teammate who also plays midfield but is extremely undisciplined in holding his position as he is ultra-aggressive and tend to go all over the field. He is an excellent player but it causes my son issues as to where/how he should play?

Based upon my limited knowledge of soccer tactics, I told him to basically track his teammate but maintain discipline in his position as there will be a high chance of counter attacks.

Curious to see what advice/suggestion you all have on the topics.

Thanks ahead of time!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry - I wouldn't be able to take that.
They're young so I get that's going to happen a lot of the times... maybe even 50% of the time... but if that's nearing 100% of the time... I'm gone.
The kid is just treating rest of 17 players as training cones on the field.
That would frustrate me so much and my kid wouldn't enjoy playing with that type of selfish player.
 
Socal-Soccer-Dad said:
I'm sorry - I wouldn't be able to take that.
They're young so I get that's going to happen a lot of the times... maybe even 50% of the time... but if that's nearing 100% of the time... I'm gone.
The kid is just treating rest of 17 players as training cones on the field.
That would frustrate me so much and my kid wouldn't enjoy playing with that type of selfish player.
Click to expand...
Yeah...it does frustrate me to see it. On the one hand, the kid is so good that it makes the team as a whole so much better. On the other hand, it really puts my son on an island at times and frustrates him because he really really hates giving up goals.

I hope that the problem will work itself out because it is becoming obvious he cannot dribble through the entire team anymore and that he need pass more. The question is if and when he understands this.

I am just going to try to make this as much of a teaching moment as possible.
 
Socal-Soccer-Dad said:
Eh, I fully get the intent of what you're saying but (hypothetically) after 2 years of seeing the CDM try to dribble through 8 guys on the other team only to lose the ball and then your kid (midfielder) now on an island by himself with a full counter from the other team... and coach not addressing that... it's not a chuckling matter... You start to lose the joy and fun of playing... I can see that player/family leaving the team/club... again, hypothetically :p
Click to expand...
What you're describing is a situation where a coach isn't doing his job over the course of an entrie season or more. That's a different problem than what the OP described. Sure, if the kid's enthusiasm is suffering because of some lack of coaching or tactical or strategic understanding, then the OP should absolutely should consider moving teams. But at U10, you're gonna see a wide range of kids at different levels of soccer IQ and skill and natural ability, so a big dollop of patience is going to be necessary. I'm not advocating sitting back and never getting involved, I'm just saying don't get too worked up at the early stages about much of anything and you'll all do better in the long run. As a parent navigating youth soccer, you have to be able to identify the issues that are worth getting involved in and those that are not. A temporary situation where someone else's kid is not understanding the proper tactics of his position and getting away with it because he's "talented" is one thing. A coach who can't coach is another.
 
Mystery Train said:
What you're describing is a situation where a coach isn't doing his job over the course of an entrie season or more. That's a different problem than what the OP described. Sure, if the kid's enthusiasm is suffering because of some lack of coaching or tactical or strategic understanding, then the OP should absolutely should consider moving teams. But at U10, you're gonna see a wide range of kids at different levels of soccer IQ and skill and natural ability, so a big dollop of patience is going to be necessary. I'm not advocating sitting back and never getting involved, I'm just saying don't get too worked up at the early stages about much of anything and you'll all do better in the long run. As a parent navigating youth soccer, you have to be able to identify the issues that are worth getting involved in and those that are not. A temporary situation where someone else's kid is not understanding the proper tactics of his position and getting away with it because he's "talented" is one thing. A coach who can't coach is another.
Click to expand...

I think the situation is very difficult for a coach to handle especially at this age...the talented kid makes the team really good and the parents happy cause they win but it also leaves certain players/parents (i.e. me) frustrated. I guess it is like watching Vini Jr. as a RM fan.
 
Socal-Soccer-Dad said:
Eh, I fully get the intent of what you're saying but (hypothetically) after 2 years of seeing the CDM try to dribble through 8 guys on the other team only to lose the ball and then your kid (midfielder) now on an island by himself with a full counter from the other team... and coach not addressing that... it's not a chuckling matter... You start to lose the joy and fun of playing... I can see that player/family leaving the team/club... again, hypothetically :p
Click to expand...
Sounds like the CDM has low IQ and/or inflated ego.
 
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