|
US Soccer: "Our Proposal for Equal Pay for Women & Men"
- Thread starter MWN
- Start date
Soccerfan2
GOLD
US Soccer has obviously not long been committed to fair and equitable compensation. That is not a good faith statement.
Additionally, US soccer is sitting on $130 million cash reserves (FIFA on $2.7 BILLION) and the women are the primary drivers of market growth over the past 5 years.
I do hope Cordeiro proves to be the “tireless advocate for the expansion of women’s soccer at home and abroad” that he claims. It sure seems like he is passing on his first big opportunity.
Additionally, US soccer is sitting on $130 million cash reserves (FIFA on $2.7 BILLION) and the women are the primary drivers of market growth over the past 5 years.
I do hope Cordeiro proves to be the “tireless advocate for the expansion of women’s soccer at home and abroad” that he claims. It sure seems like he is passing on his first big opportunity.
Unfortunately, US Soccer has lost all benefit of the doubt with most soccer people so I'm skeptical of it being actual "identical compensation". The fact is none of us know, but very few trust US Soccer based on its track record. It might be an identical percentage of World Cup revenues, which doesn't equate to identical compensation (not weighing in on whether identical $ compensation is warranted). While not denying that FIFA's pay structure is a legitimate fact, of many facts in this issue, US Soccer can't just use FIFA as a scapegoat. Of the sponsorship dollars that US Soccer receives I can't imagine the bulk of those $ are being driven by the men's team. I have to believe the women provide much more exposure for US Soccer than the men. Anecdotally, I see way more commercials with US women players than men, in fact I can't recall a recent commercial with a US men's player...maybe Pulisic.
I'm normally skeptical of gender equity pay claims. However, in this case I think the women have a huge PR advantage in this one because of their relative results on the field. Although when I've seen the women (mostly Rapinoe) interviewed regarding their claim they don't do the best job articulating their position. At the end of the day, individual facts may not matter in this case particularly if it goes to trial. Both sides will provide their "hired gun" experts that will contradict and cancel each other and the jury will likely be more sympathetic to the women.
Keepermom2
GOLD
They have not made an offer to compensate for their past wrongs. This is a class action lawsuit so the promise for the future is only one piece of the pie. In addition, making the offer the night before the women's game against Spain doesn't appear to be an attempt in good faith negotiations.
Washington Post November 12, 2019- "For years, the USWNT has made less money for more and better work and has been treated worse for it. A judge has recognized that. Next, a jury can make the federation accountable for it — with back pay and punitive rewards for every little slight and baked-in sexist assumption inflicted on every individual in the entire class of plaintiffs, which includes any woman who has been called up to a training camp since 2015. If the federation was smart, which it isn’t, it would recognize the size of the bill about to come due. "
"Even more significantly, the judge flatly rejected the federation’s main legal defense on the pay disparity issue as “absurd.” And the jury trial doesn’t even start until May 5. "
"What is likely to rile a jury just as much are the crummy little details of their treatment claimed in the suit. In 2017, the men’s team was pampered with charter flights on 17 occasions. It did not charter-fly the women’s team even once. Players consider charter flights a major reprieve and factor in physical recovery, as they allow for more rest before and after games, with no long waits or missed connections in airports. This injury, the judge noted, “is concrete.”
From Guardian July 2019
"Before getting into the revenue arguments, it’s worth considering whether revenue should matter at all.
Both US Soccer and Fifa are not-for-profit organizations with stated missions to grow soccer in the US and globally, respectively. Their benchmarks of success are not profits. Rather, they aim to get more people playing, watching and caring about the sport. That requires a lot of investment, which is the opposite of chasing short-term profits.
Without investment (or, in other words, losing money), there’s no way for women’s soccer to grow. After all, men’s soccer has at least a hundred-year head start on the women’s version of the game. Women’s soccer was banned in England, the country that invented the modern game, until 1971. Other countries also banned it, including Brazil until 1981 and Germany until 1970. The question is whether non-profit organizations should ignore their mission of growing the women’s game because it doesn’t have as robust of a foundation as men’s soccer.
Fifa, by the way, has cash reserves of $2.8bn. US Soccer reportedly has a surplus of $150m."
Isn't the biggest potential for growth of the game in women's soccer?
This will not go to trial. 95% of lawsuits get settled behind closed doors. My buddy told me about the process. Big time lawyers (really good at negotiating) get together with both parties in separate rooms and they get a deal done. The job of the lawyers is to make you sweat it out and drain your brain and then make you cave to take pennies or give pennies, depending on if the plaintiff has any value to their claims. It;s the system we live in. Once depositions get started and you get folks under oath, it's game on. That's how each side determines what the actual value they have in the case. Again, the truth lies in the middle and no case is 100%. I see this about 98% for the woman. Carlos is clueless. This process is brutal though. Lawyers peal your skin back through "salt tactics" and look for traps and lies. Video camera and the good book to swear on to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God." We should also all consider how much all these WNT players, present and past, have sacrificed their time and bodies through hard work and determination. Most of the past players made hardly any money. They had to go find coaching jobs if they wanted to stay in the game they loved. What about our DDs and our grand daughters? "The country is watching" what US Soccer and the Federation are up to and 98% of us what some radical change. The 2% or so (I'm just making this # up) have all the power and control (all the money) and when you have all the money you have all the power. When you have the power, you get to make the rules as you see fit and or a new way to make a few bucks too. It's time to share the real loot with the girls at the top and separate the sheep among the goats. $250,000 for Docs to bring their top players over?????Then, if a sheep or a sheep team wants to be a goat or a goat team, they have to beat the goats out and then they can move up. Time to stop all the sheep hiding among the goats. Let me be clear, maybe my goat is a sheep? I'm open to that possibility and will shake the goat dad's hands (fist pump) proudly and wish his family success and his dd success in da pros and YNT or whatever country they end up playing for. Goats need to play with other goats. Then pure goat cream will rise to the top. It's quite simple really if your willing to go head to head in competition. Not a juggling act or go through cones skills test at TC center, but a fierce competition (scrimmage) for bragging rights on the actual game being played.
Sorry, but US Soccer should not and has no obligation to pay the difference between the FIFA award for the Women's World Cup and the Men's World Cup. That is the issue. If the women are being offered the same deal as the men why are they not accepting it? 2 entirely different competitions, 2 different profit structures. If the women think they are entitled to the same money go talk to FIFA otherwise go try out for the MNT. Where I work a women gets paid the same as me for doing the same work. The WWC and the MWC are NOT the same work. They also don't bring in the same revenue.
The woman are the one's who help the little girls sign up and then the parents spend $10K a yea or more. The woman are the ones who are winning. I could care a less about MNT. They suck!!! No wins bro. No world cup last time either. MLS is a joke. I was at great park last night and a saw this red team practicing. All red. My gosh.........Please!!! Pay the girls now!!!!! Plus, 80% of the one's who don;t make it quit because asshole men are screaming and yelling at them all the time and telling them who they should be when their 7. They quit at 16 or quit as freshman in college. Only a very few find success. Many of these girls face depression and feel like a failure all because some dudes are trying to get rich. Fix it now!!!!
Keepermom2
GOLD
Actually US Soccer has only offered equal pay for the future and not reimbursement for the equal pay and treatment that should have happened for the past excluding the issue with FIFA not paying equal payment for World Cup wins. I presume the FIFA portion of the their request will be thrown out at some point. I think it is there for shock value that will help them get damages for the valid complaints of unequal payment and treatment over the past years.
sweeperkeeper
SILVER
You realize that the difference from FIFA and the World Cup is that the men's tournament generates significantly more revenue than the women's. The high level numbers I have seen, the men's tournament generates 4 times the viewership than the women.
Is someone going to start saying that softball players should be paid the same as baseball players? What about the fact that the WNT loses to most boys academy U-17 teams? Should those U-17 players be paid the same as the women?
In the end, sports is all about entertainment and getting dollars for people to watch athletes do an activity. This is true in every sport.
I have no idea how to make this equitable.... You either pay them the same in dollar terms which means the men are subsidizing the women or you do it on revenue and the women get less and we are back to square 1.
A few corrections. The USWNT player's do not scrimmage against U17 boys ... at least not in the last decade ... they would lose to all boys DA 16+ teams (but we will never know because they don't schedule against the olders). Historically its always been U14 and U15 DA and ODP. At U16+, the game is far too fast and the boys "too manly" for the USWNT to gain any value. In the old days before the DA ... it was always ODP BU14 and BU15 because while these boys were faster, they were still underweight and did little potential damage to the women in collisions.
Softball v. Baseball - Yes, that is the basic argument, but a weak one because we are talking about the National team, paid by the same employer (so to speak). The real difference, which seems to fly under the radar is the USWNT are W-2 employees and paid to play in the NWSL per their collective bargain agreement, whereas, the men do not receive a "salary" like the women, but are paid on a per diem/game basis. What irks me is the women negotiated a deal and now are saying ... "Oh f@#$%, you know that deal we all negotiated under our collective bargaining agreement? Yaaaa! that one!!! We don't like it now that we see the men really do men suck compared to internationals and we are awesome, so rather than living by the terms of our agreement, we want to sue and claim unequal treatment (that we negotiated ... oops).
The solution to make this "equal" is really simple and a solution that has been proposed. Here it is:
Step 1 - USWNT and USMNT are treated as a single team ... One Nation, One Team.
Step 2 - All monies received by either team are put in a single pot.
Step 3 - All players are paid an equal amount based on their participation in camps, games, etc.
Step 4 - The USWNT team deal where the stars are treated as W2 employees for their time in the NWSL ends.
Step 5 - All players, regardless of WNT or MNT are paid an equal percentage of the FIFA prizes. Thus, the women to well, the men get paid equally. If the men do well, the women get paid equally. We apply a pro-rata distribution to the players of both yearly based on a common pool.
The solution above, requires we treat the Men and Women's team as a single team and distribute funds equally.
The fundamental problem with the above is we are going to lose some of the men who are going to say "F' that, why would I leave my multi-million dollar Chelsea contract to play for a USMNT that won't do shit." No thanks. We have to live with this problem and just deal with it and hope our men international put country over dollars/euros/pounds.
Keepermom2
GOLD
Yeah I don't see how they have a leg to stand on with FIFA bonuses and asking US to make up the difference. Doesn't make sense to me but would it make sense to a jury?
Speaking of the entertainment factor...the women's US ticket sales exceeded the men's ticket sales for games played in the US and;
"On Sunday, a crowd of nearly 60,000 people gathered at France’s Parc Olympique Lyonnais to watch as the U.S. Women’s National Soccer Team (USWNT) defeated the Netherlands 2-0 in the 2019 FIFA Women’s World Cup Final. Back in the U.S., millions more were watching. According to a statement from Fox Sports, citing data from Nielsen, approximately 14.3 million U.S. viewers tuned in to the final match on television, compared to 11.4 million for the 2018 Men’s World Cup Final, a 22% U.S. viewership boost. Fox Sports’ statement reports that total viewership, including online streaming, peaked at roughly 20 million, making it the most-watched soccer match on English-language television, men’s or women’s, in the U.S. since the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup final, which delivered 25.4 million viewers."
I guess people find them more entertaining. I am pretty sure the above information is why the women's team didn't feel their original employment agreement was appropriate.
As I previously posted, FIFA and US Soccer are non profit organizations with their purpose being to grow the game and viewership not maximize profits.
So your arguments/examples are not only trying to match apples to oranges but, equate to men deserve more money than the women because women are the weaker sex. The 60's must have been good years for you. LOL Insert my theme song by Helen Reddy. hahaha
Last edited:
"On behalf of U.S. Soccer, I sincerely apologize for the offense and pain caused by language in this week's court filing, which did not reflect the values of our Federation or our tremendous admiration of our Women's National Team," Cordeiro said in the statement. "Our WNT players are incredibly talented and work tirelessly, as they have demonstrated time and again from their Olympic Gold medals to their World Cup titles." Carlos-
Well, it's a start........
Well, it's a start........
Please, please protect all the girls from monsters in soccer
swimswam.com
Kukors Smith Settles Lawsuit With USA Swimming, Hutchison
Olympian Ariana Kukors Smith has settled her lawsuit against USA Swimming over sexual abuse she says she suffered at the hands of former coach Sean Hutchison.
swimswam.com
These guys don;t give diddly squat for our DDs
What does the phrase diddly squat mean?
The original form (from the 1930s) is doodly-squat. Doodly is hypothesised to mean either worthless (from doodle) or excrement (from do one's do, which sounds implausible). Squat is used as an intensifier and is probably a euphemism (both in sound and meaning) for shit
Dos Equis
GOLD
It should be the end of US Soccer as we know it.
As someone who was conflicted on this issue, given the obvious differences in the two games and global markets, US Soccer's legal filings have put me firmly in the player's camp. US Soccer's current leadership has once again failed, and the obvious bias and sexism in their legal documents warrants radical change in how this team and our sport is managed at the National level. I was even agreeing with Megan Rapinoe yesterday, who showed more class in her post-game response than US Soccer. Watching Julie Foudy react to the disclosure and apology in real time was devastating.
At this point, silence is not acceptable, and I would call on the men's players to express their outrage at US Soccer's legal claims, and support the women's team through not just public statements, but even boycotts of playing for US Soccer under its current leadership. If you are going to be offended by people who look the other way when they know they are working for awful people/organizations, I put agreeing to be part of the USMNT without demanding a change in leadership in the same category.
Keepermom2
GOLD
U.S. Soccer stated that "it is undisputed that the job of [Men's National Team] player requires materially more strength and speed than the job of [Women's National Team] player." It also added that "the job of MNT players carries more responsibility than the job of a WNT player."
Holy cow was that dumb! That argument equates to women are the weaker sex and therefore should be paid less. I think the folks that decided that was a good argument need to join the millennium.
Holy cow was that dumb! That argument equates to women are the weaker sex and therefore should be paid less. I think the folks that decided that was a good argument need to join the millennium.
Agree 100%
outside!
DA
No it's not. It is Carlos trying to cover his ass. The real solution would be to disband US Soccer and start fresh and while they are at it move the headquarters from the soccer hellhole that is Chicago.