Tryout evaluation should include full game videos

J

Jamisfoes

SILVER ELITE
With Veo and Trace getting more popular, even AYSO extra teams are using them, are you seeing coaches asking to see a full game video before offering a spot on the team?

Teams are usually limited on practice space during tryout. Small field and tight spaces are fine but real soccer is played on a big field. Our team has signed players in the past who looked good in small field but turned out to lack the speed, grit and awareness in game play.
 
Trace wasn't worth a shit when we had it. Most of the time you couldn't even see a player's number. Has it gotten better?

In my opinion, traditional tryouts are a complete joke. To your point, excelling at 2 v 2 and 3 v 3 with complete strangers might be the dumbest way to determine who can play. Nevermind that rosters are 95% determined before you show up at Day 1.
 
Slobodan said:
Trace wasn't worth a shit when we had it. Most of the time you couldn't even see a player's number. Has it gotten better?

In my opinion, traditional tryouts are a complete joke. To your point, excelling at 2 v 2 and 3 v 3 with complete strangers might be the dumbest way to determine who can play. Nevermind that rosters are 95% determined before you show up at Day 1.
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You don’t even need to watch the whole game. Just 15 minutes on the blurry Trace footage can tell you so much about a player.
 
I’ve seen many a player make a team based on a small sided game only to have the team soon realize they are completely blind on a full size field. If I was a coach I’d definitely ask for VEO before offering a spot. Some kids don’t pass some don’t defend some are practice all stars…. Some are born losers!

Some don’t care about practice but are complete ballers in games. This is why 100% of YNT evaluations are conducted in games and scouts don’t come to practice.
 
When I was evaluating players for AYSO Extra, I felt like it was entirely possible to get a good sense of capability from some drills and small sided scrimmages, usually in about 15 minutes or less. This was for younger players, though, and I'm far from a professional coach/scout.

I honestly don't know what the "higher level" coaches are looking for; it seems to have diverged a bit from what I would look for in players. That's the more generous interpretation; the other interpretation is that tryouts are largely pointless in most cases, and the coaches already have largely determined the team based on other factors, barring some significant surprise at tryouts. The reality is probably some of both of the above.

I don't have much experience with various clubs, though, so I'm also curious if this is becoming at all more prevalent.
 
sigmabody said:
When I was evaluating players for AYSO Extra, I felt like it was entirely possible to get a good sense of capability from some drills and small sided scrimmages, usually in about 15 minutes or less. This was for younger players, though, and I'm far from a professional coach/scout.

I honestly don't know what the "higher level" coaches are looking for; it seems to have diverged a bit from what I would look for in players. That's the more generous interpretation; the other interpretation is that tryouts are largely pointless in most cases, and the coaches already have largely determined the team based on other factors, barring some significant surprise at tryouts. The reality is probably some of both of the above.

I don't have much experience with various clubs, though, so I'm also curious if this is becoming at all more prevalent.
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Here's the evaluation process...

1. Can the parents pay? (what kind of car do they drive)
2. What month was the kid born?
3. How fast are they?
4. Can they play?
5. How tall are the parents?

I didn't mention any specifics about soccer iq or skills because all coaches think they can teach this.

Cattle call tryouts are different because coaches don't have as much time to figure out what I listed above. 99% of the time parents can get kids on the topish team just by reaching out to different coaches before the cattle call tryouts and getting your kid on their radar.
 
sigmabody said:
When I was evaluating players for AYSO Extra, I felt like it was entirely possible to get a good sense of capability from some drills and small sided scrimmages, usually in about 15 minutes or less. This was for younger players, though, and I'm far from a professional coach/scout.

I honestly don't know what the "higher level" coaches are looking for; it seems to have diverged a bit from what I would look for in players. That's the more generous interpretation; the other interpretation is that tryouts are largely pointless in most cases, and the coaches already have largely determined the team based on other factors, barring some significant surprise at tryouts. The reality is probably some of both of the above.

I don't have much experience with various clubs, though, so I'm also curious if this is becoming at all more prevalent.
Click to expand...
Getting on an olders high level team is more difficult. This is because everyone knows everyone at the highest levels. Generally a new dominate player coming out of the woodwork doesn't happen. If your kid has the talent/ability reach out to the coach and ask if they can jump in on one of their practices. Primarily what a coach will be looking for is if your kid is better than one of their starters. Coaches generally arent looking to replace their bench because usually its a waste of time + creates enemies for no reason.

Outside of the above skys the limit. I've seen cash floating around, parents trying to do package deals, free golf trips, private jet trips, etc etc etc. You get the idea.
 
BBB said:
I’ve seen many a player make a team based on a small sided game only to have the team soon realize they are completely blind on a full size field. If I was a coach I’d definitely ask for VEO before offering a spot. Some kids don’t pass some don’t defend some are practice all stars…. Some are born losers!

Some don’t care about practice but are complete ballers in games. This is why 100% of YNT evaluations are conducted in games and scouts don’t come to practice.
Click to expand...
9 ot of 10 girls club soccer players do not pass; midfielders believe passing is kicking a field goal over the net is "passing", especially afterwards when her parents and side yell "great shot"... :cool: o_O💩
 
Carlsbad7 said:
I didn't mention any specifics about soccer iq or skills because all coaches think they can teach this.

Cattle call tryouts are different because coaches don't have as much time to figure out what I listed above. 99% of the time parents can get kids on the topish team just by reaching out to different coaches before the cattle call tryouts and getting your kid on their radar.
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100% on both these points, particularly soccer IQ.
 
JeterwastheBEST said:
9 ot of 10 girls club soccer players do not pass; midfielders believe passing is kicking a field goal over the net is "passing", especially afterwards when her parents and side yell "great shot"... :cool: o_O💩
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This is my same experience;). All coaches need to see practice as it shows more technical skills. Just watching a game it maybe a dog fight with just grit and effort. There are games with tactics and skill being used but that's not as common.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Getting on an olders high level team is more difficult. This is because everyone knows everyone at the highest levels. Generally a new dominate player coming out of the woodwork doesn't happen. If your kid has the talent/ability reach out to the coach and ask if they can jump in on one of their practices. Primarily what a coach will be looking for is if your kid is better than one of their starters. Coaches generally arent looking to replace their bench because usually its a waste of time + creates enemies for no reason.

Outside of the above skys the limit. I've seen cash floating around, parents trying to do package deals, free golf trips, private jet trips, etc etc etc. You get the idea.
Click to expand...
One of the challenges with this, in my opinion, is that it's hard to get really good unless you're playing against a high level of competition, and you can get sorta "tracked" in terms of soccer development. As you say (and I've seen), in order to move up, you often need to make a large enough leap to be better than a higher tier starter, and there isn't really a pathway for advancement otherwise (aside from paying considerably more to play up).

I feel like if you're not in the highest tier of a club by high school, you're never going to get there (absent perhaps changing clubs), and you should plan based on that expectation. Unless you (and your kid) are willing and able to do a considerable amount of side practice and private lessons (etc.), if you're not in the top tier by then, you won't ever be (even if you could be in concept with the right level of competition); it's just the nature of the current system.
 
Th
sigmabody said:
When I was evaluating players for AYSO Extra, I felt like it was entirely possible to get a good sense of capability from some drills and small sided scrimmages, usually in about 15 minutes or less. This was for younger players, though, and I'm far from a professional coach/scout.

I honestly don't know what the "higher level" coaches are looking for; it seems to have diverged a bit from what I would look for in players. That's the more generous interpretation; the other interpretation is that tryouts are largely pointless in most cases, and the coaches already have largely determined the team based on other factors, barring some significant surprise at tryouts. The reality is probably some of both of the above.

I don't have much experience with various clubs, though, so I'm also curious if this is becoming at all more prevalent.
Click to expand...
The only thing you were looking for at tryouts was whether the kid's parents would turn a blind eye to your scams and sleazy conduct. How did that work out for you, loser? Thank god you've been stripped of that ability and no one wants to play on your team.
 
sigmabody said:
One of the challenges with this, in my opinion, is that it's hard to get really good unless you're playing against a high level of competition, and you can get sorta "tracked" in terms of soccer development. As you say (and I've seen), in order to move up, you often need to make a large enough leap to be better than a higher tier starter, and there isn't really a pathway for advancement otherwise (aside from paying considerably more to play up).

I feel like if you're not in the highest tier of a club by high school, you're never going to get there (absent perhaps changing clubs), and you should plan based on that expectation. Unless you (and your kid) are willing and able to do a considerable amount of side practice and private lessons (etc.), if you're not in the top tier by then, you won't ever be (even if you could be in concept with the right level of competition); it's just the nature of the current system.
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You know literally nothing about "high level" soccer. Or did I miss it - where did you play? Have you even played a single game of competitive soccer? What high level team do you coach? No one is going to come play for you, so stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
 
TopesWin said:
You know literally nothing about "high level" soccer. Or did I miss it - where did you play? Have you even played a single game of competitive soccer? What high level team do you coach? No one is going to come play for you, so stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
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Once again, in case anyone else here is confused, TopesWin seems to be (repeatedly, and in spite of attempted corrections) confusing me for someone else, which is presumably the source of the non sequitur vitriol. I am not a professional coach, nor have I ever been one, nor do I have a team, etc., just to be clear.

That said, the totally non sequitur tirades are sorta amusing, all things considered, and I am sorta still curious who they are actually intended to be directed at. If TopesWin would like to post who you incorrectly think I am, that might be interesting (although I also don't get into much internal club drama, so I likely won't be familiar anyway).
 
JeterwastheBEST said:
9 ot of 10 girls club soccer players do not pass; midfielders believe passing is kicking a field goal over the net is "passing", especially afterwards when her parents and side yell "great shot"... :cool: o_O💩
Click to expand...
I've seen your team play.

It's not often we see the 'angry' emoji. Are you mad at me for your lack of sobriety?
 
Asking for video also helps to verify that the kid actually plays on the team that the parents say they did. You can see if they are a bench warmer or a starter.
 
Jamisfoes said:
With Veo and Trace getting more popular, even AYSO extra teams are using them, are you seeing coaches asking to see a full game video before offering a spot on the team?

Teams are usually limited on practice space during tryout. Small field and tight spaces are fine but real soccer is played on a big field. Our team has signed players in the past who looked good in small field but turned out to lack the speed, grit and awareness in game play.
Click to expand...
 
Jamisfoes said:
With Veo and Trace getting more popular, even AYSO extra teams are using them, are you seeing coaches asking to see a full game video before offering a spot on the team?

Teams are usually limited on practice space during tryout. Small field and tight spaces are fine but real soccer is played on a big field. Our team has signed players in the past who looked good in small field but turned out to lack the speed, grit and awareness in game play.
Click to expand...
Only a few would look at it and fewer still would even know how to evaluate film.

We had a great coach that did film review (actually the only one in 6 years of DA and MLS Next). Broke down tape for each player after each game and spent time reviewing it with the player. Had our Nomads team, believe it or not, in 3rd place at the Christmas break in 3rd place behind only LAG and LAFC. He had a falling out with the club, no surprise, and left the club. The team didn't win one game the 2nd half of the season. New coach thought he could move players around like they were pawns on a chess board. Perfect example of why soccer IQ matters.
 
Jamisfoes said:
You don’t even need to watch the whole game. Just 15 minutes on the blurry Trace footage can tell you so much about a player.
Click to expand...

I think that's a good idea.

But I doubt coaches will take the time? I guess the dedicated ones really willing to make improvements on the team will.

On the other hand, maybe tryouts should include some element of full sized scrimmages?
Put kids in whatever they think is their best position is. You can tell within 10 minutes their level vs your current defenders.
 
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