Thinking of making a move to an ECNL team for next year

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Chalklines

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What the title said.

Things have been getting stale for my daughter in terms of competition in the Coast / DPL so its time to start looking for the next challenge. What's holding me back from a move is the politics. Its been a good long run with her current team and time for a new voice.

Can anyone give me an honest figure on how much extra ill need to pay the coach on the side for my DD to see the field? She's a defender, not sure if prices change for each position? (serious question) Its this a flat rate or percentage? Do I pick up hotels and room service for the coach at tournaments? In Vegas, do I send up one escort or two? Is there a magic number that keeps my kid on the field even if they make mistakes? Seems like everywhere I'm looking the coaches get younger and younger. Youth is very easy to manipulate. I'm a aware of the red flags from the start. Coaches talking to groups of parents having a good laugh and a beer. Individual conversations before games, new BMW's on a coaches salary in the parking lot etc. Its been known in the past the two clubs I'm looking at are run by the almighty dollar and the same parents are still there so my assumption is ill need to keep up with the Jones's monthly installments for my daughter to see the field.

The helps appreciated. Please don't deny it happens. Its common knowledge in the ECNL landscape for girls more so then boys and I've talked with plenty parents who "contribute" to the coaches cause out on the greens.

Just looking for some transparent pricing information to see if I can afford the move.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
I'm not denying that it happens but I'm sure it's rare exceptions. Saying that ECNL players/families pay off coaches is an insult...the vast majority have earned spots/playing time through hard work over time.
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Its not rare or an insult. It exists at every level of club sports across the nation. When you have money to throw around it comes with bragging rights. These contributors have pride and want you to know whos really in charge after a few drinks. Nothing feels better to the aristocracy then gloating over their victories. Its nothing new. The NCAA booster process has trickled down the ranks into the youth for AAU, USSSA, AYFL and ECNL for years. Some kids earn it for sure but for those with the means it much easier to pay for it. The only way to get better is to play and that comes at a price despite skill level. Just looking for some figures. Please don't be shy. Thanks to those who have sent me DM's already.
 
Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...

Direct Pay to Play...
$50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club)
$300-$500 per month to work with whatever super elite private training group the coach recommends for individual training (this is a workaround if direct privates aren't allowed by the club)

Indirect Pay to Play...
$100-$200 for camps put on by your club with your coach or the director overseeing (can happen 2-4x a year)
$100-$200 to play unofficially in local leagues / futsal. This might be parent setup or coach sets up through a parent (can happen 1-3x a year)
$100-$500 to get involved with the club golf tournament + get your coach in a foursome + smooze them for 3-4 hours strait. (1x per year)
$500-??? Private business sponsorship via a donation for the club or a specific event (this is how you throw $$$ at the club for your kid + write it off at the same time)
$20-$50 per parent per tournament to cover "food" (cough drinks cough) + a little something on the side at away tournaments for the coach.

Free Pay to Play...
Be the team parent + get all the gossip/info before anyone else + setup all the $$$ situations for the coach/club
Volunteer to work the booth at events or setup fields at 7am

I'm sure there's lots more that I'm not listing. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Youth soccer get more expensive as you move up through the so called more "elite" league

Better coaches, fields, travel costs more so you either have to play for a club that's sponsors some of that, fund raise or have more control over or say in the team and or club finances.

Payolla yeah happens in a indirect sort of way for example manager is doing some work so sometimes they get a player fee discount, travel or make the squad when there just a bubble player.

ECNL makes sense for the higher skilled player that has a big competitive drive to play and win. For the top teams that make the post season it's a great fit for the others it's a huge commitment that some times works out or not.

Extra I dunno what is your total season spend now?
 
Soccer performance is difficult to measure, even for trained coaches. You can see how national coaches are being criticized all the time for not selecting the "best" players. I think this is what happened in most high level youth teams, parents feel that their kids are the best and should be played maximum minutes. The boys/girls getting more minutes are playing worse than their kids thus raising up conspiracy theory.
My kids only play in flight 1 and even at this low level, every time my kids play less than 75% of the game, I feel that I want to move them to a different team/coach. I wish they just join competitive swimming (one of them still do). It is so easy and relaxing that performance can be measured by time only, never felt angry feeling toward the referee, coaches, organizers, club admin, etc. With soccer, I feel frustrated 90% of the time. On the flipside, my kids smile after every practice so I don't have the heart to stop them.
 
jojon said:
Soccer performance is difficult to measure, even for trained coaches. You can see how national coaches are being criticized all the time for not selecting the "best" players. I think this is what happened in most high level youth teams, parents feel that their kids are the best and should be played maximum minutes. The boys/girls getting more minutes are playing worse than their kids thus raising up conspiracy theory.
My kids only play in flight 1 and even at this low level, every time my kids play less than 75% of the game, I feel that I want to move them to a different team/coach. I wish they just join competitive swimming (one of them still do). It is so easy and relaxing that performance can be measured by time only, never felt angry feeling toward the referee, coaches, organizers, club admin, etc. With soccer, I feel frustrated 90% of the time. On the flipside, my kids smile after every practice so I don't have the heart to stop them.
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I loved watching track in High School. Clock don't lie. My buddy dd was on a team and he was telling me how one game his dd would start and then another game the other kid would start. It went back and forth first few games and It was neck to neck and each kid brought a little something different to the game and to be honest, either one would be ok starter or be ready to come off the bench to be a spark plug. Well, my buddy told me the other dad took coach up on his privates and well, my buddy's kid came off the bench the rest of the year, including playoffs. His dd asked coach what she could do to start and the coach told her she needs to train more outside of just practice and take the game more serious. It was straight up honest. This does happen but it's hard to admit for many. No parent likes to see their kid ride the bench.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...

Direct Pay to Play...
$50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club)
$300-$500 per month to work with whatever super elite private training group the coach recommends for individual training (this is a workaround if direct privates aren't allowed by the club)

Indirect Pay to Play...
$100-$200 for camps put on by your club with your coach or the director overseeing (can happen 2-4x a year)
$100-$200 to play unofficially in local leagues / futsal. This might be parent setup or coach sets up through a parent (can happen 1-3x a year)
$100-$500 to get involved with the club golf tournament + get your coach in a foursome + smooze them for 3-4 hours strait. (1x per year)
$500-??? Private business sponsorship via a donation for the club or a specific event (this is how you throw $$$ at the club for your kid + write it off at the same time)
$20-$50 per parent per tournament to cover "food" (cough drinks cough) + a little something on the side at away tournaments for the coach.

Free Pay to Play...
Be the team parent + get all the gossip/info before anyone else + setup all the $$$ situations for the coach/club
Volunteer to work the booth at events or setup fields at 7am

I'm sure there's lots more that I'm not listing. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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Free Pay to Play? This is the dumbest stuff I have heard. Anybody is free to volunteer...why don't you volunteer so that you can get be in all the $$$ situations for the club? Oh yeah...because there really isn't any when you're a volunteer.

Extra soccer outside of the team where coach is not involved? How the heck is that pay to play if coach is not involved? I organize extra soccer/league for my kid and anybody else that wants to play and I lose money every time. Coach doesn't know about it, parents don't know about. I just have parents that don't pay the split fees per game.

The more I read this thread the more I realize that parents who complain about pay to play or preferential coach treatment are almost always parents who think their kid is better than what their coach may have thought. This happens everyday in soccer and there doesn't have to be a conspiracy behind every time it happens. If your kid gets cut focus on their development rather than complain.
 
So really here's the deal and please be honest. Remember my pockets aren't deep coming off a school teaches salary so I'm really looking for a flat number $$$$$ of what ill need to spend. My inside trader information from the golf course has already told me that in one of the Clubs ill be looking at the followings being done by an individual(s) X.

-Pay all the coaches travel expense.
-Pay Club dues for at least 2 players on the team and travel expenses when necessary.
-Credit Card for the coach. Pay for gas and food to and from the facility.
-Extravagant coaches gifts.

Now I'm not able to compete anymore with is having multiple's in a club . My sons focus now is with Football. X is a team manager who has multiple kids in this club. Should I just look somewhere else? Just don't think my DD will ever see the field and get to play her primary position since its the same as the behind the scene managers kid.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
Free Pay to Play? This is the dumbest stuff I have heard. Anybody is free to volunteer...why don't you volunteer so that you can get be in all the $$$ situations for the club? Oh yeah...because there really isn't any when you're a volunteer.
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You might not understand it but for many people time has value. "Free" has strings attached in that it takes up a lot of your time.

rainbow_unicorn said:
Extra soccer outside of the team where coach is not involved? How the heck is that pay to play if coach is not involved? I organize extra soccer/league for my kid and anybody else that wants to play and I lose money every time. Coach doesn't know about it, parents don't know about. I just have parents that don't pay the split fees per game.
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Coaches/Groups set it up so they get a "finders fee" or a percentage of the monthly for each kid they refer to the programs. I'm sorry that your groups don't make $$$ others do.

rainbow_unicorn said:
The more I read this thread the more I realize that parents who complain about pay to play or preferential coach treatment are almost always parents who think their kid is better than what their coach may have thought. This happens everyday in soccer and there doesn't have to be a conspiracy behind every time it happens. If your kid gets cut focus on their development rather than complain.
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Nope, been through it all + what I relayed is what I've seen. Pay to Play is rarely overt. It's something that builds over time.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...

Direct Pay to Play...
$50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club)
$300-$500 per month to work with whatever super elite private training group the coach recommends for individual training (this is a workaround if direct privates aren't allowed by the club)

Indirect Pay to Play...
$100-$200 for camps put on by your club with your coach or the director overseeing (can happen 2-4x a year)
$100-$200 to play unofficially in local leagues / futsal. This might be parent setup or coach sets up through a parent (can happen 1-3x a year)
$100-$500 to get involved with the club golf tournament + get your coach in a foursome + smooze them for 3-4 hours strait. (1x per year)
$500-??? Private business sponsorship via a donation for the club or a specific event (this is how you throw $$$ at the club for your kid + write it off at the same time)
$20-$50 per parent per tournament to cover "food" (cough drinks cough) + a little something on the side at away tournaments for the coach.

Free Pay to Play...
Be the team parent + get all the gossip/info before anyone else + setup all the $$$ situations for the coach/club
Volunteer to work the booth at events or setup fields at 7am

I'm sure there's lots more that I'm not listing. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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There is nothing wrong with this
 
120497235901835 said:
There is nothing wrong with this
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Maybe, maybe not. I didn't define if it was bad or good.

The thread starter wanted realistic costs of joining an ECNL team. I listed many of the Pay to Play costs we've run into over the last 8+ years.

Pay to Play = Gates that are opened by $$$ for a players development and/or playing time. (again not saying if they're good or bad)
 
I have never encountered a parent actually slipping cash to a coach or bribing them in any way. I have seen girls that had no business being on a team get selected as the parents business was a big sponsor and supported the team through use of facilities, offices, video gear, transport etc. I have also seen coaches give preference to players that pay $$$ for private lessons with the same coach. Think these are both pretty shady and don't think they happen at quality clubs. At the top level clubs won't do this as the top players don't need to compensate for anything and would resent any player that didn't earn their spot. Even the perception of this kills team chemistry and would hurt the program.
 
What is the end game? Daughters age? There are some good Discover/Premier teams that are less expensive and still have good coaches and your kid will improve. Good coach, liking soccer, and improving is the most important thing for your kid.

ECNL does have advantages, and we almost moved a couple times. You can also move for your final two seasons and play the game for a shorter period. I did notice some players playing at ECNL that didn't seem to be up to speed. By the way, one college my daughter was thinking of committing to has two freshman girls on the roster that are daughters of the head coach and assistant coach, so the cycle doesn't end.
 
Chalklines said:
So really here's the deal and please be honest. Remember my pockets aren't deep coming off a school teaches salary so I'm really looking for a flat number $$$$$ of what ill need to spend. My inside trader information from the golf course has already told me that in one of the Clubs ill be looking at the followings being done by an individual(s) X.

-Pay all the coaches travel expense.
-Pay Club dues for at least 2 players on the team and travel expenses when necessary.
-Credit Card for the coach. Pay for gas and food to and from the facility.
-Extravagant coaches gifts.

Now I'm not able to compete anymore with is having multiple's in a club . My sons focus now is with Football. X is a team manager who has multiple kids in this club. Should I just look somewhere else? Just don't think my DD will ever see the field and get to play her primary position since its the same as the behind the scene managers kid.
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Pay to play for ECNL when you total everything ranges from 6k and beyond with travel being a major expense. Let's say between the club and team fees your at 4k with another 2k+ for travel.

When our daughter played ECNL some of the east or Midwest coast showcase/playoff trips would run between 20-30k for the whole team including air, buses, hotel 6x, food, etc for the 20-22 or so players so it was expensive. Imagine some of the players paid thousands and hardly got on the field
 
It's interesting that none of the discussion on paying for extra training has mentioned the increased knowledge, skills, and abilities the players gain putting in extra work. Maybe those players whose parents are "paying to play", are actually getting more playing time because of the increase in abilities, and not because of the money exchange. I'm pretty sure the players are not at training taking naps. I have a feeling that the people who always call out pay to play, are not actually doing anything to get in extra training. Don't have the money, no problem, watch some quality you tube videos, take your ass outside and help your player train. Put in that sweat investment. As far as the OP goes, for a reasonable fee I'll give you all the Intel on how to get on an ECNL team.‍♂
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Maybe, maybe not. I didn't define if it was bad or good.

The thread starter wanted realistic costs of joining an ECNL team. I listed many of the Pay to Play costs we've run into over the last 8+ years.

Pay to Play = Gates that are opened by $$$ for a players development and/or playing time. (again not saying if they're good or bad)
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This is not a good or bad but more of a "can I compete in this pay to play" sport and find my dd minutes and play time.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.
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100%. Code thinks other wise but that's all cool. I think it looks really really bad when the players whose dad is paying for extra training is not better then the player who does track and other social activities but can still ball, but sits because of the pay to play parents and the extra hard work this player is willing to put in. Plus, this player goes to SAT training and already has a 4.5 GPA. Plus, this dad donates every year to the clubs annual fund raiser and sponsors one of the forwards club dues because their parents are dirt poor. That is how you get a position for your dd and starts for your kid. US SOCCER had parents pay bank for their travel league and all those parents were rewarded with 25% Starts for their child. That is called, "Pay so my kid can start and play" which is way better then just getting minutes, moo :) The whole thing is a big hot mess except for a small % of happy parents. OP is looking for parents to come clean. This is what he found on the golf course....lol.
 
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