Sin Bin Rule

[Grace T.]

So what do folks think about the new experimental blue cards? The reaction so far has been generally negative from coaches, players and fans. Particular problem about what to do if a goalkeeper gets sin binned. Particularly can't see this working in the youth game where there isn't a 4th official keeping track of the time (don't know how it's done in hockey but the other sports usually don't have the CR frantically trying to manage the game without pauses and they have a timekeeper).

What is a blue card in soccer? IFAB considers scrapping controversial sin-bin rule after backlash | Sporting News

IFAB, football's rulemaking body, wants to introduce a sin-bin element to the game. The blue card proposal has been met with a backlash.

www.sportingnews.com

Proposed Blue Cards Would Send Soccer Players to the “Sin Bin”

What does a blue card mean in soccer? Read about the proposed “sin-bin” trials that would change the game of association football.

www.distractify.com

Goalkeepers would not be exempt from blue cards under new sin-bin protocols

Goalkeepers can be sent to the sin bin under the new protocols, with no temporary replacements allowed

www.theguardian.com

 

[N00B]

Fouls with a time penalty have been part of Arena Soccer leagues for some time. That’s probably the first place to look for feedback on implementing a ‘blue’ card.

Rules - Major Arena Soccer League

www.maslsoccer.com

 

[Grace T.]

Fouls with a time penalty have been part of Arena Soccer leagues for some time. That’s probably the first place to look for feedback on implementing a ‘blue’ card.

Rules - Major Arena Soccer League

www.maslsoccer.com

My understanding in futsal tournaments with send off rules has been there's a time keeper to help the referee. So at least for youth football, it would seem to require the addition of a 4th official.

 

[focomoso]

So what do folks think about the new experimental blue cards?

I don't see this working because going down a man isn't enough of a disadvantage in soccer, unlike Hockey and futsal with so few players.

Hockey, btw, has someone in the box even at youth levels. They don't have to be an impartial ref as they mostly just look at the clock and open the doors at the right time.

 

[Grace T.]

I don't see this working because going down a man isn't enough of a disadvantage in soccer, unlike Hockey and futsal with so few players.

Hockey, btw, has someone in the box even at youth levels. They don't have to be an impartial ref as they mostly just look at the clock and open the doors at the right time.

Curious what keeps the hockey parents from cheating. Or are they just less crazy than soccer parents? Cause I can totally see a soccer parent shaving off a second here or there and adding a few here or there, like the GKs slow or speed things up. Given the player cannot enter without the permission of the ref, there's that, but supposedly then you would have to wait for a stop in play (or modify the rule) and for your team you'd be screaming "ref ref" while for the other team it's too bad so sad.

 

[focomoso]

Curious what keeps the hockey parents from cheating. Or are they just less crazy than soccer parents? Cause I can totally see a soccer parent shaving off a second here or there and adding a few here or there, like the GKs slow or speed things up. Given the player cannot enter without the permission of the ref, there's that, but supposedly then you would have to wait for a stop in play (or modify the rule) and for your team you'd be screaming "ref ref" while for the other team it's too bad so sad.

Hockey has a stop / start clock with a public penalty countdown that runs in sync so everyone knows exactly when it's over. The goalie usually bangs his stick on the ice for the last 5 seconds to warn his team that the skater is about to come back.

 

[watfly]

So what do folks think about the new experimental blue cards? The reaction so far has been generally negative from coaches, players and fans. Particular problem about what to do if a goalkeeper gets sin binned. Particularly can't see this working in the youth game where there isn't a 4th official keeping track of the time (don't know how it's done in hockey but the other sports usually don't have the CR frantically trying to manage the game without pauses and they have a timekeeper).

What is a blue card in soccer? IFAB considers scrapping controversial sin-bin rule after backlash | Sporting News

IFAB, football's rulemaking body, wants to introduce a sin-bin element to the game. The blue card proposal has been met with a backlash.

www.sportingnews.com

Proposed Blue Cards Would Send Soccer Players to the “Sin Bin”

What does a blue card mean in soccer? Read about the proposed “sin-bin” trials that would change the game of association football.

www.distractify.com

Goalkeepers would not be exempt from blue cards under new sin-bin protocols

Goalkeepers can be sent to the sin bin under the new protocols, with no temporary replacements allowed

www.theguardian.com

IFAB is doing it's best to ruin soccer, of course I'm bitter that defenders have to play with their hands behind their back (an unnatural position) to avoid putting their hands in an "unnatural" position. IFAB needs to put more actual players on their rules committees and fewer referees.

 

[Grace T.]

Hockey has a stop / start clock with a public penalty countdown that runs in sync so everyone knows exactly when it's over. The goalie usually bangs his stick on the ice for the last 5 seconds to warn his team that the skater is about to come back.

Letter league will either have to rent the hs/college field clock (extra cost plus you gotta pay for a guy at public hs) or force teams to buy one , like they do for cameras

 

[Orangeteam]

I recall a few coaches in Oregon or maybe Washington talking about a 2min cooling off after a yellow card offense.
This was a high school rule in the late 80s and 90s.
They didn't speak highly of it.

 

[Slobodan]

IFAB is doing it's best to ruin soccer, of course I'm bitter that defenders have to play with their hands behind their back (an unnatural position) to avoid putting their hands in an "unnatural" position. IFAB needs to put more actual players on their rules committees and fewer referees.

Yeah... that's a bullshit deal. And what a "handball" is, being so fluid that no 2 people think it's the same, is ridiculous. I'm pretty sold on VAR at the professional level but clear and obvious needs to be clear and obvious.

 

[whatithink]

I recall a few coaches in Oregon or maybe Washington talking about a 2min cooling off after a yellow card offense.
This was a high school rule in the late 80s and 90s.
They didn't speak highly of it.

In AZ HS play, a yellow is an automatic cooling off period. Some coaches just put them straight back on at the next opportunity and some don't. The kids just automatically exit when they get a yellow and a sub comes straight on. TBH, it runs very seamlessly.

The blue card looks like a solution looking for a problem. If abuse of referees is the issue or prof fouls or tactical fouls, make them a red card offense.

FWIW, I'd say a ref should issue a yellow for a prof or tactical foul. Abuse of a ref should be a red card offense.

As an aside, when I played in AZ one of the leagues had a ten minute sinbin for on field cursing or talking back to the ref. It was amazing how seldom people cursed or talked back to the ref.

 

[dad4]

I recall a few coaches in Oregon or maybe Washington talking about a 2min cooling off after a yellow card offense.
This was a high school rule in the late 80s and 90s.
They didn't speak highly of it.

It probably depends on whether the coach in question tends to pick up a ton of yellows.

If you teach your team to play rugby to control the middle, then I’m sure you’d hate the cooling off period.

I’m not sympathetic. I see far too many coaches rely on low skill brutes, and then complain when their thug collects six foul calls per game.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

In AZ HS play, a yellow is an automatic cooling off period. Some coaches just put them straight back on at the next opportunity and some don't. The kids just automatically exit when they get a yellow and a sub comes straight on. TBH, it runs very seamlessly.

The blue card looks like a solution looking for a problem. If abuse of referees is the issue or prof fouls or tactical fouls, make them a red card offense.

FWIW, I'd say a ref should issue a yellow for a prof or tactical foul. Abuse of a ref should be a red card offense.

As an aside, when I played in AZ one of the leagues had a ten minute sinbin for on field cursing or talking back to the ref. It was amazing how seldom people cursed or talked back to the ref.

Same with CA HS (or at least our conference/division)...yellow card is automatic subbed off to cool down

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

I think blue card is actually a pretty good idea. Would love to see "tactical" fouls removed as that would allow for more attacking plays to develop. Same with time wasting shenanigans.

 

[whatithink]

I think blue card is actually a pretty good idea. Would love to see "tactical" fouls removed as that would allow for more attacking plays to develop. Same with time wasting shenanigans.

The problem with the tactical fouls is that they can be subjective. Its funny how they are a deliberate ploys of some of the top teams, e.g. Man City do it all the time (as did Barca under Pep).

The new MLS time wasting rules will be interesting to see in operation

[Substitutes] If the player does not leave the field from any point within 10 seconds, the incoming player must undergo a 60-second waiting period before entering the game at the next stoppage. During the waiting period and prior to the entry of the substitute, the team shall play a man down. Exceptions to the rule include injuries and goalkeeper substitutions.
The rule was successfully tested in the last MLS NEXT Pro season. As much as 99.7 percent of the more than 3,200 substitutions were completed in 10 seconds or less.

[Injury] If a player with a suspected injury remains on the ground for more than 15 seconds, the referee shall stop play and send the medical team onto the field to evaluate the player. When it is safe, the player will be removed and remain off the field for a minimum of two minutes for further evaluation and treatment.

 

[Grace T.]

The problem with the tactical fouls is that they can be subjective. Its funny how they are a deliberate ploys of some of the top teams, e.g. Man City do it all the time (as did Barca under Pep).

The new MLS time wasting rules will be interesting to see in operation

[Substitutes] If the player does not leave the field from any point within 10 seconds, the incoming player must undergo a 60-second waiting period before entering the game at the next stoppage. During the waiting period and prior to the entry of the substitute, the team shall play a man down. Exceptions to the rule include injuries and goalkeeper substitutions.
The rule was successfully tested in the last MLS NEXT Pro season. As much as 99.7 percent of the more than 3,200 substitutions were completed in 10 seconds or less.

[Injury] If a player with a suspected injury remains on the ground for more than 15 seconds, the referee shall stop play and send the medical team onto the field to evaluate the player. When it is safe, the player will be removed and remain off the field for a minimum of two minutes for further evaluation and treatment.

I get why the pros want to do it, but would never work in the youth game. On the substitutes, I can imagine the outraged on the sidelines from the daddy ballers when they have to wait because the player went what some time keeper deemed as 1 second over. On the injury, there are just some injuries that take time to shake off. At a game this last weekend, my kid went into a starfish and blocked a 1 v 1. The attacker, after the ball was released, slid into him studs first right smack in the nuts. No card, no foul was given (as usual). Kid was down a good minute but eventually shook it off. Very painful foul but no serious injury. Coach had to go over to evaluate. Eventually he got up and played...took a good 5 minutes to completely shake it off. The rule would have the team play with an empty goal, just encouraging a hack a shack field day on the GKs (particularly since those fouls against for/against them are rarely called in the youth game).

 

[watfly]

Yeah... that's a bullshit deal. And what a "handball" is, being so fluid that no 2 people think it's the same, is ridiculous. I'm pretty sold on VAR at the professional level but clear and obvious needs to be clear and obvious.

"Hand to ball, ball to hand" seemed as clear as day to me. Somehow there evolved this notion that a player shouldn't benefit from a ball hitting their hand. Why should the hand be any different than the rest of the body? As long as its not directed by the hand or intentionally blocked by the hand, what's the issue?

I remember one-time when a kid was running with his back to the ball on a freekick and the ball hit is hand, and the ref called a handling foul.

I think blue card is actually a pretty good idea. Would love to see "tactical" fouls removed as that would allow for more attacking plays to develop. Same with time wasting shenanigans.

What's wrong with tactical fouls? It's been part of the game since its inception.

 

[watfly]

It's ironic that while IFAB is trying to curb time wasting, they want to implement a "sin bin" that will only encourage time wasting by the short-handed team. It's also going to promote parking the bus by the short-handed team. Who wants to watch that? IFAB really struggles with cause and effect (and I'm being polite).

 

[Surfref]

I work a couple adult leagues that have a “soft yellow” which is basically what the blue card would be. A soft yellow means a player has to sit out five minutes without a replacement and can return to play at the first stoppage after the five minute mark. The five minutes start when the referee blows the whistle to restart play. We have never had a problem tracking the five minute. It is just simple math and the CR and ARs all track. I have had three players out at the same time with different re-enter times and we did not have a problem. Coaches also tend to keep track of time.
We all know the crazy youth soccer parents would track the time. I think it would be a good idea. I see that it helps to calm down a mouthy, unruly or dirty player. Just gives referees another tool to manage the game.

 

[watfly]

I work a couple adult leagues that have a “soft yellow” which is basically what the blue card would be. A soft yellow means a player has to sit out five minutes without a replacement and can return to play at the first stoppage after the five minute mark. The five minutes start when the referee blows the whistle to restart play. We have never had a problem tracking the five minute. It is just simple math and the CR and ARs all track. I have had three players out at the same time with different re-enter times and we did not have a problem. Coaches also tend to keep track of time.
We all know the crazy youth soccer parents would track the time. I think it would be a good idea. I see that it helps to calm down a mouthy, unruly or dirty player. Just gives referees another tool to manage the game.

Based upon your description, it sounds like the soft yellow/blue card isn't working as an effective deterrent. To me it sounds like its just punishment, that does nothing to improve the game. In fact, it sounds like the opposite with short-handed teams having to pack-it in for periods at a time, which certainly takes away from the "beauty" of the game.

I understand people's concern for "cynical" fouls, less understanding for "tactical" fouls (neither of which I believe are defined in the LOTG), but it seems that under the current laws these types of "intentional" fouls are already covered, particularly for DOGSO. What tools do referees not already have, including direct communication (for example, verbal reprimand or warning), to combat these fouls?

IMHO opinion, the solution to dissent is easy. Only the Captain is allowed to speak directly with the ref when discussing a call, all other players need to maintain a certain distance if a call is in question (not a distance that needs to be strictly enforced, but its obvious when a player has encroached on a ref's personal space).

Having said all of this, I do like the HS rule for coming off the field on a yellow, but teenage boys are a whole other beast (although some beer league adults, sometime aren't any better as they attempt to relive prior "glory').