Participation Trophies??? SCDSL

Once again, SCDSL is "leading the way" by not posting scores for any 2008 teams and younger. Is this the new thing to do? If scores are posted then no team actually lost and everyone wins? How low have we sunk as a society that posting scores will make teams/parents/players or coaches(doubt it) feel bad about losing or maybe even winning. Well at least CSL is still posting scores. I wonder if the same thing will happen at State Cup level and everyone is declared a State Cup Champions. It started last year with not having "standings" for certain ages, but this is getting ridiculous. Get you head out your you know what SCDSL!! I would say the other word, but don't want to hurt anyone's feelings at SCDSL :p or maybe it's just a glitch. Guess we'll never know.
 
DSL has always been like that for the youngest ages,. Up until u11 at one time but I think the actually caved in and started at u10 or something like that one year.

DA has no scores for U12, no standings for U13, 14 and no playoffs until U16/17 so not just DSL.

Kids remember the scores no matter what, parents still come up with standings, top 10, etc so all in "fun" info is out there if you real crave it?
 
@Livinglavidafutbol,

SCDSL is adopting the US Soccer recommendations (and the model adopted by our European counterparts that tend to kick our ass in International competitions).

If you want to take a step back and try to understand, please read this (like every page, consider the points and agree or disagree ... but this is the direction):
https://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/files/coaches/2017/20170906-eng-september-2017-pdi.pdf

You can rail against the fact that we are not keeping standings and scores for a bunch of uLittles that are more interested in what the post game snack is than what the f'ing score was or defend a position that has been rejected by US Soccer.

Good luck.
 
@Livinglavidafutbol,

SCDSL is adopting the US Soccer recommendations (and the model adopted by our European counterparts that tend to kick our ass in International competitions).

If you want to take a step back and try to understand, please read this (like every page, consider the points and agree or disagree ... but this is the direction):
https://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/files/coaches/2017/20170906-eng-september-2017-pdi.pdf

You can rail against the fact that we are not keeping standings and scores for a bunch of uLittles that are more interested in what the post game snack is than what the f'ing score was or defend a position that has been rejected by US Soccer.

Good luck.

Hello. Can you kindly point out where in that link anything is said about not posting scores? I understand the direction US soccer is trying to go, but nowhere in there was anything ever mentioned "No posting of scores". Every team loses and wins games. That is a fact of soccer life. But to pretend game scores don't exist is just plain silly, don't you agree on that? Kids must learn to win and lose, as that is a part of life. Part of soccer development is having a system while also game planning for teams. Not having scores available for coaches is borderline incompetence on the league's part if you want to develop top line coaches as well. But to each their own. Now how will the showcase games be determined I wonder? Guess there's no need to report scores anymore for 2008 and below, but then that should only be a requirement for 2007 and older, right?
 
Hello. Can you kindly point out where in that link anything is said about not posting scores? I understand the direction US soccer is trying to go, but nowhere in there was anything ever mentioned "No posting of scores". Every team loses and wins games. That is a fact of soccer life. But to pretend game scores don't exist is just plain silly, don't you agree on that? Kids must learn to win and lose, as that is a part of life. Part of soccer development is having a system while also game planning for teams. Not having scores available for coaches is borderline incompetence on the league's part if you want to develop top line coaches as well. But to each their own. Now how will the showcase games be determined I wonder? Guess there's no need to report scores anymore for 2008 and below, but then that should only be a requirement for 2007 and older, right?

Short Answer: Page 26 and 42 "Results should not be recorded."

Long Answer:
Posting of scores is synonymous with "results" and/or "wins and losses." US Soccer has told its affiliates and members (US Soccer --> US Youth Soccer --> Cal South --> SCDSL) that for 6-12 year olds we are not to focus on "results of the game" rather all focus is on development. US Soccer wants to see strategies and tactics implemented that increase soccer skills and technique for the entire team (the build out line and playing out of the back is a prime example) and not just a play it over the top to the fasted kid, which is an effective winning strategy at this age.

So here you go:
~Page 2
The coaching and playing environment needs to be improved for 6-12 year olds
  • Too much emphasis placed on the result of the game.
Takeaway - scores, results don't matter for the 6-12 year old group.

~ Page 3
We can’t keep doing the same thing and expect to get different results.
  • Long-term development of players is the top priority -Kids under the age of 12 don’t win World Cups so we should not treat them like adults or professional players
  • Individual development and fun soccer experience is a priority
Takeaway - putting the kids in a fun environment where "ALL" players get an equal change to develop their skills is the direction. Those coaches that employ the "star" strategy are dumb-dumbs, so gone is the strategy of "ok, team, everybody just kick it to Johnny and he'll take it from there because dammit kids, we have to win this game."

~ Page 5
Objectives
  • The focus moves away from the team and onto the individual player
    - Development and winning do not have to happen independently from one another
    - Our misguided desire to win at all costs at the youth levels often comes at the expense of individual player development
    - This change will cause many parents and coaches to rethink how teams will be formed moving forward and this should take place with each individual player in mind based on his or her developmental needs
Takeaway - stop putting the focus on winning and put the focus on development of the each kid.

~ Page 26 [... here it comes]
7v7 Player Development Philosophy
Player Development Philosophy




    • Results and standings should not be recorded
    • Players should have a minimum of 2 rest days per week during the season along with planned breaks from organized soccer during the calendar year
    • Any travel should be limited to day trips with limited allowances for overnight stays
    • Events (ex: tournaments, showcases, festivals, etc.) should provide a predetermined number of games with no advancement, placement games or champions
Takeaway - scores (results) and standings are irrelevant. Give the kids a predetermined number of games, play all the kids at least 50% (previous slide). But, it doesn't stop there ... same applies to the 9v9's, see below:

~ Page 42
9v9 Player Development Philosophy
Player Development Philosophy

  • Results and standings should not be recorded
  • Players should have a minimum of 2 rest days per week during the season along with planned breaks from organized soccer during the calendar year
  • Any travel should be limited to day trips with limited allowances for overnight stays
  • Events (ex: tournaments, showcases, festivals, etc.) should provide a predetermined number of games with no advancement, placement games or champions

Ultimately, your point is that winning and losing is a quality that we American's value as part of our very fiber and that (1) 8-12 year old players are primarily motivated by winning; and (2) the measure of a good coach is victories v. loses. US Soccer has expressly rejected this point. My opinion is as follows:

You have a good point, I remember as a 10 year old feeling great when we won and the play off chase in little league. I also remember thinking that this wasn't really fair because the Angels had Bobby and Billy, two twins that were really good and a bunch of other decent players whose parents asked to be assigned to that team, and my team, the Braves had me (league all-star catcher) and Ryan (good hitter), but we also had Tommy and Kenny who couldn't catch, hit or throw. We never won the league championship, the Angels always did. The measure of success came at the end of every season when I was chosen to represent 1 of the All-Star teams as catcher.

US Soccer understands that American Culture doesn't/hasn't embraced soccer like our International counterparts. There are very little pick-up games occurring in the street after school. Our young people just don't have that many touches at age 6-10 that many international kids have. We have to make the game fun for "all" of these kids and discourage strategies that focus on just a few kids, which includes game-day strategies.

I myself am one of those coaches that put winning above development. When I coached (E-License, don't coach anymore) my strategy was also put the slow kids up top, my athletes in the mid and middle positions and everybody else to the outside. The "athletes" knew and/or were told to not pass to certain kids. My mantra was you aren't going to help us, but you aren't going to hurt us. We won games. Lost a few. My practices were focused on winning the next game, neutralizing their star/strength, and getting the ball to our athletes. My son wanted to play GK ... nope, you are my best player, you are playing attacking mid. All kids did the drills and little fun games, but come game time my strategy was to win at the cost of developing the weaker players. I'm not proud of this, but its a reality for every single coach that is chasing wins. US Soccer understands this.

Winning and development can go hand in hand, but the focus at the uLittles should be development and fun. We want these kids to come back to soccer and play for the fun of the game ... not the trophy. When they get older 13+, winning is a much important motivating factor, so let's introduce it and now make it a part of the game knowing that a certain amount of development will suffer.
 
In theory, mandating no scores and focus on development sounds great. But in reality, you cannot decouple player development and team results in a competitive team sport like soccer...especially since the ability to play in a team environment is crucial for soccer. I've seen negative results from the other extreme where some top flight boys only care about their own development (i.e. hogging the ball)...that attitude will hurt them (and the US soccer system) in the long-term. The right balance needs to be struck between player and team development. Team competition is at the foundation of developing a team...it promotes camaraderie/chemistry within the team while also serving as a strong motivator. Can you imagine no playoffs/champion for State Cup or Surf Cup for U12 (2006's) and younger?
 
In theory, mandating no scores and focus on development sounds great. But in reality, you cannot decouple player development and team results in a competitive team sport like soccer...especially since the ability to play in a team environment is crucial for soccer. I've seen negative results from the other extreme where some top flight boys only care about their own development (i.e. hogging the ball)...that attitude will hurt them (and the US soccer system) in the long-term. The right balance needs to be struck between player and team development. Team competition is at the foundation of developing a team...it promotes camaraderie/chemistry within the team while also serving as a strong motivator. Can you imagine no playoffs/champion for State Cup or Surf Cup for U12 (2006's) and younger?

Yes and Surf cup started at U11 when my kids where younger so double yes.

My 6yr old played in his first U9 tournament he loved it and was hooked but when he played coast silver at U9 winning was the most important thing. Playing time, development, etc suffered some kids can take the pressure of wining at those early ages but it bothered others and it can take the fun out of the game which it did for some of the players. In contrast his early futsal teams with his mates the scores where high, everybody was having fun, nobody complained about having to win to make the playoffs, to stay up or anything like that, the drop out rate was basically zero.

The young kids know the scores and how well they are doing or not, they don't need parents, standings, coaches, or others putting extra pressure to perform at certain ages.

The #1 reason kids quit is because sports is no longer fun
http://changingthegameproject.com/why-kids-quit-sports/

In a 2014 study for George Washington University, researcher Amanda Visik interviewed numerous youth athletes and asked them why they played sports, and 9 out of 10 said the #1 reason they played was it was fun!

"They listed eighty-one characteristics of fun, and winning (#48), playing tournaments (#63) and practicing with private trainers (#66) did not finish high on the list"

"“Why does the average teenage boy play 17 hours of video games a week?” A big part of that why is there is no one standing over his shoulder critiquing every move, and demanding that he entertain them.
 
Yes and Surf cup started at U11 when my kids where younger so double yes.
Per US Soccer mandate, Surf Cup playoffs/champions would not start until U13.

My 6yr old played in his first U9 tournament he loved it and was hooked but when he played coast silver at U9 winning was the most important thing. Playing time, development, etc suffered some kids can take the pressure of wining at those early ages but it bothered others and it can take the fun out of the game which it did for some of the players.
Agreed that this type of situation is toxic and needs to be fixed. But most of this responsibility falls onto the coach and parents (yes, we place a lot of pressure on the coach to win) and a US Soccer mandate will not change this situation.
 
I can't find it, but doesn't US Soccer or US Youth Soccer or US Club Soccer (or some other entity) NOT recommend tournaments for below a certain age (I think it was 11 or 12 years old).
The reason for this was that multiple games in a day is not good for kids. (Development and physically). And that the cost to play in tournaments is not necessary at these younger ages.
 
I can't find it, but doesn't US Soccer or US Youth Soccer or US Club Soccer (or some other entity) NOT recommend tournaments for below a certain age (I think it was 11 or 12 years old).
The reason for this was that multiple games in a day is not good for kids. (Development and physically). And that the cost to play in tournaments is not necessary at these younger ages.

Just look at my email above, the US Soccer document I linked too. Its all in there.
 
This really can't be a serious thread. People are worried about soccer scores in a game between 9 year olds that barely know how to play and aren't playing on a regulation pitch with regulation goals or a full squad. What exactly are you trying to measure with a "score" in what amounts to a training session? You guys that are really peeved about this need to chill out and focus on your player learning the game and learning to love the game otherwise their career will end at u14. Mark my word.

My player doesn't remember one game from U9 and is only still friends with one of her teammates from back then. Focus on your player. The landscape changes every 5 years so what you see now won't be the same soon enough. Don't waste time worrying about posted scores. I am sure that you know what the score was anyway. Focus on the big D, DEVELOPMENT....
 
Once again, SCDSL is "leading the way" by not posting scores for any 2008 teams and younger. Is this the new thing to do? If scores are posted then no team actually lost and everyone wins? How low have we sunk as a society that posting scores will make teams/parents/players or coaches(doubt it) feel bad about losing or maybe even winning. Well at least CSL is still posting scores. I wonder if the same thing will happen at State Cup level and everyone is declared a State Cup Champions. It started last year with not having "standings" for certain ages, but this is getting ridiculous. Get you head out your you know what SCDSL!! I would say the other word, but don't want to hurt anyone's feelings at SCDSL :p or maybe it's just a glitch. Guess we'll never know.
If you really must know, they do post scores, you just have to know where to look (hint: find your dd's team page (or the team you're interested in knowing the score of) and look around, your one click away from finding the score!
 
If you really must know, they do post scores, you just have to know where to look (hint: find your dd's team page (or the team you're interested in knowing the score of) and look around, your one click away from finding the score!
Unfortunately not every coach or manger post the results, so not all results are going to be seen.
 
BTW so seeing that the scores are not posted would the DOC take the word of the coach that their team is ready to move from flight 3 to 2 or Flight 2 to 1? Yet what about those teams that did not do well? Should they just stay where the are? Better yet promote everyone to Flight 1 seeing that score don't mean a thing LOL.
 
not sure if anyone else remembers, but last year SCDSL didn't start posting scores until near mid season. I don't know why, it was extremely annoying. Hopefully they'll get posted soon.
 
This really can't be a serious thread. People are worried about soccer scores in a game between 9 year olds that barely know how to play and aren't playing on a regulation pitch with regulation goals or a full squad. What exactly are you trying to measure with a "score" in what amounts to a training session? You guys that are really peeved about this need to chill out and focus on your player learning the game and learning to love the game otherwise their career will end at u14. Mark my word.

My player doesn't remember one game from U9 and is only still friends with one of her teammates from back then. Focus on your player. The landscape changes every 5 years so what you see now won't be the same soon enough. Don't waste time worrying about posted scores. I am sure that you know what the score was anyway. Focus on the big D, DEVELOPMENT....
Well said MakeAPlay. People are crazy. The scores don't matter.
 
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