Goalkeeper and coach
- Thread starter Texas1973
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In my opinion it is BS for coaches to do this. But I am sure this happens more than you realize, unfortunately. There is a lot of bad when you get to top teams, especially being a GK. Not sure if the good out ways the bad. Just part of the journey of club soccer I guess. You better have some damn thick skin to get all the way through to 18. Doesn’t make it right but is reality unfortunately. If the coach is an ass, you need to way your options. Either try and talk with him but have another options first. Just my opinion, take it for what it is. But the grass isn’t always green on the other side. My boy is a keeper and we see signs of that. But he is younger, I’m sure it only gets worse as he ages up. Remember keepers don’t win games, they save them. Good luck.
It's tough because confidence is everything with keepers but they also need to learn resilience to different styles of coaching as they get older because they will have to face this once they move to college or pro. At a younger age my only regret was not pulling my keeper sooner from a top team with negative coaching but at 16 you will have to judge the pros and cons.
Thank you for the comment. I am not an aggressive soccer parent. I have politely confronted the coach twice in the 3 years on this team. A couple of months ago, they lost 3-0 to the top team. All goals were good goals. We had maybe 3 shots on target, nothing great. He told her post game that it was her fault they lost, and benched her next game. I called him and said that was out of line to blame her and bench her. He waffled and claimed he didn’t exactly use those words.
Yesterday, the assistant coach (who is worse), said during a drill to the head coach for all team to hear “if we had x (name of all star goalie fr opposing team) everyone on team knows) we would win more games”.
Insane to me. Keeper is all about confidence and this is not how you do it. After this yesterday, I am pretty much done with these clowns. Or maybe we find her another sport, she’s extremely athletic and driven.
This is a very very typical problem. One of the issues is the coaches unless they were GK themselves don't have a lot of knowledge and can't tell what (if anything) has gone wrong and how to fix it. Seriously had one coach tell my kid (when asked why am I struggling with this type of shot) "do better". Second issue is the GK is the easiest scapegoat for losing and the first to be blamed even on the pro level (after all, it certainly can't be the coach's fault).
The behavior, however, is unacceptable and especially for the assistant coach....it's one thing to use harsh motivation on a keeper to push them, and it's quite another to actively undermine them. The problem you'll have is that the behavior is quite common, especially among teams in championship contention that want to win.
If she is playing at that level, and given her age, by this point she should have a keeper coach beyond just the usual club group training (it could be the same person as the group training) that she relies upon for active mentorship and individual skills training. That keeper coach should be in her corner and be able to actively tell her what she is doing wrong (if anything). That keeper coach should have come to a couple games or reviewed footage with her. If you don't have someone like that, and she's going to continue, you need to find someone. That person then needs to give you an honest assessment as to what those goals are: some of them might be errors that need to be fixed and she needs to take responsibility for fixing them, some of them might be physical limitations that require long term work, and some of them are just good shots that even a pro would have difficulty with. For example, the thing that gets younger boys and girls are lot are the shots hit over their heads...until about u14 with the boys and u16 with the girls (maybe never if the girls is particularly short), there's not a whole lot you can do with some of those shots.
Thank you for your thoughts.
You are exactly right. The coach has no idea how to coach keepers and I believe that is the main issue. We do have a dedicated keeper coach she trains with weekly in small groups, and he has attended some games and is awesome. He has made negative comments about the coach. I think I need to chat with him more directly.
The thing is it’s not that she is playing very poorly. She had maybe 2 sub par games in 3 months. I get it is easy to blame the goalie and it’s the nature of the game. I just think you can’t crush a kid’s confidence with zero positivity and then ask why they seem to lack confidence. This is supposed to be fun and I can see the fun being sucked out of her.
Thank you for the comment. Exactly- I believe the coach has no idea how to coach keepers and that is the main issue.
We do have a dedicated goalie coach outside the team who she trains with in groups weekly. He is awesome and has made negative comments about the coach. Has been to a couple of games. I think I need to engage more with him.
I get that it is part of the game to blame the goalie and that is easy. My daughter understands that also. But I think the coach and by association the team needs to have the goalie’s back. You can’t crush someone’s confidence with only negative comments and then ask why they seem to lack confidence. Also, she had like 2 subpar games in 3 months. Big picture is what I am saying. Even when she plays awesome, they say nothing positive. I am seeing the fun get sucked out of her and this is tough for someone who could certainly play college soccer and enjoy that.
Again, thanks for your comments.
Sounds toxic. Problem is lots of places, especially those chasing championships but not strong enough to run over all the other teams, are like that.
Here's the thing that has my antennae up: "subpar games". Unless she's going in sleepy, or not motivated, or lazy, or fearful (in which case perhaps the coach has a point since subpar means you can perform better but you just aren't responsible enough to actually do it), there's no such a thing as a subpar game. There's only scenarios.
For example, by u17, against a male keeper it should be really really difficult to score on them at the higher levels. While everyone makes a mistake now and then, they aren't giving up field shots except those shot to the corners/posts including those that bounce against and go in. Cutbacks to the far post have a very low save percentage, especially among the girls. If she gives up 3 goals because there are 3 cutbacks then that's something which is clearly "not her fault"...she might need to shave 1 off, but the expectation at that age and gender isn't that she is keeping a clean sheet by saving 3 cutbacks. That's on the defenders and she's doing what she has to. Same thing if she's giving up 3 penalties. If she's giving up 3 DFK's though, then that's a red flag. 1v1s should be at about 50%...she's not going to stop all of them....6 1v1s per games she's going to give up 3 since the striker has an advantage with the ball at their feet....6 1v1s at thats on the team. The question you guys have to ask yourself (and the GK coach should know by now) is why is she giving up those 3 goals...is it a mistake, a limitation or just a low percentage save....what's the scenario.
The other big thing that gets keepers in trouble is when their play style doesn't mesh with the team. For example, I've seen a ton of save-oriented keepers get taken down when the team plays a heavy possession game because their feet just aren't to snuff. It's the same in reverse for sweeper keepers when they are playing for a boot ball team.
Mystery Train
GOLD
100% you are right.
Get away from those coaches as fast as you can. Like, today. Don't wait. You will not regret it. Speaking from hard-won experience here.
I'd be gone. "go get x for this team... see if she puts up with your little dick energy."
No excuse or reason to treat a goalkeeper that way... especially a female one. Keepers get noticed more for their highlight videos than anyone. Maybe it's because I played the position, but you know withing 10-15 seconds if you're looking at a college level keeper or not. Can they handle crosses? Can they distribute? Do they make sound decisions, etc. Girls don't respond to hate speech the way the boys do and I've seen many GK coaches get canned because they're too stupid to know the difference. You don't need to be on a top team for that.
What is the SOG % for the strikers on your team vs actual goals made? Ask the coach about that. Your GK is there to make saves. Not score goals. You can't win a game if you can't score. When my DD played club in HS, one of the club teams she played on didn't produce very often. At least the parents of the strikers were aware enough of the fact that 1) the ball passed 10 other players before they scored and 2) if their kids can't score and we lose 0-1 after my daughter made 6-10 great saves but one got thru who's really to blame here?
She guest-played for a San Diego team one year at West Coast. We faced a handful of her former teammates from the above team and we beat them 2-0. She made some great saves, but nothing we wouldn't expect either way. After the game a few parents from the old team came up to us and said what a great game she had. We said "not really", she just did her thing like always, except this team could score. There were a few dropped jaws.
It's much worse when a coach has no experience as a GK and still doesn't understand how to use the GK properly, much less provide any sound advice on things to work on, nor how to work on them.
You could maybe have the GK coach at a game and after the game your player, the coach, and the GK coach have a little meeting to assess the game. I'm sure you'll find the coach's perspective and the GK coach's perspective will be quite different. Especially if you lose and don't score.
It's always easy to blame the GK when you lose. We've had plenty of 0-1 games where the walk back to the car is a silent one. And then there's the games we win and she still did her usual good job and it's all high-fives and praise for what a good job she did.
If they don't appreciate your GK, find a team that does. Being a top-level GK is not easy. It takes a bit of cray-cray. You may have to split time.
But I'm sure there's a team and a coach out there that will appreciate a good GK with a good work ethic.
Does she plan on playing in college or maybe even beyond? Because if she doesn't then I'd really be looking to leave the team. Good luck!!
She guest-played for a San Diego team one year at West Coast. We faced a handful of her former teammates from the above team and we beat them 2-0. She made some great saves, but nothing we wouldn't expect either way. After the game a few parents from the old team came up to us and said what a great game she had. We said "not really", she just did her thing like always, except this team could score. There were a few dropped jaws.
It's much worse when a coach has no experience as a GK and still doesn't understand how to use the GK properly, much less provide any sound advice on things to work on, nor how to work on them.
You could maybe have the GK coach at a game and after the game your player, the coach, and the GK coach have a little meeting to assess the game. I'm sure you'll find the coach's perspective and the GK coach's perspective will be quite different. Especially if you lose and don't score.
It's always easy to blame the GK when you lose. We've had plenty of 0-1 games where the walk back to the car is a silent one. And then there's the games we win and she still did her usual good job and it's all high-fives and praise for what a good job she did.
If they don't appreciate your GK, find a team that does. Being a top-level GK is not easy. It takes a bit of cray-cray. You may have to split time.
But I'm sure there's a team and a coach out there that will appreciate a good GK with a good work ethic.
Does she plan on playing in college or maybe even beyond? Because if she doesn't then I'd really be looking to leave the team. Good luck!!
I point out, however, that the corollary to this is that every keeper has a blind spot...something they should be good at but are particularly weak. For example, when mine was 12 there were keepers that could tip over bar-- some because they were early bloomers and it was easier for them and some because maybe they did a cross sport like baseball or volleyball with a lot of dipping balls. It's hard to uncover those weaknesses, even if you have a GK coach that goes to some games, because those weaknesses will only be uncovered in game scenarios that might come along rarely. Those weaknesses won't be uncovered in practice because, if like in the example you point out with the team that struggles to shoot, the team may not be capable of producing those shots, or if they are, the keeper will have learned to adjust to those (but not the ones he or she hasn't yet seen).What is the SOG % for the strikers on your team vs actual goals made? Ask the coach about that. Your GK is there to make saves. Not score goals. You can't win a game if you can't score. When my DD played club in HS, one of the club teams she played on didn't produce very often. At least the parents of the strikers were aware enough of the fact that 1) the ball passed 10 other players before they scored and 2) if their kids can't score and we lose 0-1 after my daughter made 6-10 great saves but one got thru who's really to blame here?
She guest-played for a San Diego team one year at West Coast. We faced a handful of her former teammates from the above team and we beat them 2-0. She made some great saves, but nothing we wouldn't expect either way. After the game a few parents from the old team came up to us and said what a great game she had. We said "not really", she just did her thing like always, except this team could score. There were a few dropped jaws.
It's much worse when a coach has no experience as a GK and still doesn't understand how to use the GK properly, much less provide any sound advice on things to work on, nor how to work on them.
You could maybe have the GK coach at a game and after the game your player, the coach, and the GK coach have a little meeting to assess the game. I'm sure you'll find the coach's perspective and the GK coach's perspective will be quite different. Especially if you lose and don't score.
It's always easy to blame the GK when you lose. We've had plenty of 0-1 games where the walk back to the car is a silent one. And then there's the games we win and she still did her usual good job and it's all high-fives and praise for what a good job she did.
If they don't appreciate your GK, find a team that does. Being a top-level GK is not easy. It takes a bit of cray-cray. You may have to split time.
But I'm sure there's a team and a coach out there that will appreciate a good GK with a good work ethic.
Does she plan on playing in college or maybe even beyond? Because if she doesn't then I'd really be looking to leave the team. Good luck!!
It's why it's a bad idea for keepers to plant themselves on a winning team for the entirety of their career. I think Neil Thompson's words were "the keeper should struggle every once in a while" because it's only through that struggle that they grow. I've seen GK on winning teams give up ridiculous goals that a keeper on a far weaker team would save (it's just a numbers game...the keeper on the weaker team is getting more shots). Watched a strikers v. galaxy youth game on youtube recently where this was readily apparent...the galaxy GK has played with other teams on par with his academy team, while the strikers GK had far less of those experiences and far fewer shots throughout the season. In that game, the GKs actually made the difference as the offense was well balanced out. The Galaxy goalkeeper saved a well struck pen; the strikers goalkeeper missed the pen and dove into 2 1v1s that were difficult but saveable-- esp. for a GK at the highest level on the highest of teams.