Does pay-to-play system run deeper in NorCal than anywhere else due to Silicon Valley$?

S

shirivelli

BRONZE
Even the top teams in NorCal, such as MVLA, Mustang SC, and Bay Area Surf, still struggle to compete at the national level due to the legacy of pay-to-play dynamic. There are numerous talented players in NorCal, especially in the Bay Area, but they appear to be more dispersed out in multiple clubs, impacting the region's competitiveness in high-stake competitions.

And if we were to select the best 11 roster (e.g. ECNL, GA, NPL) from each major state/area - Texas, Florida, New York Tri-State (NY/NJ), Georgia, NorCal, SoCal, and so on - I believe NorCal could be one of the top teams out there. Perhaps only SoCal or Texas could give them a run for their money. Soccer is truly a team sport that having a weaker link with two or more players makes a noticeable difference at such a high level of competition.

Unfortunately, the prevalence of pay-to-play and the reluctance to demote legacy (royal) players with subpar skills seems more pronounced in NorCal than anywhere else. And it may stem from Silicon Valley's affluent parents and their influence, which may run much deeper in NorCal and its clubs than any other places. Results definitely highlight NorCal teams' lack of competitiveness in ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL, and all national club competitions.
 
shirivelli said:
Even the top teams in NorCal, such as MVLA, Mustang SC, and Bay Area Surf, still struggle to compete at the national level due to the legacy of pay-to-play dynamic. There are numerous talented players in NorCal, especially in the Bay Area, but they appear to be more dispersed out in multiple clubs, impacting the region's competitiveness in high-stake competitions.

And if we were to select the best 11 roster (e.g. ECNL, GA, NPL) from each major state/area - Texas, Florida, New York Tri-State (NY/NJ), Georgia, NorCal, SoCal, and so on - I believe NorCal could be one of the top teams out there. Perhaps only SoCal or Texas could give them a run for their money. Soccer is truly a team sport that having a weaker link with two or more players makes a noticeable difference at such a high level of competition.

Unfortunately, the prevalence of pay-to-play and the reluctance to demote legacy (royal) players with subpar skills seems more pronounced in NorCal than anywhere else. And it may stem from Silicon Valley's affluent parents and their influence, which may run much deeper in NorCal and its clubs than any other places. Results definitely highlight NorCal teams' lack of competitiveness in ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL, and all national club competitions.
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I think the pockets of cash run deep in Nocal and SoCal.
 
shirivelli said:
And if we were to select the best 11 roster (e.g. ECNL, GA, NPL) from each major state/area - Texas, Florida, New York Tri-State (NY/NJ), Georgia, NorCal, SoCal, and so on - I believe NorCal could be one of the top teams out there.
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How could you say that when the best teams are in SoCal. Come on. SoCal has the best players.
 
I guess I don't understand the point being made here. Are you suggesting there are weak links on MVLA squads, for example, and that's due to pay-to-play?
 
shirivelli said:
Even the top teams in NorCal, such as MVLA, Mustang SC, and Bay Area Surf, still struggle to compete at the national level due to the legacy of pay-to-play dynamic. There are numerous talented players in NorCal, especially in the Bay Area, but they appear to be more dispersed out in multiple clubs, impacting the region's competitiveness in high-stake competitions.

And if we were to select the best 11 roster (e.g. ECNL, GA, NPL) from each major state/area - Texas, Florida, New York Tri-State (NY/NJ), Georgia, NorCal, SoCal, and so on - I believe NorCal could be one of the top teams out there. Perhaps only SoCal or Texas could give them a run for their money. Soccer is truly a team sport that having a weaker link with two or more players makes a noticeable difference at such a high level of competition.

Unfortunately, the prevalence of pay-to-play and the reluctance to demote legacy (royal) players with subpar skills seems more pronounced in NorCal than anywhere else. And it may stem from Silicon Valley's affluent parents and their influence, which may run much deeper in NorCal and its clubs than any other places. Results definitely highlight NorCal teams' lack of competitiveness in ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL, and all national club competitions.
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I don't think Silicon Valley money is as material as population. You don't have to have 8 figure wealth to afford club soccer (although it would help!). You just need to have enough. SoCal has a bigger population of people with enough. So with the top clubs, you have a bigger pool of top talent who have enough to pay club fees. This washes out kids who have enough but aren't as good.
 
NorCalDad said:
I guess I don't understand the point being made here. Are you suggesting there are weak links on MVLA squads, for example, and that's due to pay-to-play?
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Yes. My premis stems from the overall lack of competitiveness in NorCal teams across various leagues such as ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL in national club competitions. Given the player talent pool here, there must be some common denominator or running theme among all these clubs regarding this phenomenon. NorCal definitely has quality players at each of their respective levels, but these players seem to be dispersed and have a hard time coming together - even at the top clubs in the area. Again, the reason for this is explained above.
 
Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:
I don't think Silicon Valley money is as material as population. You don't have to have 8 figure wealth to afford club soccer (although it would help!). You just need to have enough. SoCal has a bigger population of people with enough. So with the top clubs, you have a bigger pool of top talent who have enough to pay club fees. This washes out kids who have enough but aren't as good.
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Interesting point - much larger talent pool and the number of clubs in the area to observe them. Possibly, but the top teams should still act as magnets to attract the cream of the crop of players for competition, which is not happening in NorCal. Nonetheless, it is an interesting thought that NorCal may have a higher density of soccer clubs relative to the playing population than other places. If so, it may also support my hypothesis as to why the clubs are so fixated on retaining their legacy customers with subpar skills here. In my aforementioned thought, I was leaning more toward affluent parents with their club board of director roles and club financing support, setting the culture that allows for a more pay-to-play system in NorCal. And after past years of this, it has spread and set the underlying club culture and how they operate more so in NorCal than any other places out there.
 
Premise is questionable. Supporting data provided doesn't support questionable premise. Reasoning given for cause of premise is completely off the wall. May as well blame the changing mating habits of the blue whale or the collapse of the turnip market in southeast asia.
 
shirivelli said:
Yes. My premis stems from the overall lack of competitiveness in NorCal teams across various leagues such as ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL in national club competitions. Given the player talent pool here, there must be some common denominator or running theme among all these clubs regarding this phenomenon. NorCal definitely has quality players at each of their respective levels, but these players seem to be dispersed and have a hard time coming together - even at the top clubs in the area. Again, the reason for this is explained above.
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I don't think clubs like MVLA and San Juan support your premise -- perhaps some of the other ECNL clubs do, I have no idea. Players literally relocate their homes so they can play for those clubs due to their reputations. MVLA is the 9th ranked club in the nation. I just can't imagine those clubs keeping legacy players because their parents have a lot of money. Other clubs? perhaps.
 
Nor Cal should be getting ready to send their PDP teams to the Gothia Cup.
I'd imagine the U15/U16 team they are going to put together will end up having close to 6-8 kids who are either currently part of the USYNT domestic camp rosters or part of other countries' programs. So yes, Nor Cal has alot of talent.
And most parents and kids dont' like the time commitments. Even when the PDP teams get together in locations like Danville, Dublin or Vallejo most of the kids are in for 4-6 round trip just for that one practice.

Maybe the lack of competetiveness is really a result of the drive back and forth.
San Francisco to MVLA roundtrip including the practice time is 3-4.5 hrs a trip.
Sacramento is a 5- 6hr round trip minimum to the Bay Area or South Bay. Within the Sacramento area you have a bottle neck on the causeway bridge that most parents wont cross because of the traffic. Eastern part of Sac County to Davis Legacy is 3.5-4.5hr round trip.
Most just aren't going to do that 3 to 4 weekday nights.
 
Pay to play creates problems, but there is a simpler explanation for the weak teams within norcal.

A region of 15M people can't support ten top level teams. We just don't have 200 elite players every year. So we get some strong teams and some weak.

But the current system has its advantages. I'd rather drive to Placer than fly to La Roca, so don't change things too fast.

That's not to say we can't do better. I'd love to see a Central Valley ECNL team. They'd be fun for my kid to play against.
 
I think the other possibility is availability of good coaching. It's hard enough to find good coaching on the boys side in the Bay Area. Maybe it's a cost of living thing, or maybe just a numbers game.

I think good players in SoCal travel a ton for various strong teams as much as they do in NorCal. I remember hearing about kids from Bakersfield playing for the Blues at one point.

It also probably doesn't help that there are GA/NPL clubs in NorCal that would do quite well in NorCal ECNL. It would be better if they were all in the same league.
 
shirivelli said:
Even the top teams in NorCal, such as MVLA, Mustang SC, and Bay Area Surf, still struggle to compete at the national level due to the legacy of pay-to-play dynamic. There are numerous talented players in NorCal, especially in the Bay Area, but they appear to be more dispersed out in multiple clubs, impacting the region's competitiveness in high-stake competitions.

And if we were to select the best 11 roster (e.g. ECNL, GA, NPL) from each major state/area - Texas, Florida, New York Tri-State (NY/NJ), Georgia, NorCal, SoCal, and so on - I believe NorCal could be one of the top teams out there. Perhaps only SoCal or Texas could give them a run for their money. Soccer is truly a team sport that having a weaker link with two or more players makes a noticeable difference at such a high level of competition.

Unfortunately, the prevalence of pay-to-play and the reluctance to demote legacy (royal) players with subpar skills seems more pronounced in NorCal than anywhere else. And it may stem from Silicon Valley's affluent parents and their influence, which may run much deeper in NorCal and its clubs than any other places. Results definitely highlight NorCal teams' lack of competitiveness in ECNL, GA, ECRL, NPL, and all national club competitions.
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OH it's alive and well in SOCAL- don't kid yourself... Each ECNL team has 5-6 really good players and the rest be payin' and playin' (or not)... 💩 🤣
 
Orangeteam said:
Nor Cal should be getting ready to send their PDP teams to the Gothia Cup.
I'd imagine the U15/U16 team they are going to put together will end up having close to 6-8 kids who are either currently part of the USYNT domestic camp rosters or part of other countries' programs. So yes, Nor Cal has alot of talent.
And most parents and kids dont' like the time commitments. Even when the PDP teams get together in locations like Danville, Dublin or Vallejo most of the kids are in for 4-6 round trip just for that one practice.

Maybe the lack of competitiveness is really a result of the drive back and forth.
San Francisco to MVLA roundtrip including the practice time is 3-4.5 hrs a trip.
Sacramento is a 5- 6hr round trip minimum to the Bay Area or South Bay. Within the Sacramento area you have a bottle neck on the causeway bridge that most parents wont cross because of the traffic. Eastern part of Sac County to Davis Legacy is 3.5-4.5hr round trip.
Most just aren't going to do that 3 to 4 weekday nights.
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That is what I was thinking. I think the bay is an obstacle. The other issue is just population density. However, the issue is a minor one. N. Cal has great soccer and there is an ebb and flow. We are talking about who is winning national championships, not competitiveness, but if you look at N. Cal competing, I think N. Cal competes just fine. Take out Koge and Surf from So Cal, I don't think there is a difference.
 
This is exactly my point, where NorCal have numerous talented players, especially in the Bay Area, but NorCal has NOT been competitive in the recent years in high-stake competitions. Noted below for ECNL representation at the national level.

SW Conference dominating ECNL playoffs

Surprised that there is not much attention on how competitive the SW ECNL girls teams were in the ECNL National playoffs. SD Surf National Champions in 2006, 2009, 2011 groups. Beach 2007 beat Legends in the final. Slammers Koge beat Legends in the 2010 final. 2011 final 4 had 3 SW teams. 2010...
socalsoccer.com socalsoccer.com
 
I believe your premise of "numerous talented players" is the issue. Are NorCal players heavily represented at national team camps? It seems like SoCal is. Please don't reference college recruitment, as that is tainted by pay-for-play issues.
 
shirivelli said:
This is exactly my point, where NorCal have numerous talented players, especially in the Bay Area, but NorCal has NOT been competitive in the recent years in high-stake competitions. Noted below for ECNL representation at the national level.

SW Conference dominating ECNL playoffs

Surprised that there is not much attention on how competitive the SW ECNL girls teams were in the ECNL National playoffs. SD Surf National Champions in 2006, 2009, 2011 groups. Beach 2007 beat Legends in the final. Slammers Koge beat Legends in the 2010 final. 2011 final 4 had 3 SW teams. 2010...
socalsoccer.com socalsoccer.com
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Great players of great talent works well in the game of Tennis. Winning team championships is a totally different animal. Far more important in winning championships is chemistry and teamwork. When the talent is there but winning championships is not, look at those issues to determine why. It probably gets close to the answers of why So Cal is doing better. Obviously the best teams are teams that have high talent, chemistry and teamwork. It starts with leadership at the top of the organization defining and enforcement of the guiding principles of winning which leads to development which leads to winning which leads to development. That is why the rich get richer.

In NorCal, I like what I see at MVLA. They seem to have consistently competitive teams and it’s all about competing. If you can compete, you will eventually win your share of championships.
 
davidnunez said:
I believe your premise of "numerous talented players" is the issue. Are NorCal players heavily represented at national team camps? It seems like SoCal is. Please don't reference college recruitment, as that is tainted by pay-for-play issues.
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Nor Cal is actually well represented in general at the youth level.
I believe at the '09s for Concacaf there were 3 from Nor Cal and 1 from SoCal. And to be honest about youth development there were 5 from Norcal. The other 2 grew up in NorCal and moved in the last two years (MW is not a SoCal native she is from Sacramento, and MB isn't from Kansas, she's from Sacramento as well)

I was told the 10's current roster announcement had 7 from NorCal and 4 from So Cal.

Sacramento in general suffers from being on a island, but that area has alot of talent but it's spread out over too many clubs.
Same with the Bay Area.
 
davidnunez said:
I believe your premise of "numerous talented players" is the issue. Are NorCal players heavily represented at national team camps? It seems like SoCal is. Please don't reference college recruitment, as that is tainted by pay-for-play issues.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure that's a great metric. Player identification is a whole mess of it's own. Just look at how PDP works. I suspect there are a lot of players that would do well on the various YNTs but just haven't been identified. But, yeah, undoubtedly there are more YNT players in SoCal than NorCal. It's just a numbers game. It would be pretty easy to verify some assumptions here.

I think to make NorCal more competitive you'd have to combine the best clubs/teams from the various top leagues. So take the best teams/clubs from MLSN, ECNL, NPL for the boys and take the best teams/clubs from ECNL, GA, NPL for the girls. I suspect the SoCal leagues are just fundamentally more competitive. Bigger pool = more better players. NorCal doesn't do itself any favors by having leagues with a wide spectrum of competitiveness. You don't have to dig too deep to see tons of blowout games in MLSN, ECNL, and GA. This idea would never happen though...for obvious reasons.
 
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