Copa Loma - Confused

A

algomez619

BRONZE
Can some one explain to me why our 08 Bronze girls (Atlante FC ) were left out of the final? Six teams and we all played each other. The top three teams after Sunday's morning game were tied with 6 points.

Their rules stated:

"Ties in Standings from Pool Play will be resolved as follows:

a. Winner of head-to-head competition
b. Goal differential
c. Goals scored
d. Goals against
e. Most wins
f. Most Shutouts"

We beat the other top three team in head-to-head but they ended up moving on to the final because of the "goal differential" we were told?

Reference: https://copaloma21.elitesoccertournaments.com/events/standings/39?flight-id=265&gender=F&age=U14

Did we get screwed?
 
algomez619 said:
Can some one explain to me why our 08 Bronze girls (Atlante FC ) were left out of the final? Six teams and we all played each other. The top three teams after Sunday's morning game were tied with 6 points.

Their rules stated:

"Ties in Standings from Pool Play will be resolved as follows:

a. Winner of head-to-head competition
b. Goal differential
c. Goals scored
d. Goals against
e. Most wins
f. Most Shutouts"

We beat the other top three team in head-to-head but they ended up moving on to the final because of the "goal differential" we were told?

Reference: https://copaloma21.elitesoccertournaments.com/events/standings/39?flight-id=265&gender=F&age=U14

Did we get screwed?
Click to expand...

Three-way tie?
 
algomez619 said:
Can some one explain to me why our 08 Bronze girls (Atlante FC ) were left out of the final? Six teams and we all played each other. The top three teams after Sunday's morning game were tied with 6 points.

Their rules stated:

"Ties in Standings from Pool Play will be resolved as follows:

a. Winner of head-to-head competition
b. Goal differential
c. Goals scored
d. Goals against
e. Most wins
f. Most Shutouts"

We beat the other top three team in head-to-head but they ended up moving on to the final because of the "goal differential" we were told?

Reference: https://copaloma21.elitesoccertournaments.com/events/standings/39?flight-id=265&gender=F&age=U14

Did we get screwed?
Click to expand...
yes, it looks like you did get screwed
 
espola said:
Three-way tie?
Click to expand...

It's a 3-way tie with 2 of the teams not playing each other, so there is no clear winner. Atalante is 1-1 against the other two, so one could argue that Atalante should advance to the final and play the team that beat them in the crossover brackets.

Coin toss by the tournament director with Surf on both sides of the coin?
 
algomez619 said:
Can some one explain to me why our 08 Bronze girls (Atlante FC ) were left out of the final? Six teams and we all played each other. The top three teams after Sunday's morning game were tied with 6 points.

Their rules stated:

"Ties in Standings from Pool Play will be resolved as follows:

a. Winner of head-to-head competition
b. Goal differential
c. Goals scored
d. Goals against
e. Most wins
f. Most Shutouts"

We beat the other top three team in head-to-head but they ended up moving on to the final because of the "goal differential" we were told?

Reference: https://copaloma21.elitesoccertournaments.com/events/standings/39?flight-id=265&gender=F&age=U14

Did we get screwed?
Click to expand...
In this case, head to head did not apply (although as you pointed out it was not clearly stated in the rules) because the three teams involved did not all play each other.

Typically in a group of four or five, you have a true round robin. When there are six teams, they usually split them 3 and 3 and have cross-group games. What that means is each of the 3 teams from group A plays each of the 3 teams from group B. But teams from group A don't play each other, and teams from group B also don't play each other.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
In this case, head to head did not apply (although as you pointed out it was not clearly stated in the rules) because the three teams involved did not all play each other.

Typically in a group of four or five, you have a true round robin. When there are six teams, they usually split them 3 and 3 and have cross-group games. What that means is each of the 3 teams from group A plays each of the 3 teams from group B. But teams from group A don't play each other, and teams from group B also don't play each other.
Click to expand...
Actually, head-to-head does apply since his team beat one of the 3 teams with same points. It should have been pointed out to a tournament director before the final game.
 
Hopefully things will be clearer next time. We assumed we were in the final and waited ~ two hours for the game. The coach saw the standings and realized we were not scheduled. He said it was surely a clerical error and went to the official table but the main guy wasn't around and folks there had no clue. The main guy came 20 mins before the game and said we were not through due to goal differential.

The coach argued the rules above but the guy was pretty firm. Never have we experienced this in any tournament but I guess there's always a first. I wonder if we can get our money back...hmmm.
 
algomez619 said:
Can some one explain to me why our 08 Bronze girls (Atlante FC ) were left out of the final? Six teams and we all played each other. The top three teams after Sunday's morning game were tied with 6 points.

Their rules stated:

"Ties in Standings from Pool Play will be resolved as follows:

a. Winner of head-to-head competition
b. Goal differential
c. Goals scored
d. Goals against
e. Most wins
f. Most Shutouts"

We beat the other top three team in head-to-head but they ended up moving on to the final because of the "goal differential" we were told?

Reference: https://copaloma21.elitesoccertournaments.com/events/standings/39?flight-id=265&gender=F&age=U14

Did we get screwed?
Click to expand...

The website shows that your team won Point Loma 4-2, but lost to SD Surf Select 0-1. SD Surf Select as #1 and Point Loma as #2 go to the finals with your team #3. So, under the tiebreaker rules with all 3 teams having 6 points, you go first level, head-to-head. Here, you and Point Loma become tied for 2nd bc your team lost head to head to SD Surf, but Point Loma lost to your team. Then, you go to GD tiebreaker. You lost in GD. Same thing happened to my daughter's team in State Cup four years ago. They didn't make the wild card bc of that.
 
Thanks for your input guys. Coach gave good talk of why it's important to score as much as you can to avoid situations like this. Glad our other Atlante team won the the silver category.
 
kasantos said:
The website shows that your team won Point Loma 4-2, but lost to SD Surf Select 0-1. SD Surf Select as #1 and Point Loma as #2 go to the finals with your team #3. So, under the tiebreaker rules with all 3 teams having 6 points, you go first level, head-to-head. Here, you and Point Loma become tied for 2nd bc your team lost head to head to SD Surf, but Point Loma lost to your team. Then, you go to GD tiebreaker. You lost in GD. Same thing happened to my daughter's team in State Cup four years ago. They didn't make the wild card bc of that.
Click to expand...
The head-to-head tiebreaker is ONLY eliminated once following scenario exists:
Team 1 - Beats Team 2
Team 2 - Beats Team 3
Team 3 - Beats Team 1
This this did not happen, so Head-to-head tiebreaker should be in place.
 
Eagle33 said:
The head-to-head tiebreaker is ONLY eliminated once following scenario exists:
Team 1 - Beats Team 2
Team 2 - Beats Team 3
Team 3 - Beats Team 1
This this did not happen, so Head-to-head tiebreaker should be in place.
Click to expand...
Nope. That's not how Calsouth applied the rule when they rejected our protested. They applied it the way I described.
 
US Club Soccer didn't actually rule on this scenario. I'm just describing how the rule could have been interpreted based on how Calsouth applied the tiebreaker rules, not that I actually agreed with Calsouth.
 
It should be more clear in the rules, but head-to-head cannot fairly apply unless all the teams in question played each other. And head to head tiebreakers never apply to three-way ties. Tournament Director was correct.
 
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