2016 Blues Bakers vs Bobak put on a big-time scrimmage for our championship State Cup Team in 2015. 03/04 won it all and I can say 90% went on to play big time D1 soccer and we all know where those Baker players went. Our team did NOT give a goal all season in 2015 and we were the best of the best. Tad needed to teach our squad some humility and reality, with some life lessons, so he scheduled the Bakers twice in 2016. First game was 11-1 blowout, and the other game was just as bad, if not worse. 7th graders are not stopping Rodman, Turner & Jackson as Soph/Junior. I would like this to happen and see if this 2011 is ready to take down 07/06.Lets set this up, 2011 vs 07/06 Lime on Lime
Blues and Surf
- Thread starter Dominic
- Start date
Looks to me like Blues are pretty awful for 2007/6, 2008, 2009 and 2010 now, with a combined 10 games under .500 and negative 28 goal differential. Surf and HBK are more than a step above for the older ages. Blues really got the older age coaches wrong about the time the Bakers transitioned out. It's too bad as I think they really had something special back in the day as one of the few all-girls clubs and sole access to the fields at the Ranch. Never say never, but it is hard to see that atmosphere being duplicated in the current southern California club environment.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Well, everything's relative. Blues 2008G is 28th in the country. Out of 1671 competitive soccer teams, they are comfortably in the 98th percentile. They are a very, very, good team by almost any objective measure. But no - they still aren't top 5, like some of the others being discussed.
My main point was that the older age group as a whole for Blues isn't considered elite and hasn't been for a while now, but I am sure there will be specific exceptions (and 'awful' was too harsh of a word). Maybe that 08 team is good example of an exception as I think they made it to Virginia last season, but they haven't shown it in the current season. They are currently 9th in the SW at 3-4-2 (wouldn't currently qualify for Champions League), with a loss and 2 ties to SW teams that have losing records. Plenty of time to turn the season around and prove they still are an exception, but the recent trend for Blues has been to go from truly elite younger teams to bottom half of the table as they get older.
What do you consider a while?
From the Spot
SILVER
Spot on.
I think the last Baker team was the 2002 team (right?). So I will say they haven't been considered elite in the older age groups since before covid (2019?). I am not sure they have won a single age group ECNL National Championship since then. In the meantime, Slammers or Surf have won several and have been the overall ECNL Club Champ in 4 out of the last 5 years (per an earlier post from someone on this thread). I am sure there have still been some very good Blues teams in the last few years, but the original questions was if Surf and Blues were still the top two girls clubs. I think it has been Surf and HBK for the last 5 years-ish, at least at the older age groups.
The surf '11's were national champs, and beat the blues in the finals in an even game. I can tell you that the '11 Surf could not beat the Surf '10's, the '09's, the '08's and the 06/07's. I would love to take up that bar bet! Now, if you take that '11 Surf team and project those players to be 4 years older, you might have something to talk about.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Correct - the Blues are an anomaly. The Surf teams all tend to get progressively stronger as they age, as would be expected (though 2008G has a case for beating 07/06). It's normal. And every single older team on Surf and Koge, would be expected to beat the 2011G Blues team.
Mystery Train
GOLD
Blues is a small club compared to Surf and back in the day, a coach (example the Baker brothers) would start with a team at the youngest level and take them all the way until they age out. I'm sure at Surf, the olders coaches just stick to their age group. It makes sense that Surf would be able to consistently increase their talent consolidation as you move up age groups, whereas Blues has always had one or two unbeatable teams in a specific age group which stick together until the end of their youth soccer run.
The Baker 01's and 02's were probably the most dominant youth teams ever assembled. I think they went like 3 years without a loss at one point. My kid was an '02 and played one of her greatest games against them her junior year and held them scoreless (we parked the bus in front of the goal that game for sure). They played very direct, as I recall, but on the rare occasion they were up against a team which had the physicality and speed to match up with them, they could switch and play possession, too. Baker acted like an ass on the sidelines if they weren't killing the other team, however.
The Baker 01's and 02's were probably the most dominant youth teams ever assembled. I think they went like 3 years without a loss at one point. My kid was an '02 and played one of her greatest games against them her junior year and held them scoreless (we parked the bus in front of the goal that game for sure). They played very direct, as I recall, but on the rare occasion they were up against a team which had the physicality and speed to match up with them, they could switch and play possession, too. Baker acted like an ass on the sidelines if they weren't killing the other team, however.
We will see what the future holds for the Blues. Right now its the 2011 and down they are focusing on. They have not switched coaches for the 2011 and 2012 teams when they hit ECNL like they did the 2009 and 2010 teams. So far that change in overall strategy seems to be working as those teams are holding together and performing and when that happens its attracts talent. It was a shame the 2009 and 2010 had to be the examples as to why it doesn't always work to switch coaches when these teams hit ECNL age but I also feel it depends on the coaches these teams are switched too. Both those teams dominated year after year after year and were both in the ECNL finals in 2023 with bona fide chances to win the title and the next year both teams imploded.
There are also better clubs out there that are newer to the ECNL scene that might just be run better than the Blues i.e Pats, Beach, Legends. These clubs are what 2 to 4 years into their ECNL journeys? It takes time for the parents to figure out there are better options and for those teams on those clubs to start winning and to attract the talent to get to the elite level. Sometimes it happens quickly like what Legends is doing for example but that shouldn't be expected. The Blues definitely did have something special being the only girls club and being so dominate for so many years like they were and then having the Ranch fields. Perhaps they can grab that magic again with the 2011 and 2012 and down teams. Time will tell. I can say the Blues name still does hold some weight when its mentioned when girls club soccer is discussed.
That was the best team ever, I mean that 100%. My kids 03/04 team went undefeated and won State Cup and set the record at SoCal Blues, beating the Baker Bros old record for the team that went the longest without giving up a goal. I thought we were the best ever
until we played them. That team was freaking fast, had top defenders and a really good GK. Anyone who had a child that did well against them got lot's confidence and deals from colleges because they stood against the best ever assembled. When my kid scored on that #1 team of all time and we went up 1-0, one of the bros went off (too loud and mean for me but to each his own) and defender was taken out to show the others you don't take a nap on any opponent, especially 6th & 7th graders. We chose Tad because he also took teams from U11-U18 but they changed the age and that stupid league called the Girls Development Academy ruined anything to do about a being a team. Tad and Blues preached team first and lifelong friendships. Players would go to each other's weddings. All about the team but the GDA became all about the "me" and more about the individual star player and not teams. Players now are put in a pool and then each week your told where to play and for what team.Very analytical thinking but there has to be some common sense application. To say 12/13yo will "straight up beat" 17/18yo is a absurd.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Sure - but it's not "extrapolating" anything. It's comparing SR strength ratings for one team entity vs. another. One can discount the validity of the predictions when comparing 1 year to the next year - and yes, the predictivity goes down a bit. Makes sense to assume as you go from year to year to year, the predictivity will continue to go down - and at some point it gets silly. A U17 team isn't going to beat a U8 team by 25 goals. They are going to beat them by 120 goals, or zero goals, as it isn't a real game that would ever be played. Likely it's the same here for 2011 v. 07/06. It's not ever going to be a real game that would ever be played.
SR answers the question "how strong is this team compared to its peers" phenomenally well, as long as we agree that "strong" means this team will likely beat that team. And it lets you answer hypothetical questions like above, tied to at least some actual performance about how strong each team is compared to its peers. It certainly doesn't guarantee exactly what would happen - especially in cases like this when it is never likely to happen in the real world anyway.
SR answers the question "how strong is this team compared to its peers" phenomenally well, as long as we agree that "strong" means this team will likely beat that team. And it lets you answer hypothetical questions like above, tied to at least some actual performance about how strong each team is compared to its peers. It certainly doesn't guarantee exactly what would happen - especially in cases like this when it is never likely to happen in the real world anyway.
From the Spot
SILVER
When didn't he!