Rant: League fracturing is asinine

[sigmabody]

I know it's been said before (numerous times), but we're well past the point where US Soccer needs to step in and obliterate all this idiocy with respect to different fractured leagues.

My son plays BU16. Currently his team is in EA2. There are rules for EA/EA2 (and SoCal, and presumably most of the other leagues) which prevent cross-league play for most players. Currently, these are the major fall leagues for BU16 in SoCal, as far as I can tell:
- MLSN-HD
- MLSN-AD
- EA
- EA2
- ECNL
- ECNL-RL
- ECNL-RL Regional
- N1L, with 4x divisions
- SoCal League, with 4x regions, and 3x divisions
- PSSLU
- SWSL

Almost every single league is all over the map, in terms of team levels. The EA2 league alone ranges from Top 15 in the state, to equivalent of SoCal Flight 3, and this is not an anomaly. This make competition levels absurd and unbalanced, and for absolutely no good reason, other than the competing pathways, club priorities, and walled gardens the leagues have created and propagated.

Having 10+ leagues would be acceptable, in concept, if there was a hard and enforced rule that leagues could not prohibit cross-league player participation. This might lead to a lot of league forfeits and scheduling issues, but at least in that scenario, kids could get playing time in competitive games. The current status quo is utterly ridiculous, though: teams which are at vastly different skill levels are being forced to play each other, just to satisfy arbitrary divisions in competition groupings, just because all the league operators want to "win", at the expense of the kids and the sport itself.

The only real cross-league competition happens at tournaments, which are expensive and often travel-heavy. Truly, is this the best US Soccer can do? Or are they just completely asleep at the wheel here? As a parent, this is immensely frustrating (and I'm not even considering other concerns here, such as practice squad players on high-end teams, etc.). How has soccer become this terrible?

 

[Scrub It Kook]

 

[Grace T.]

View attachment 41112

Agree but in fairness we can't agree on an objective in what it's trying to do and in trying to hit all the objectives we wind up hitting none of them including at cross purposes with each other. Simultaneously it is: 1) to develop future pros and to provide cannon fodder for those pros to practice against, 2) to develop college athletes, 3) to enable high school players to gain a leg up on rec and multisport counter parts for slots and thereby either gain extracurriculars for their list or just play for their high school for the fun/glory of it all, 4) to provide athletic and moral enrichment for children, 5) to secure trophies and bragging rights for parents, 6) to provide kids a place to practice team work and socialize, 7) to provide salaries for coaches, refs and Docs, and 8) as an investment for those who build and manage clubs. The only way to really remedy this is to provide 1 unified pyramid under the command of US Soccer but that's simply not going to happen esp. since you can't get the top (the MLS) or the bottom (AYSO) to play ball together. The only rational marker here is the girl's side (for the time being, until they are forced to adopt the academy model to save the USWNT) at least makes a little more sense.

 

[sigmabody]

Agree on the point of conflicting objectives, although I still think US Soccer could do substantially more to fix the existing and obvious problems, even without tacking all of them.

For example, consider if they simply mandated two things:
- Leagues are no longer allowed to restrict competition for players and/or teams (or have their charters dropped, etc.)
- Regional leagues are encouraged to develop and share platforms to coordinate scheduling friendlies between any two teams which are geographically close and competitively similar, while streamlining logistics for such

You could still have your closed leagues and such, but suddenly the world would open up for alternative friendlies, and all the leagues which are only there as walled gardens and/or "pathways" would be exposed and weakened significantly. Teams wouldn't need to attend tournaments to find level competition, and many mid-level teams could probably forgo leagues entirely. Then US Soccer could revisit in a couple years, when the dust settled, and refine further.

I do not think it's an intractable problem at all, but it's not going to solve itself by the only powers who could solve it doing their best ostrich impression.

 

[Grace T.]

Agree on the point of conflicting objectives, although I still think US Soccer could do substantially more to fix the existing and obvious problems, even without tacking all of them.

For example, consider if they simply mandated two things:
- Leagues are no longer allowed to restrict competition for players and/or teams (or have their charters dropped, etc.)
- Regional leagues are encouraged to develop and share platforms to coordinate scheduling friendlies between any two teams which are geographically close and competitively similar, while streamlining logistics for such

You could still have your closed leagues and such, but suddenly the world would open up for alternative friendlies, and all the leagues which are only there as walled gardens and/or "pathways" would be exposed and weakened significantly. Teams wouldn't need to attend tournaments to find level competition, and many mid-level teams could probably forgo leagues entirely. Then US Soccer could revisit in a couple years, when the dust settled, and refine further.

I do not think it's an intractable problem at all, but it's not going to solve itself by the only powers who could solve it doing their best ostrich impression.

At the higher levels olders players are not looking for more games. You’ll only hear them groan. More games are more chances of injury for little benefit (no college looks, no help getting on high school teams, no points towards a trophy). Typically the middle school parents are the parents who want more games…it will change.

Ps if your kid is bu16 he’s a freshman right? The high school season is brutal. If he’s playing high school the last thing you’ll want is more games that make him less healthy. Freshman year was the last year my kid played Latino league (since he was only jv that year). Once varsity hit forget it.

 

[shankbone]

I know it's been said before (numerous times), but we're well past the point where US Soccer needs to step in and obliterate all this idiocy with respect to different fractured leagues.

My son plays BU16. Currently his team is in EA2. There are rules for EA/EA2 (and SoCal, and presumably most of the other leagues) which prevent cross-league play for most players. Currently, these are the major fall leagues for BU16 in SoCal, as far as I can tell:
- MLSN-HD
- MLSN-AD
- EA
- EA2
- ECNL
- ECNL-RL
- ECNL-RL Regional
- N1L, with 4x divisions
- SoCal League, with 4x regions, and 3x divisions
- PSSLU
- SWSL

Almost every single league is all over the map, in terms of team levels. The EA2 league alone ranges from Top 15 in the state, to equivalent of SoCal Flight 3, and this is not an anomaly. This make competition levels absurd and unbalanced, and for absolutely no good reason, other than the competing pathways, club priorities, and walled gardens the leagues have created and propagated.

Having 10+ leagues would be acceptable, in concept, if there was a hard and enforced rule that leagues could not prohibit cross-league player participation. This might lead to a lot of league forfeits and scheduling issues, but at least in that scenario, kids could get playing time in competitive games. The current status quo is utterly ridiculous, though: teams which are at vastly different skill levels are being forced to play each other, just to satisfy arbitrary divisions in competition groupings, just because all the league operators want to "win", at the expense of the kids and the sport itself.

The only real cross-league competition happens at tournaments, which are expensive and often travel-heavy. Truly, is this the best US Soccer can do? Or are they just completely asleep at the wheel here? As a parent, this is immensely frustrating (and I'm not even considering other concerns here, such as practice squad players on high-end teams, etc.). How has soccer become this terrible?

There are 8 coast divisions for B16 also - Premier/Championship to Flight 3

 

[shankbone]

Agree on the point of conflicting objectives, although I still think US Soccer could do substantially more to fix the existing and obvious problems, even without tacking all of them.

For example, consider if they simply mandated two things:
- Leagues are no longer allowed to restrict competition for players and/or teams (or have their charters dropped, etc.)
- Regional leagues are encouraged to develop and share platforms to coordinate scheduling friendlies between any two teams which are geographically close and competitively similar, while streamlining logistics for such

You could still have your closed leagues and such, but suddenly the world would open up for alternative friendlies, and all the leagues which are only there as walled gardens and/or "pathways" would be exposed and weakened significantly. Teams wouldn't need to attend tournaments to find level competition, and many mid-level teams could probably forgo leagues entirely. Then US Soccer could revisit in a couple years, when the dust settled, and refine further.

I do not think it's an intractable problem at all, but it's not going to solve itself by the only powers who could solve it doing their best ostrich impression.

The close geography is key - each rename or new league creates more drive time. Each feeder league (EA/EA2 and ECRL/ECRL CA) is attempts to hoard the last bits of talent... or is it just to get paying customers. Hmmm...

 

[Scrub It Kook]

Ps if your kid is bu16 he’s a freshman right? The high school season is brutal. If he’s playing high school the last thing you’ll want is more games that make him less healthy. Freshman year was the last year my kid played Latino league (since he was only jv that year). Once varsity hit forget it.

Agree. High School soccer is ridiculous with how many games they squeeze in such a short period of time. 19 games in 8 is asking for injury.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

The close geography is key - each rename or new league creates more drive time. Each feeder league (EA/EA2 and ECRL/ECRL CA) is attempts to hoard the last bits of talent... or is it just to get paying customers. Hmmm...

100% agree with this. and the lower letter leagues tend to be the worst. EA2 and ECNL-RL-SoCal registration fees are not much less and the travel is just as brutal with no real upside.

 

[sigmabody]

100% agree with this. and the lower letter leagues tend to be the worst. EA2 and ECNL-RL-SoCal registration fees are not much less and the travel is just as brutal with no real upside.

Yes. I'm personally aggravated that my son's team is playing EA2, since the level of competition is absolute garbage, and the club has a non-EA2 team (the "lower" team) which is playing in SoCal Flight 1, with arguably better teams. The club chose EA2 because N1L was not an option this year, and is also perceived as a dead-end for the club at ECNL-RL (due to the walled-garden of ECNL proper), and they have aspirations to get the club to MLSN. Meanwhile the kids are getting shafted by all the political garbage.

I really just want my son's team (and other kids/teams) to play competitive games against similar-level opponents locally. That's the goal. If we have to suffer through playing worthless league games also, so that the small/community club can try to climb the access ladder, that's an acceptable sacrifice in my mind, although one which shouldn't need to be made in concept. It's just the politics and the access that is forcing this crappy situation, and only an organization like US Soccer could make it better (by doing something like I suggested, and breaking down the barriers that prevent teams and clubs from just sidelining the leagues).

 

[Grace T.]

Agree. High School soccer is ridiculous with how many games they squeeze in such a short period of time. 19 games in 8 is asking for injury.

For the girls it’s just asking for an acl tear and the ecnl ecrl tournaments usually hang over thanksgiving and the first week of December which means in SoCal you have no recovery time going into high school. Why you would want to risk that with more games is beyond me.

 

[Jamisfoes]

And kick out Arizona and Nevada teams. We don’t need them. Or just make them drive to us and not us to them.

 

[shankbone]

Yes. I'm personally aggravated that my son's team is playing EA2, since the level of competition is absolute garbage, and the club has a non-EA2 team (the "lower" team) which is playing in SoCal Flight 1, with arguably better teams. The club chose EA2 because N1L was not an option this year, and is also perceived as a dead-end for the club at ECNL-RL (due to the walled-garden of ECNL proper), and they have aspirations to get the club to MLSN. Meanwhile the kids are getting shafted by all the political garbage.

I really just want my son's team (and other kids/teams) to play competitive games against similar-level opponents locally. That's the goal. If we have to suffer through playing worthless league games also, so that the small/community club can try to climb the access ladder, that's an acceptable sacrifice in my mind, although one which shouldn't need to be made in concept. It's just the politics and the access that is forcing this crappy situation, and only an organization like US Soccer could make it better (by doing something like I suggested, and breaking down the barriers that prevent teams and clubs from just sidelining the leagues).

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope your son has a coach who is positive and he's getting touches and development. At the end of the day that's what really matters. The choices for a team that wants to stay local and build are really complicated in this landscape.

 

[Carlsbad7]

And kick out Arizona and Nevada teams. We don’t need them. Or just make them drive to us and not us to them.

I dont mind driving out to Arizona and Nevada. It is annoying that clubs turn it into money maker with hotels + that parents have to pay for the coaches / trainers / whatever.

 

[Jamisfoes]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope your son has a coach who is positive and he's getting touches and development. At the end of the day that's what really matters. The choices for a team that wants to stay local and build are really complicated in this landscape.

Two years ago I tried to recruit an AYSO United goalie to our team. The mom was like she likes the coach and coach told her they will be in EA next year. This year EA is flight 3 (a C team league) and Athletic SC is still in SoCal and still doing halftime snacks.

 

[watfly]

Agree. High School soccer is ridiculous with how many games they squeeze in such a short period of time. 19 games in 8 is asking for injury.

It's not any worse than tournament play the whole summer.

I have a totally different prospective. Make high school soccer relevant again, particularly for those kids that want to play in college. Kids that want to pursue a pro track can play at an MLS team academy. Let's be honest, if your not playing at least D3 level pro soccer by the time your 17, the odds of you going pro are slim to none. Give the kids two months off in Mar Apr from competitive games, if not any formal practice, to focus on rest, recovery and cross training. Provide more showcases and less tournaments in the summer for the non-Academy kids to be seen by college coaches. Most importantly be honest about the odds of getting a scholarship and playing pro.

All this will never happen, but one can dream.

 

[Grace T.]

It's not any worse than tournament play the whole summer.

I have a totally different prospective. Make high school soccer relevant again, particularly for those kids that want to play in college. Kids that want to pursue a pro track can play at an MLS team academy. Let's be honest, if your not playing at least D3 level pro soccer by the time your 17, the odds of you going pro are slim to none. Give the kids two months off in Mar Apr from competitive games, if not any formal practice, to focus on rest, recovery and cross training. Provide more showcases and less tournaments in the summer for the non-Academy kids to be seen by college coaches. Most importantly be honest about the odds of getting a scholarship and playing pro.

All this will never happen, but one can dream.

Would love it. On the boys side because of internationals it’s almost to the point that unless you are on an academy team of top flight/residential hg team (strikers, Barca, img, cedar stars) you aren’t going to play d1 or even d2. But they are because of the size distance and no national uniform high school break never going to let the lesser hg teams break for high school. Trump admin (and I believe there’s even a bill) has proposed restricting the amount of international players if the school takes fed money…that’s the only thing that would really make a difference. Girls will come under increasing pressure too as foreign academy rejects are beginning to rush into the market.

Two years ago I tried to recruit an AYSO United goalie to our team. The mom was like she likes the coach and coach told her they will be in EA next year. This year EA is flight 3 (a C team league) and Athletic SC is still in SoCal and still doing halftime snacks.

I don’t understand the athletic sc business plan. Without access to higher letter league (is the plan to get it?), a local base and the ayso player base to recruit from, I don’t see how they will stay afloat.

Ps you should have offered to cater snacks. Taco bar instead of orange slices.

 

[Jamisfoes]

I joke but AYSO is actually awesome. For my son, I have already told him, he has two choices for soccer, ECNL/MLS next HD or AYSO extra. Either choice is ok with me. Anything in between is just a waste of time and money.

 

[Paul Spacey]

Leagues clown show won't change anytime soon. Parents need to find the best possible environment for their kids to develop on and off the field. 15 years in club soccer tells me exceptional environments are rare but if you look hard enough you'll find one.

Majority of kids are not playing in college. Almost none are going pro. That's the reality and parents need to enter the club landscape understanding it.

If your kid is truly exceptional, you can tolerate the travel of the big leagues. If they are not exceptional, the travel is not worth it.

I can only speak for the boys' side. If you can find a coach that will help your son have a great experience on the field while developing resilience, confidence, big balls and some understanding of the world outside of traditional indoctrination, that's a win. They go into adulthood and off to college (playing soccer or not) in a strong place.

 

[shankbone]

I joke but AYSO is actually awesome. For my son, I have already told him, he has two choices for soccer, ECNL/MLS next HD or AYSO extra. Either choice is ok with me. Anything in between is just a waste of time and money.

AYSO extra is great for 9/10 - I don't really see any difference between a game at that age and a club game. At 11/12 its still pretty good but clubs are circling and teams get picked apart. 13/14 mass exodus and the competition varies hugely (like the 2nd tier Letter leagues Nothing after 14.

 

[Jamisfoes]

AYSO extra is great for 9/10 - I don't really see any difference between a game at that age and a club game. At 11/12 its still pretty good but clubs are circling and teams get picked apart. 13/14 mass exodus and the competition varies hugely (like the 2nd tier Letter leagues Nothing after 14.

By AYSO I really mean AP classes.
If he isn’t good enough for first tier leagues, he should just focus on school.