SoCal Schedule
- Thread starter sandiegofutbolguy
- Start date
superfly10
BRONZE
Pretty incredible what SOCAL has done.
No F3 in the GU16 division for example. So allowed teams from F3 last year to jump to flight 1 to create brackets of 10 plus teams and combining regions. I'm sure some of those Beach teams going to love traveling to Santa Clarita.
When SCDSL broke off, it was apparently to create a league with the most elite clubs, now you got organizations like Whitier Area Youth Soccer which has been recreational with some signature level teams.
Such a money grab for SOCAL (yes its always been that way but they aren't even try to hide it anymore). It's a joke.
No F3 in the GU16 division for example. So allowed teams from F3 last year to jump to flight 1 to create brackets of 10 plus teams and combining regions. I'm sure some of those Beach teams going to love traveling to Santa Clarita.
When SCDSL broke off, it was apparently to create a league with the most elite clubs, now you got organizations like Whitier Area Youth Soccer which has been recreational with some signature level teams.
Such a money grab for SOCAL (yes its always been that way but they aren't even try to hide it anymore). It's a joke.
It’s not really their fault at the older ages. It’s that high schoolers either go letter league or they drop out for because they’ve got other things (like robotics tournies, band concerts, jobs or boyfriend girlfriends). And for letter league on the boys side there mls1, mls2, ea, ea2, encl, ecrl, n1l, usl, upsl, e64(still around?). F1 is really f6 now when all is said and done.
My favorite is that the new ayso select teams (in direct competition with the spun of united teams) in addition to playing each other will be competing in coast to get club experience.
This is the real/stupid problem: all the different leagues, and competing exclusively within the league brackets.It’s not really their fault at the older ages. It’s that high schoolers either go letter league or they drop out for because they’ve got other things (like robotics tournies, band concerts, jobs or boyfriend girlfriends). And for letter league on the boys side there mls1, mls2, ea, ea2, encl, ecrl, n1l, usl, upsl, e64(still around?). F1 is really f6 now when all is said and done.
My favorite is that the new ayso select teams (in direct competition with the spun of united teams) in addition to playing each other will be competing in coast to get club experience.
This is going to be immensely frustrating, I think, for current and upcoming seasons for my situation (and many others, I think). My son's team is starting in EA2. The team could play EA or maybe ECNL-RL/MLSN-AD level (competitive in their last tournament with those level teams), but instead will play a mostly "wasted" season against teams in EA2 spanning ECNL to Flight 3 level of actual ability, because league level is determined per club, and the club itself is only in EA2. The team could be playing N1L with a much better/narrow band of local competition, but the club is pushing for club league advancement, so the kids are going to suffer with these arbitrary divisions which make no sense whatsoever from a competitive perspective.
This whole landscape is stupid. US Soccer needs to step in, put the hammer down, and force letter leagues to allow cross-league seasonal competition with no penalties for teams or clubs (and/or manage the entire competitive schedule independently). The various "pathway" leagues should be pathways to exposure and advancement for kids; right now they are just traps and barriers for kids, where clubs feel like they are forced to play along. It's infuriating.
It makes so much more sense now as to why I see a lot of "league-less" teams playing in high level tournaments and brackets: that's the only way to have optimal competition for kids now. The leagues are straight up antithetical to what's best for the kids.
superfly10
BRONZE
It’s not really their fault at the older ages. It’s that high schoolers either go letter league or they drop out for because they’ve got other things (like robotics tournies, band concerts, jobs or boyfriend girlfriends). And for letter league on the boys side there mls1, mls2, ea, ea2, encl, ecrl, n1l, usl, upsl, e64(still around?). F1 is really f6 now when all is said and done.
My favorite is that the new ayso select teams (in direct competition with the spun of united teams) in addition to playing each other will be competing in coast to get club experience.
I agree to an extent but at this point SOCAL is making sure there are no checks and balances for their league. It was a lazy job to do what they did at U16 and above for bracketing, there's enough teams to make it work properly. But also allowing lower F3 teams to jump to F1 is in no way appropriate for supposed development.
There's a North/West combined division -- why does a Huntington Team from Rush have to travel to Santa Clarita or vice versa? Just a quick look at some teams/cities in that division:
Pico Rivera
Corona
Santa Clarita
Murrieta
Mission Viejo
La Verne
Whittier
It's getting silly for SOCAL. All for what? To kill off CSL? Getting accepted to SOCAL meant something a few years ago.
And don't get me started on "pathways" for N1, ECNL-RL, and ECNL. Sorry but a team from Bell Gardens FC might be able to play N1 and fair well, but Bell Gardens FC isn't going to get ECNL club status so what happens after that? The whole system is as bad from a competition standpoint as it was about 10 years ago. Lots of smoke and mirrors, empty promises, etc.
superfly10
BRONZE
This is exactly the issue. Teams at smaller clubs are straight up trapped and they are oblivious to it. I don't know how many conversations I have with parents in the past few months from smaller clubs who had coaches telling them they were going to be ECNL in another year but that's not based in reality. I've seen teams at the DPLO level win the fall season and in the playoffs, but they have to return to DPLO this year because the club wasn't granted DPL level.
Then you have clubs who are so scared of being real with their teams evaluations when they don't deserve actual elite team status because they know those teams will leave and find a club that will promise them a badge for at least one season.
Until there are actual playoffs and cross league competition, it's going to stay the same. CSL had it right with League Cup play and cross-bracket playing. SCDSL had it with playoffs for a little bit then just did away with it. Create SOCAL League Cup for All Regions or create In Season Tournaments/Showcases so teams can compete. There's no incentive for the league to do so except money.
For the past few seasons, I've stressed to parents that tournaments are far more important than the fall season for the competition aspect.
You have a middle schooler or freshman in the middle of the pack huh? That's why it's your perspective. The lower you go on the totem poll the more erratic and varied the competition becomes because then teams begin to attract quality players by coaches and location rather than by badge. So the variance in Academy clubs<MLSN HG<MLS AD< EA< EA2 (which pretty much takes anyone).
Again the system on the boys side is made solely to benefit those academy teams. The rest of MLSN is practice cannon fodder for the academy teams hence the year round schedule without break for high school (since there is no national HS soccer calendar due to weather around the US). The MLSN HG players then get some D1 and D2 college looks for the spots not taken by international. That's the trade off they are making. The older high school age kids don't care about the cross tournament play you are mentioned. The Academy players and top tiers are worried about overuse and injury that will take them out of the recruitment cycles especially for the big recruitment showcases like flex and the playoffs....they aren't interested in trophy tournaments. Playing in a tournament would only serve to give the benchers start time and overall hurt the team's reputation. The other mid level high school teams have athletes doing summer high school training, then fall club season, then an injury prone marathon high school season, then spring travel and playsoffs all while juggling a busy high school season. The cross play action will just be greeted with groans.
Yes there are a bunch of local clubs locked out of being able to secure decent players and charge large fees for the privilege. Yes MLSN hasn't given any rhyme or reason why some teams are given admittance...ever since the Bulls were admitted to HG no less it's completely blown any obvious rationale. But also pro rel in Cal South was a big mess and didn't work either...just those coaches that were able to recruit (by payment, relationships, recruitment relationships, reputation, luck, or hook and crook) were rewarded....and the big clubs paid those coaches the big dollars so while it was more egalitarian and you'd get some local clubs up there, the big clubs still dominated. And yes coaches promise "soon everything"...eagle boys have been hearing about that for ECNL for years.
The problem is that too many leagues carve out the local market, so most teams have to travel for competition. N1 now requires significantly more travel compared with NPL last season. I missed the Presidio league time when Chula Vista seemed far to us in the north. Now Sunday games in OCGP sound not too bad.
For G16 - there are 3 flights for N1 - a total of 41 teams. Its just the current shuffle. F1 hasn't meant anything for a while.
(For G16 socal its 72 teams in 6 flights, mixed F1 and F2)
It’s not really their fault at the older ages. It’s that high schoolers either go letter league or they drop out for because they’ve got other things (like robotics tournies, band concerts, jobs or boyfriend girlfriends). And for letter league on the boys side there mls1, mls2, ea, ea2, encl, ecrl, n1l, usl, upsl, e64(still around?). F1 is really f6 now when all is said and done.
My favorite is that the new ayso select teams (in direct competition with the spun of united teams) in addition to playing each other will be competing in coast to get club experience.
Yea the letter leagues' dilution at the U13 and older makes the flight designations for SoCal League kind of irrelevant...
Here is a thought:
For boys, have ECNL (no RL) and MLS Next (only Homegrown, no Academy/MLS2 or EA or anything else)
And then rest can play SoCal (no NPL or anything national... SoCal is the largest youth soccer market in the country... we don't need to go national).
Flight 1, 2, then rec.
For girls, have ECNL (again, no RL) and GA (if that's their choosing based on clubs)
And then rest can play SoCal F1, 2, then rec...
At the highest levels, ok fine, play in a true national league with showcases and playoffs...
But for ALL others, just play local in SoCal League structure...
There are at least two issues buried here:
1. You’d have to mandate those ecnl and mlns teams can carry only a tight 20 or 21. No reserve players or development players that go to practice with the first team hoping for some playtime breakthroughs to prove themselves. Otherwise the clubs just sell the spots to desperate families to fund their scholarships. The mls2 and ecrl are there to justify the structure by giving the b tier a place to play
2. you’d get the complaints from locked out clubs. The boys eagles for ecnl and the clubs like athletics trying to prove themselves in mls2 for promotion. E64 was started by clubs locked out including ayso united looking to build their own competitor? And then what do you do with the SoCal elites of the world when they get kicked from socal league? Pro/rel…for all the love the old coast system gets around here the reality is it had problems too and didn’t work.
Scrub It Kook
SILVER ELITE
Unfortunately SoCal itself is pretty irrelevant at U13 & above. It's primarily a youngers league and an olders Rec league. ECNL & MLSN have done a fine job in selling the various tiers in their ecosystems. Will be interesting to see how relevant N1 actually is. I'd venture a guess somewhere around EA2/ECNL-RL-SoCal
Has it ever occur to you guys that pay to play parents like all these different leagues? If you have an average player and you are paying $3000 a year, would you rather have your kid be in a league called SoCal flight 3 or N1? Personally I think number 1 sounds better than 3. People need a reason to spend their money and it doesn’t matter how irrational the reason is.
Scrub It Kook
SILVER ELITE
Touché. But no, i don't think they enjoy it. I think it get rationalized that way for sure.
I certainly hope N1 clubs aren't charging $3,000 a year to train on some beat up rec center field. And flight 3 better be less than $1,000
In my experience at the older ages the f1s are kids at mid tiered mid size schools looking to keep their high school slots without having to commute since it’s not their main thing (eg debate, service , academics…). . A few multi sports athletes in the mix. Remainder is people looking to keep hs sports as an option but either looking to keep costs down or without scholarship can’t afford better. Those doing it just for fun that speak the lingo go do Sunday Latino league (then apparently come on these boards to complain coaches at their big f3 or better hs won’t look at them).
I don't think letter leagues are all that much more expensive than SoCal Leagues... maybe a tad bit more...
it's the travel costs that blow up the budget tho... so passing on the letter league due to travel to TX AZ or East Coast would be rational...
Kids can get sick anytime. Sometimes getting sick at the right time makes you a thousand dollars richer.
The Soccer Dr
BRONZE
The whole youth soccer ecosystem is Southern California is messed up, Club based leagues being owned and operated by clubs is a recipe for disaster. A team based league being run and controlled by five clubs, is a recipe for disaster. The Club based model is a money making initiative. The club based model is a recruit and steal model, not a development model. Clubs confuse the parents and make money doing it. The USSF created the chaos, when it started the club based model - The Boys DA. They sanctioned US Club because USYS was a mess and they could control them. US Club is the wild wild west, making money off the chaos. Teams claim to the be the best in the nation when they can'y even prove the are the best in their city. They won't play the teams next to them for fear of bursting the bubble. The cost to play has risen 49% in just the last 5years. The travel is insane, why. Southern California is bigger than most teams that just played in the WC, why is ANY team leaving Southern California to play a game? Because the club based model is a money making machine, based upon confusing parents and telling them your child is on the "pathway". The USSF Pathways model is not going to solve these problems, if you are waiting for the USSF to solve the problem - good luck. The problem will only be resolved when the clubs, coaches, and parents frustrated with the current model decide enough is enough and come together to create a system where teams play the teams in the same city, teams play local and teams demonstrate they need to go regional, and beyond to get a good game. Very few teams in Southern California need to get on a plane to find a good game, and oh, has anyone ever heard of playing up.
The Soccer Dr
BRONZE
There are two types of competition team based, and club based. The team based is the traditional system, club based emerged after the USSF launched the DA in 2007. Every other club based model was started by a club(s) that were locked out. ECNL which today is a dominant League - particularly for girls - did not start as a league, it started as events designed to bring teams together as a showcase. MLS became the dominant boys league after the USSF had to disband both the girls and boys DA. MLS became the home for the majority of the DA boys clubs, and ECNL and GA split the girls DA. The other alphabet soup of club based leagues have been created because the politics of who gets into ECNL and MLS. Very few clubs have competitive teams at each age bracket, check the standings of both ECNL and MLS and you will find many teams who rarely win a game, and many games that are not competitive. The club based model is a "closed" political model, that suits the clubs who are in it. When ECNL was formed the Founding clubs/DOC's were granted veto power on acceptance of new clubs, and they will rarely - if ever - allow new clubs in. So in response US Club created NPL as its platform for growth. The club based model is not a merit based model, it's a political model - thank you USSF. The traditional team based model is an open model, and promotion and relegation is the fairest model. SCDSL - now SOCAL - was formed by the founding clubs in part because they could not accept relegation for their teams, it was a bad look. They also wanted control, which they couldn't have in an "independent" league structure. SoCal is not an independent league, it's a club managed league, managed by the founding clubs, for the benefit of the founding clubs - for another day. No one can mandate anything to ECNL, US Club does not control it Christian Lavers does. The best system, and fairest system is Open access, promotion and relegation and LOCAL play, leading into broader Southern California play. No one in Southern needs to be getting on a plane to play a game.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
The only part that I'd push back on is the belief that a closed system encourages backmarker clubs/teams more than an "open" system where there is more "fair" access for teams/clubs to join. There are backmarker teams in pretty much every level of sport, as the whole system depends on one team winning and the other team losing. In some cases, teams lose *alot*. It happens in every bracket, from top to bottom. There's a (false) belief by some that once you get to the very top levels, there won't be objectively bad teams that are much worse than the best, or even worse than the average, but that's not true. There are terrible MLS teams, there are terrible ECNL teams, and there are terrible teams in every other bracket all the way down. Pro/rel would make it a little more fluid in terms of preventing a club/team from keeping an extremely poor-performing team in place for a long time - but they'd just be replaced by the next team to perform poorly, the outcome itself doesn't go away.
All true but the issue was that pro rel didn’t really work out any better when it was in place with coast. Lots of problems: recruitment not development was rewarded; big clubs because they could afford the marketing still controlled….yes you had some random teams here and there that would pop up and succeed it was still leaning towards big clubs; you had to establish a high playing level early in order to maintain that recruitment; as a result coaches were very incentivized to take short cuts in order to get the win including booting balls, recruiting near the age line, and not building it from the back. Just going back to the old system doesn’t fix anything. The old system broke and SoCal was founded for market reasons. Both things can be true at the same time: the current system is broken, going back to the old system won’t fix it.