MLS2

[Messi>CR7]

Perhaps first-time parents at the younger ages are confused by the different flights, but everyone figured it out by U13 when MLSN kicks in. I don’t know a single parent whose kid is on the MLSN2/EA/NPL/F1 thinks their kid is playing at the highest level. It’s just mental gymnastics by the same kind of people who came up with Legends and Leaders divisions in Big10.

When I hear homegrown, the first thing that comes to my mind is tomato instead of futbol.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Our experience is different. Several parents pulled their kids from one of our NPL teams, convinced they were moving to an "MLS Next" team - when the club was instead offering second tier. Even when the coach tried to explain the tiers, the history, etc., they thought he was lying and their kid was going to be on the top team for that club. This isn't an assumption, this is verbatim. The particular MLS2 team, whatever they call it, is expected to be terrible for at least 2-3 years. Eventually - if the false marketing works and enough kids come over, it certainly can become competitive. It's fake it until you make it in yet another context.

 

[CAZZZ]

IMO, rebranding "Academy" as the weak one isn't an unintentional misstep, it's entirely designed to mislead.

This gives the club a legal way to scam parents and steal talents, esp. when the club only has MLS2.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

It's crazy. Look at just the Albion Merced MLS B11 teams. Here's Albion Merced Academy U15 and Albion Merced Tier 2 U15.

"Academy" played up a year in U16. "Tier 2" played at U15.





There is also an Albion Merced B11 "MLS Next".



It also played up a year in U16.



All in same tournament last weekend.

Deduce which team is "Real", which team is "Tier 2", based on their naming scheme, the brackets they enter, or anything else. As far as I can tell, Clubs are either horrifically inept at naming their teams, or they are intentionally trying to confuse anyone who would want to understand the basic team structure.

 

[SuckItTrebek]

Perhaps first-time parents at the younger ages are confused by the different flights, but everyone figured it out by U13 when MLSN kicks in. I don’t know a single parent whose kid is on the MLSN2/EA/NPL/F1 thinks their kid is playing at the highest level. It’s just mental gymnastics by the same kind of people who came up with Legends and Leaders divisions in Big10.

When I hear homegrown, the first thing that comes to my mind is tomato instead of futbol.

I would have to disagree with NPL. We are an NPL team and we can easily compete in and with any MLS or ECNL team out there. Our club chooses not to engage in the pay to play scheme. I am sure there are many others just like us who either choose not to pay into those high fee leagues or who for other reasons, cannot get an acceptance into those leagues. Maybe they can't afford all the admin things those leagues require a club to have in place or maybe the parents simply can't afford to reg fees. Money and cost of your league does not correlate to talent potential.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I would have to disagree with NPL. We are an NPL team and we can easily compete in and with any MLS or ECNL team out there.

This can be easily verified or disproved, without giving up your anonymity. What age group, and what's the team's SR rating? There is a 2011B RL team in CA that is stronger than all but 2 ECNL teams, and quite a few MLSN teams. There's an NPL team that's only .5 of a goal weaker, that is also stronger than the vast majority of ECNL teams and some MLSN teams. But forums are littered with people claiming the same ("my team can beat any of your teams"), when their own game history shows them to be 5+ goals weaker.

 

[East County Soccer Dad]

I would have to disagree with NPL. We are an NPL team and we can easily compete in and with any MLS or ECNL team out there. Our club chooses not to engage in the pay to play scheme. I am sure there are many others just like us who either choose not to pay into those high fee leagues or who for other reasons, cannot get an acceptance into those leagues. Maybe they can't afford all the admin things those leagues require a club to have in place or maybe the parents simply can't afford to reg fees. Money and cost of your league does not correlate to talent potential.

Sounds like either Celtic Hoops or LA City United

 

[Grace T.]

MLS next AD (academy) sounds like a higher level than MLS next HG (homegrown). Academy has always been used to signi the top team. Why would they do this? Ridiculous.

It comes from the academies. Core players at the academies are designated hg and ad. Hg are eligible for selection to mls pro and mls. Ad is not. Sounds like they carried over the distinction because they were familiar with it. Hg means something for the salary caps at pro and mls.

 

[BBB]

Good information

 

[aong cangkol]

I would have to disagree with NPL. We are an NPL team and we can easily compete in and with any MLS or ECNL team out there. Our club chooses not to engage in the pay to play scheme. I am sure there are many others just like us who either choose not to pay into those high fee leagues or who for other reasons, cannot get an acceptance into those leagues. Maybe they can't afford all the admin things those leagues require a club to have in place or maybe the parents simply can't afford to reg fees. Money and cost of your league does not correlate to talent potential.

All can be true at the same time:
1) MLSNext offers the best competition.
2) There are NPL/EA/ECNL/ECRL teams that are better than a few MLSN teams.
3) There are players who can make MLSN team but cannot afford it.
4) There are players who can make EA/ECNL/NPL but cannot afford it.

EA/ECNL/NPL are still "pay to play" by definition so I don't think they are any different than MLSN, only cheaper (5k/yr instead of 10k/yr)
There are definitely hundreds of kids stopped playing soccer after AYSO because of the cost (or transportation issue), not because of technical or athletic ability.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Agreed in (almost) full. The only quibble for me would be:

2) There are NPL/EA/ECNL/ECRL teams that are better than a few MLSN teams.

A stronger statement, and the one that the other poster is making, is that there are NPL teams (and ECRL teams), that are better than most MLS N teams. They would be expected to beat the vast majority of MLS N teams given their current rating. It's also correct to say that the number of NPL (and ECNL) teams that fit this profile is exceedingly low, and the chances of finding one that happens be local and logistically possible are fleeting.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

It's also correct to say that the number of NPL (and ECNLECRL) teams that fit this profile is exceedingly low, and the chances of finding one that happens be local and logistically possible are fleeting.

Impactful typo. Corrected above.

 

[fatdad]

One of the biggest issues with soccer in the U.S. is that the talent funnel is broken. Ideally, the best players would move into MLSN and ECNL clubs, the next tier into MLSN Academy/ECRL/NPL teams, and so on down the pyramid. In reality, costs, geography, uninformed parents, and clubs unwilling to move players up or down based on performance have created very unbalanced teams and leagues.

I have a child playing in an MLSN Academy (initially called MLSN2), and the disparity between teams has been eye-opening. On one end, you have clubs producing MLS Homegrown-level talent (e.g. Laguna United), while on the other, some teams would likely be no more than above-average Flight 2 sides.

Would be interested to get opinions on how this could be mitigated.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

One of the biggest issues with soccer in the U.S. is that the talent funnel is broken. Ideally, the best players would move into MLSN and ECNL clubs, the next tier into MLSN Academy/ECRL/NPL teams, and so on down the pyramid. In reality, costs, geography, uninformed parents, and clubs unwilling to move players up or down based on performance have created very unbalanced teams and leagues.

I have a child playing in an MLSN Academy (initially called MLSN2), and the disparity between teams has been eye-opening. On one end, you have clubs producing MLS Homegrown-level talent (e.g. Laguna United), while on the other, some teams would likely be no more than above-average Flight 2 sides.

Would be interested to get opinions on how this could be mitigated.

I appreciate your point of view. But by your own writing, IMO you're part of the problem. Your kid isn't playing in an MLS N Academy. Your kid is playing on a team in a league that MLS N set up to fool parents that their kids will be playing with an MLS Academy and getting MLS Academy quality training. They even intentionally misnamed it "Academy Division".

I agree that there will be some MLS2 teams that are high quality, as the 1st teams have so many high quality players to roster that they either have to find a team to put them on, or have them leave the club. But the vast majority of the teams are going to be terrible, made up of kids who aren't skilled enough to make the top team in the club, and yet the club still is happy for them to pay top dollar.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

One of the biggest issues with soccer in the U.S. is that the talent funnel is broken. Ideally, the best players would move into MLSN and ECNL clubs, the next tier into MLSN Academy/ECRL/NPL teams, and so on down the pyramid. In reality, costs, geography, uninformed parents, and clubs unwilling to move players up or down based on performance have created very unbalanced teams and leagues.

I have a child playing in an MLSN Academy (initially called MLSN2), and the disparity between teams has been eye-opening. On one end, you have clubs producing MLS Homegrown-level talent (e.g. Laguna United), while on the other, some teams would likely be no more than above-average Flight 2 sides.

Would be interested to get opinions on how this could be mitigated.

This is pretty consistent across most letter leagues. Unfortunately with how US youth soccer is more a business model than a development model and how fragmented the landscape is I don't see any viable solutions.

 

[zanian]

Fixing it would require the leagues to think about the greater good and not create even more nonsense "elite leagues." This country is not serious about making our soccer better. We have no real plan except money grabs. A true soccer pyramid, promotion/relegation, less travel-based clubs, more soccer "culture" would all help.

Right now with all the diffused talent, often the best players don't play against the best players, which harms development.

There is a team in my daughter's league (NPL) that should play in a better league like ECNL but they are too small of a club to field teams in each age year. This is monopoly behavior. (Kind of like the MLS!)

 

[Grace T.]

Fixing it would require the leagues to think about the greater good and not create even more nonsense "elite leagues." This country is not serious about making our soccer better. We have no real plan except money grabs. A true soccer pyramid, promotion/relegation, less travel-based clubs, more soccer "culture" would all help.

Right now with all the diffused talent, often the best players don't play against the best players, which harms development.

There is a team in my daughter's league (NPL) that should play in a better league like ECNL but they are too small of a club to field teams in each age year. This is monopoly behavior. (Kind of like the MLS!)

What you are describing is a potential competition law problem with small clubs being locked out of the letter leagues. Because they are locked out of the letter leagues, they can't recruit better players, so they can't field multiple great team in each age year. But because they can't do that, they in turn are further locked out of the letter leagues. Rinse repeat. The valley used to be filled with really great teams in Coast that came from random locations, but those clubs are all pretty much gone now.

I disagree however that promotion/relegation would fix things. It can't operate as a meritocracy unless clubs are required to carry the players that brung them to the promotion and players are locked into the clubs they sign up for...otherwise you are just rewarding and promoting clubs based on recruitment skills, not achievement....you'd get a lot more of the behavior that SoCal League allegedly punished SoCal Elite for. It also encourages the development short cuts we've talked about a.n. here on these forums. A true system would work more like some of the continental European systems where kids are assigned on their team based on their level, a handful of players get recruited onto the pro track (for which they have to drop out of the academic and arts tracks) and get a full ride, everyone else plays rec, no athletic admissions to colleges (you spin off football and basketball so they stand independently as semi pro leagues).

 

[Grace T.]

One of the biggest issues with soccer in the U.S. is that the talent funnel is broken. Ideally, the best players would move into MLSN and ECNL clubs, the next tier into MLSN Academy/ECRL/NPL teams, and so on down the pyramid. In reality, costs, geography, uninformed parents, and clubs unwilling to move players up or down based on performance have created very unbalanced teams and leagues.

I have a child playing in an MLSN Academy (initially called MLSN2), and the disparity between teams has been eye-opening. On one end, you have clubs producing MLS Homegrown-level talent (e.g. Laguna United), while on the other, some teams would likely be no more than above-average Flight 2 sides.

Would be interested to get opinions on how this could be mitigated.

Well remember too that the main reason MLS2 got launched on the east coast was because the MLSN teams are carrying sometimes 30 players and 3 GKs, and not all of them can dress let alone get any playing time. Players without sufficient skill or dedication are riding the bench on MLSN teams because the clubs are reluctant to send them down (they won't go...they'll just leave for another club...which means they'll lose $$$$) but also can't play them. So the clubs wanted more flexibility to be able to send down players or bring them up for trials. So the results in the 2nd league will be all over the place depending on who gets down from the 1st team and some teams like Laguna or Riverside might be able to dominate particular years because their best players (if they have them) will be on the 2nd tier team since there isn't a first tier option (if they don't have the players there's no first team which they can bring down which in particular is going to be a problem with clubs with growing pains like the Bulls, LAFC, Juventus for quite a while until they can aggregate talent).

 

[sigmabody]

Would be interested to get opinions on how this could be mitigated.

I have one thought on how this could at least be partially mitigated (not a complete plan or anything, but an observation):

We had had occasion to try out with a few different teams over the years (mostly to see what the experience was). It is interesting to get an evaluation of my kid in that context; that is, where the coaches have no preconceived notions of skills, and/or history of observation, and you can get a fresh perspective. This is the same thing which is done for "external" programs to some extent (eg: scouting for "national team prospect" players, or whatever that program is called).

I think it's really hard to get a sense of where your child is at within the same club. There are so many different motivating factors for how and when players are moved up (and almost never down), and not all of those have to do with ability. Notwithstanding cost and bias (and parental complaints), it would be beneficial to get more independent evaluations of players, particularly as they get to mid-youth age (ie: 13+), and have pathways to move good players up (either within the same club, across clubs, or otherwise).

The money aspect is a big one, though. Making an efficient and effective pipeline to develop players nationally is somewhat in conflict with club motivations, to keep good players within the clubs for their benefit (financially and prestige-wise). That would be something which would need to be driven at the national level, if it was a priority (which it currently does not appear to be).

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

In Northern California, it's a glorified NPL but trying to market it as something elite. My favorite part is how the majority of clubs social media marketing(especially those who don't have full MLS status), they never mention MLS 2, only MLS Next. Do your homework parents

I've seen on that Instagram. "We've got MLS Next!" but it's actually MLS Next 2 and there's no mention of it on the marketing post...

Sort of like when they win flight 4 of state cup or tournament and say "State Cup Champions!" or "Surf Cup Champions!" with no mention of what flight they played in...

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

It's been our experience locally that MLSN clubs tend to ignore the exclusivity rules, and have kids play on outside non-MLSN teams all the time, "futures" or not. The other leagues, even when called on it, seem to be happy allowing them to break their own rules - believing that having them play in the secondary league is a net win.

I know a kid who plays on an ECNL tam and an MSLN team... so yea happens...

And lotta kids are still playing their Sunday leagues on top of MLSN anyway...