T 2.0

watfly said:
I don't think its for immediate votes (since its not the easiest thing to register a critical mass of illegals*), but its 100% for building more influence from the left side of the aisle. Just look at the recent LA riots.

I love how whatithink plays dumb and says IDK and husker says because Trump says it. They claim its not for votes, but can't even remotely articulate another reason. Talk about turning a blind eye.

FYI, most of the legal immigrants I know lean right.

*illegals aren't coming here to vote and most are going to be reluctant to give information to the government if they're here illegally.
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Sounds like you aren’t having a dispute with yourself there. I hope you get it worked out.
 
Q sauce. The military set the trap, and the bandits did what bandits do, which is to cheat, kill, lie, steal and start wars to make money. Good luck everyone.
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watfly said:
I don't think its for immediate votes (since its not the easiest thing to register a critical mass of illegals*), but its 100% for building more influence from the left side of the aisle. Just look at the recent LA riots.

I love how whatithink plays dumb and says IDK and husker says because Trump says it. They claim its not for votes, but can't even remotely articulate another reason. Talk about turning a blind eye.

FYI, most of the legal immigrants I know lean right.

*illegals aren't coming here to vote and most are going to be reluctant to give information to the government if they're here illegally.
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I say IDK, because I don't. I can speculate that maybe someone thought it would play well with the Hispanic voters and would lock that demographic in "for a generation", but that's speculation on my behalf.

That speculation doesn't even make sense to me, as the illegals are in competition with a portion of the legals in that demographic.

So I'm back to IDK, it made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me now.

Stating that it was done for votes from illegals is clearly BS.
 
whatithink said:
I say IDK, because I don't. I can speculate that maybe someone thought it would play well with the Hispanic voters and would lock that demographic in "for a generation", but that's speculation on my behalf.

That speculation doesn't even make sense to me, as the illegals are in competition with a portion of the legals in that demographic.

So I'm back to IDK, it made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me now.

Stating that it was done for votes from illegals is clearly BS.
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Wrong again Grace
 
Wake up people. Stop being arrogant and prideful. Humility comes before honor and pride comes before the fall. Many of you look stupid today and you got degrees from Big U. I am certain God is real. I am certain Satan is real. I am certain they & them killed Jesus. I am certain you got poisoned. I am certain there is a path to a healthy body, mind and soul. All you have to do is eat crow and eat it publicly. Admit you were wrong, and I am certain you will feel better inside. Good luck everyone. I love you!

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watfly said:
Give Israel bunker busting bombs and let them take care of it. I'd be reluctant to get in any deeper than that. It may be unavoidable if Iran executes a serious attack against one of our bases in the Middle East.

I could be totally wrong, but Israel likely won't stop until Iran's nuclear capabilities are completely eliminated which could lead to a long drawn out conflict. It sounds like Israel doesn't have the deep penetrating weapons to wipe out the one nuclear facility, so they'd need our help with bunker busters.

America is for all intents and purposes already in it. I have to believe we have shared considerable intel with Israel, if not strategy.
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From what I can tell, we currently have plausible deniability from involvement, which we should keep. If we give Israel bunker busters, then we have certainly painted a target (bigger than now) on every US base in the Middle East. We have also removed any credibility as honest brokers in any negotiations with Iran.

Netanyahu has been wanting to go after Iran for decades. He has said they are "this close" to nuclear bombs for the same time period. He has wanted to drag the US into a war with Iran, just like he did everything he could to drag us into the war with Iraq, including Congressional testimony about how awesome the ME would be post-Saddam.

  • Both Gabbard, in March, and the IAEA stated that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons. There were concerns from the IAEA about some access.
  • Iran has had the technical ability to build nukes for decades. That genie is well out of the bottle. It hasn't done so. You can't bomb that knowledge away. Killing 9 nuclear scientists has zero impact either, they have hundreds in their nuclear program.
  • Destroying their existing facilities may set them back a couple of years at best, what then?
  • Assuming no regime change, the likeliest reaction from Iran would be that they need nukes, maybe just buy them from Pakistan or get the uranium there.
 
whatithink said:
I say IDK, because I don't. I can speculate that maybe someone thought it would play well with the Hispanic voters and would lock that demographic in "for a generation", but that's speculation on my behalf.

That speculation doesn't even make sense to me, as the illegals are in competition with a portion of the legals in that demographic.

So I'm back to IDK, it made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me now.

Stating that it was done for votes from illegals is clearly BS.
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It's not BS. It's the logical assumption. Dems are losing black and brown votes and are known as being the party of "empathy". Empathy as in, come here and we'll give you money. We'll give you a driver's license. We'll give you food stamps. We'll give you healthcare. And yes, those that came here legally aren't going to support that shit. They work too hard. For the last several years, the dems have gone soft on crime and soft on the border. Flaccid as fuck. Oh, and by the way, they're pushing the, "it's racist to ask for I.D. when someone votes." They're now letting illegal aliens... and that's EXACTLY what they are, vote in local elections. Psshh... GTFOH.

Now you sound like Biden. "what border crisis? there's no border crisis. oh shit, Trump won't let us solve the border crisis."

Are you kidding me?
 
whatithink said:
I say IDK, because I don't. I can speculate that maybe someone thought it would play well with the Hispanic voters and would lock that demographic in "for a generation", but that's speculation on my behalf.

That speculation doesn't even make sense to me, as the illegals are in competition with a portion of the legals in that demographic.

So I'm back to IDK, it made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me now.

Stating that it was done for votes from illegals is clearly BS.
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Like fly said most Hispanic people I know are deeply conservative. Old school conservative, family, religion, community, country, not maga for the most part, but some want to be as American as they can and if they are surrounded by maga . . .
 
Slobodan said:
It's not BS. It's the logical assumption. Dems are losing black and brown votes and are known as being the party of "empathy". Empathy as in, come here and we'll give you money. We'll give you a driver's license. We'll give you food stamps. We'll give you healthcare. And yes, those that came here legally aren't going to support that shit. They work too hard. For the last several years, the dems have gone soft on crime and soft on the border. Flaccid as fuck. Oh, and by the way, they're pushing the, "it's racist to ask for I.D. when someone votes." They're now letting illegal aliens... and that's EXACTLY what they are, vote in local elections. Psshh... GTFOH.

Now you sound like Biden. "what border crisis? there's no border crisis. oh shit, Trump won't let us solve the border crisis."

Are you kidding me?
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Illegal immigrants can't vote anywhere in the US in any election, local, state or federal. Legal immigrants, non-citizens, can vote in some local elections, but cannot vote in any Federal elections.

I've said in B&W that Biden fucked up the border, why the comprehension issue?

Your assertion that illegals are voting is BS. Your rationale is hyperbolic blah blah.
 
whatithink said:
From what I can tell, we currently have plausible deniability from involvement, which we should keep. If we give Israel bunker busters, then we have certainly painted a target (bigger than now) on every US base in the Middle East. We have also removed any credibility as honest brokers in any negotiations with Iran.

Netanyahu has been wanting to go after Iran for decades. He has said they are "this close" to nuclear bombs for the same time period. He has wanted to drag the US into a war with Iran, just like he did everything he could to drag us into the war with Iraq, including Congressional testimony about how awesome the ME would be post-Saddam.

  • Both Gabbard, in March, and the IAEA stated that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons. There were concerns from the IAEA about some access.
  • Iran has had the technical ability to build nukes for decades. That genie is well out of the bottle. It hasn't done so. You can't bomb that knowledge away. Killing 9 nuclear scientists has zero impact either, they have hundreds in their nuclear program.
  • Destroying their existing facilities may set them back a couple of years at best, what then?
  • Assuming no regime change, the likeliest reaction from Iran would be that they need nukes, maybe just buy them from Pakistan or get the uranium there.
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Not sure if Tulsi has any credibility with anyone right now.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Not sure if Tulsi has any credibility with anyone right now.
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Sure, but her testimony to Congress is consistent with all other US intelligence statements and the IAEA; she didn't just wing it you know.

BTW, there is no guarantee that even our bunker busters can penetrate Fordow, which is buried deep in a mountain.

The only way of guaranteeing the destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities is boots on the ground. Iran is 4 times larger than Iraq, with double the population. Given how awesome Iraq went and how we substantiated the WMD that they had, why would we not go all in and invade Iran too? What could possibly go wrong?
 
whatithink said:
Illegal immigrants can't vote anywhere in the US in any election, local, state or federal. Legal immigrants, non-citizens, can vote in some local elections, but cannot vote in any Federal elections.

I've said in B&W that Biden fucked up the border, why the comprehension issue?

Your assertion that illegals are voting is BS. Your rationale is hyperbolic blah blah.
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Maybe I gave you too much credit. Libtards saying it's racist to require ID, when voting, is Part 1 of the scam. You deliberately ignoring that makes me laugh. Just like you ignored all the freebies we taxpayers are providing them. Please don't insult me and suggest illegals are all paying taxes, either. And let's not pretend, at the very same time, dems aren't writing legislation to let illegal aliens vote. The evidence of that is all over the place. I never said they were successful. Part 2 of the plan.

The dems are know their existing voter base is leaving. And yes, I know you said Biden fucked up the border. Truth is, if you're a democrat, he didn't fuck up the border. He just failed to execute the plan in time. He did what he set out to do and ran out of time.

Your denial is embarrassing as to WHY he opened the borders. Do you think he just likes buying garlic at lower prices? What could POSSIBLY be another motivation for doing what he did? Take a guess for us.
 
whatithink said:
From what I can tell, we currently have plausible deniability from involvement, which we should keep. If we give Israel bunker busters, then we have certainly painted a target (bigger than now) on every US base in the Middle East. We have also removed any credibility as honest brokers in any negotiations with Iran.

Netanyahu has been wanting to go after Iran for decades. He has said they are "this close" to nuclear bombs for the same time period. He has wanted to drag the US into a war with Iran, just like he did everything he could to drag us into the war with Iraq, including Congressional testimony about how awesome the ME would be post-Saddam.

  • Both Gabbard, in March, and the IAEA stated that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons. There were concerns from the IAEA about some access.
  • Iran has had the technical ability to build nukes for decades. That genie is well out of the bottle. It hasn't done so. You can't bomb that knowledge away. Killing 9 nuclear scientists has zero impact either, they have hundreds in their nuclear program.
  • Destroying their existing facilities may set them back a couple of years at best, what then?
  • Assuming no regime change, the likeliest reaction from Iran would be that they need nukes, maybe just buy them from Pakistan or get the uranium there.
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Like I said a number of posts ago, I hope Israel knows what it is doing and this isn't a WMD situation.

The only thing I would quibble with, is that Iran doesn't need an excuse to attack our bases, it has done so consistently without provocation. I'm not convinced we have plausible deniability at this point.
 
Slobodan said:
Maybe I gave you too much credit. Libtards saying it's racist to require ID, when voting, is Part 1 of the scam. You deliberately ignoring that makes me laugh. Just like you ignored all the freebies we taxpayers are providing them. Please don't insult me and suggest illegals are all paying taxes, either. And let's not pretend, at the very same time, dems aren't writing legislation to let illegal aliens vote. The evidence of that is all over the place. I never said they were successful. Part 2 of the plan.

The dems are know their existing voter base is leaving. And yes, I know you said Biden fucked up the border. Truth is, if you're a democrat, he didn't fuck up the border. He just failed to execute the plan in time. He did what he set out to do and ran out of time.

Your denial is embarrassing as to WHY he opened the borders. Do you think he just likes buying garlic at lower prices? What could POSSIBLY be another motivation for doing what he did? Take a guess for us.
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And Democrat's have a vested interest in keeping illegals, illegal. Once they become legal immigrants the Dem's lose a certain level of control over the individual. Proof of wanting to keep them illegal, are sanctuary cities, and states, and the manner in which Dem's go out of their way to protect illegals, even criminal ones.

On a side note, look how Dem's lost their shit when Abbott tried to secure the Texas border. They screamed that immigration is a Federal not state issue. Meanwhile, they enjoy their sanctuary cities where local law enforcement is prohibited from cooperating with federal law enforcement. Hypocrisy is not just a Dem issue, but damn why do they make it so obvious? (see Musk for another current example).
 
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