Building from the Back

[SuperSoccerStar]

A non-directed kick is what you are going to get though if everyone pushes up (other than on a fast distribution before the other side is ready) because everyone is going to be marked and everyone is going to bunched near the center circle.

The tension is that unless the coach removes the option, teams will tend to revert back to a non-directed kick just to relieve the pressure (since everyone gets punished by shame or getting yelled at for a goal against and people will always choose pain avoidance over a lower reward such as the off chance of starting a breakaway).

I'll share a story. My kid was on a letter league team where he split time with another GK. The other goalkeeper could not play with his feet. The few times he tried to play high and in support of the back he caused a couple disasters so he had a tendency to sit on the line, boot the ball on goalkicks and put the team into a defensive low block. My son was trained in the sweeper keeper style and is constantly playing high which pushes the CBS out of any sort of position to low block. Oil and water. The coach's preference was to play in my son's style. However, mid season the club lost it's center backs and had to put the alternates into first string. The alternates had a very hard time playing the coach's style and would constantly lose the ball leading to a counter attack. The coach was confident that they would get there, but the parents rebelled and demanded to know why he wasn't playing the game safer. The players also preferred the other goalkeeper because it meant they didn't have to take responsibility (I swear my kid's Latino league cbs at least want the ball) because the parents would go off on them if they gave up the ball. Got so bad the parents approached the coach demanding he play the other GK because it just leads to fewer chances against. It didn't wind up turning around the team's fortunes, but they did give up fewer goals against.

wow! your parents dictated players positions, playtime and play style? That's crazy

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

The best thing that ever happened for my daughter was a 3 year period of half of each practice with variations of Rondo. She is a goalkeeper, developed great skills with her feet, and uses that in college currently. If you can practice 8 hours a week and get 2 hours of Rondo the players on the team are going to do well.

the good teams treat their GK's as a field player at all team trainings. The only time they would be a goalie is if there was a scrimmage during training or shooting drill when a goalie was needed but they for sure should be treated as an equal player for all other drills

 

[Grace T.]

the good teams treat their GK's as a field player at all team trainings. The only time they would be a goalie is if there was a scrimmage during training or shooting drill when a goalie was needed but they for sure should be treated as an equal player for all other drills

You see I disagree with this, at least after the early ages once letter league begins. One of the big problems with GK training in the US right now is that the GKs aren't being trained in specific scenariors for which teammates need to be present, and then when mistakes happen everyone yells at them: "why didn't you stop that". The mechanics for a GK building short out of the back (see the Aiden Feuer video I posted), corners, crosses, 1v1s all need to be specifically trained and NOT in a scrimmage situation where instructions is harder to give. The long goalkick itself is problematic and needs to be specifically trained with all field players present (regardless if the GK or the big legged defender is taking it) but all too often the default is just kick it as hard and high as you can, which is NOT correct either. The hardest thing is teaching the initiating player what they need to initiate, and whether short or long.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

You see I disagree with this, at least after the early ages once letter league begins. One of the big problems with GK training in the US right now is that the GKs aren't being trained in specific scenariors for which teammates need to be present, and then when mistakes happen everyone yells at them: "why didn't you stop that". The mechanics for a GK building short out of the back (see the Aiden Feuer video I posted), corners, crosses, 1v1s all need to be specifically trained and NOT in a scrimmage situation where instructions is harder to give. The long goalkick itself is problematic and needs to be specifically trained with all field players present (regardless if the GK or the big legged defender is taking it) but all too often the default is just kick it as hard and high as you can, which is NOT correct either. The hardest thing is teaching the initiating player what they need to initiate, and whether short or long.

I guess we disagree on this one, as specifically once letter leagues begin it applies. You should be training the GK on GK specifics at the GK only trainings. If you need to train long balls then thats done at the team training during scrimmages. I don't think a specific drill on GK playing long balls is really necessary as it just relies on regular skills like the mids or forwards trapping the ball and playing it or advancing it forward. If you want to train on short kicks and the defense bringing the ball out of the back then yeah thats a drill you do at team trainings. Doing a drill specifically for a goal keeper to make long balls during a team training is a waste of time. Oh and in that video you posted and the first couple clips the left mid is absolute trash. Advance the ball my guy stop going backwards so quickly.

 

[Slobodan]

A player trained to play posession from a young age can switch to playing direct whenever they want.

A direct player that's never really played possession can only play direct.

This is why it's important to teach young players how to play out of the back. It's just another skill that will let you be better that others who never learned.

The best youth teams I've ever seen play switch from possession to direct depending on how the defenders play them.

Something else about playing from the back... you learn to make quick decisions under pressure and play with your head up. Something you also pick up from playing a lot of futsal. And to your point, there's a place for direct play. Nothing better for stretching a defense and keeping that high press honest, but playing out of the back draws the opponent in and frees up more space to do your thing up field. It's very important.

 

[Grace T.]

I guess we disagree on this one, as specifically once letter leagues begin it applies. You should be training the GK on GK specifics at the GK only trainings. If you need to train long balls then thats done at the team training during scrimmages. I don't think a specific drill on GK playing long balls is really necessary as it just relies on regular skills like the mids or forwards trapping the ball and playing it or advancing it forward. If you want to train on short kicks and the defense bringing the ball out of the back then yeah thats a drill you do at team trainings. Doing a drill specifically for a goal keeper to make long balls during a team training is a waste of time. Oh and in that video you posted and the first couple clips the left mid is absolute trash. Advance the ball my guy stop going backwards so quickly.

The problem with the GK only trainings are there are usually too few GKs there to have a structural or tactical training...because you can't for example have a 12 year old or the third string alternate 16 yr old keeper training with the first string MLSN 16 yr old keeper. More over, there are specific placements, like on corners and DFKs that need to be worked on with the team and for which the coach will have individual preferences (which may vary team to team and few coaches communicate to the GK trainer). Moreover, there's also the communication that needs to be worked on in the scenarios between defenders and Gks (the thing that annoyed me most at the 12-14 level was the GK yelling "keeper" and the defender goes ahead and kicks or heads it)

The long ball is much more complicated than just the mechanics of kicking it. I agree GK training is the time to train the mechanics (though I do note rarely have I ever seen a club give the GK trainer the space to actually practice it). But there's quite a bit that goes into the tactics, as well as in the decision making to go short or long. Again if you don't train it, don't be surprised if it doesn't work. This is absolutely not something the GK trainer can do. The GK trainer can't tell the GK to place it in an aerial mismatch, or into space, or when to go short or long....that's on the coach.

I'm really opposed to the training I went through my licenses with CalSouth about self discovery and learning through scrimmage. Specific scenarios on both the attack and defense require specific scenarios. While a short sided scrimmage is a VITAL part of the training, it's not the end all be all and if you are relying on just that and the GK training to train your build out, you doing it wrong.

The remark about the mid is funny. Those are academy players.

 

[Slobodan]

Yes but again the limiting factor is the GK. Many teams on the boys side may not give them the goalkicks until U15. Even when you do it give to them, there's no training as to when they should switch long/short and how to make that judgment. The only time my son ever got any such training was when he was the alternate GK on the club's adult UPSL team.



Ooooff...this is my No. 1 pet peeve. So many coaches don't know how to train the rondo or are just lazy. They just do the big circle that gives players on a certain number of touches on the ball. There are so many better ones. The 4 man triangle is a much more excellent way to teach possession in close spaces. The 4v4 rectangle with GKS or backs on both ends is also fantastic. I personally love this one the Galaxy use with the center circle from Aiden Feuer's distribution highlights which teach GKs how to break the line. I want to scream every time I see a coach set up a big circle rondo with 1 ball.

This is again a GK limitation. Even when you hand the goalkicks over to big legged defenders they are often just kicking it with no rhyme nor reason. It takes quite a bit of practice, not to mention field space (how many teams have more than a 1/2 field) to work on. Technically the Gks need to be able to hit with precision which only happens at the higher levels around u16 for the boys. And even on the higher teams, there are tons of alternates that don't seem to be able to do it.

Every goal kick is about 50/50 at best. What I teach the youngers I work with, is to make sure and look both left, right AND center as you prepare to distribute. It's unbelievable how many young keepers get into a rhythmic pattern and don't utilize 50-75% of the field. Even knowing when to take a few extra seconds so your defenders get a chance to breathe and reset. Watching them go up to the 18 line and punt down the middle, over and over and over again, makes me want to pour acid into my eyes.

 

[Slobodan]

You see I disagree with this, at least after the early ages once letter league begins. One of the big problems with GK training in the US right now is that the GKs aren't being trained in specific scenariors for which teammates need to be present, and then when mistakes happen everyone yells at them: "why didn't you stop that". The mechanics for a GK building short out of the back (see the Aiden Feuer video I posted), corners, crosses, 1v1s all need to be specifically trained and NOT in a scrimmage situation where instructions is harder to give. The long goalkick itself is problematic and needs to be specifically trained with all field players present (regardless if the GK or the big legged defender is taking it) but all too often the default is just kick it as hard and high as you can, which is NOT correct either. The hardest thing is teaching the initiating player what they need to initiate, and whether short or long.

I used to watch goalkeeper trainings and it's 'face a shot, next man up'. Didn't correct the positioning, didn't correct the diving technique, kids landing on their elbows, etc. I hope not every club does it that way... and this was a USL level pro goalkeeper doing the training. Not 30 seconds spent on footwork or distribution.