Vaccine

Soccermaverick said:
On Twitter… My 12-year-old had appendicitis. The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients and we had to wait 6+ hours. While waiting, his appendix ruptured and had to spend 5 days in hospital; just got hmo bill of $5000. So yeah, your decision to not vaccinate does affect others.

Sounds like not getting vaccinated is causing others pain. But the antiVax will say he didn’t die did he
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Tyrant Cowards

But one distinction between children and adults has, until now, held tight: adults, collectively, are supposed to protect children, and not the other way around. Sadly, coronavirus seems to have put paid even to this most basic moral certainty. It has become acceptable for adults to demand that children act to protect them. This shameful state of affairs turns traditional moral values on their head.

The latest example of this role reversal can be seen in the pressure to vaccinate healthy children against Covid despite almost complete agreement that the vaccine is of little medical benefit to them. As vaccinated children will still be able to transmit the virus, the sole purpose of the proposed roll-out seems to be to make teenagers provide psychological reassurance to fretful adults.
 
Aussies have been told to avoid talking to their neighbours and to wear a mask when driving alone.

Now let’s look at sunny Queensland. In January, the state’s health authorities made it compulsory to wear a mask while driving alone. Health minister Yvette D’Ath explained the reasoning as follows: ‘We want clear, concise instructions for everyone to follow… So if you put on your mask as soon as you leave the front door – no questions, no exceptions – then that’s much easier to follow.’ This certainly reveals the health authorities’ low view of people’s intelligence. If they don’t trust Queenslanders to operate a mask, why trust Queenslanders to operate a car?

Australia’s most populous state, New South Wales, is not immune to such absurdity, either. In July, chief health officer Dr Kerry Chant provided the ultimate excuse, in the name of tackling Covid, for ignoring people you don’t want to talk to: ‘If you run into your nextdoor neighbour, in the shopping centre, at Coles or Aldi or any other grocery shop, don’t start up a conversation.’

Coo Coo down under....in here too.
 
Desert Hound said:
What point do you find off the mark?

His main point is we don't know what the long term affects of the vaccines are and as such they should not be mandated on people with little to no risk.

That is an entirely reasonable approach.

For those in the very high risk category he advocates them using the vaccine since the benefits outweigh long term risks.

Another entirely reasonable approach.

What part do you find objectionable?
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Who is "this guy" you are relying on for your "expert" information? Where did you get this nonsense? You just blew up this thread quoting what appears to be a manifesto from an unidentified person who relies on a pathologist who has been debunked and is a crazy horse paste advocate. There is nothing legitimate in the manifesto or horse paste guy's theories that support the notion that any potential long term risks of getting vaccinated outweigh the potential long term risks of not getting vaccinated.
 
GoldenGate said:
Oh and Dr. Cole is a kook, which means "this guy" is also. Dr. Cole, despite being a pathologist, claims to be a horse paste expert and believes we should all be eating it to fight Covid, but that we should not use vaccines because there hasn't been enough research to ensure they are safe. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/v...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/

Where did you get this drivel? Can any of you anti-vaxxers explain why you believe horse paste is perfectly acceptable to take, but not a vaccine? Maybe the highly rational crush guy can explain this to the rest of us.
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Factcheck.org? Speaking of drivel.
 
espola said:
It's not just "this guy". DH has a history of posting nonsense here. This article, in fact, would be better received here if DH had created a new sockpuppet (or, if he has one already, used that) since it would not have to overcome the baggage of DH's posting history.
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No doubt he's considered your posting history.
 
GoldenGate said:
Who is "this guy" you are relying on for your "expert" information? Where did you get this nonsense? You just blew up this thread quoting what appears to be a manifesto from an unidentified person who relies on a pathologist who has been debunked and is a crazy horse paste advocate. There is nothing legitimate in the manifesto or horse paste guy's theories that support the notion that any potential long term risks of getting vaccinated outweigh the potential long term risks of not getting vaccinated.
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I note you conveniently ignore the points.

1) We do not know if there are any long terms issues with the vaccines. This statement is 100% correct. We started vaxxing people less than a year ago.
2) The next point was if we do not know long term affects of the vaccines, maybe we should not rush to mandate them. That is an entirely rational point
3) The other point made was that some people are in a high risk group. They should get vaxxed because of their risk factors. That is an entirely rational point.

Those are the 3 main points the person was talking about.

Which ones do you find offensive? Anti vax? Or anti science? And why?
 
Kicker4Life said:
Twitter is a great source for information. Not saying it isn’t true, but there are some questionable details in that story. First, how did the poster know they where unvax’d, was it by their scarlet letter?
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Most hospitals are happy to explain that 90-100 percent of their covid ICU patients are not vaccinated. The doctors are tired of it, too.

If you look at the ICU stats, it’s pretty clear that the crush of unvaccinated covid patients is creating health care shortages for other patients.

You can deny it, but that doesn‘t make it any less true.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Tyrant Cowards

But one distinction between children and adults has, until now, held tight: adults, collectively, are supposed to protect children, and not the other way around. Sadly, coronavirus seems to have put paid even to this most basic moral certainty. It has become acceptable for adults to demand that children act to protect them. This shameful state of affairs turns traditional moral values on their head.

The latest example of this role reversal can be seen in the pressure to vaccinate healthy children against Covid despite almost complete agreement that the vaccine is of little medical benefit to them. As vaccinated children will still be able to transmit the virus, the sole purpose of the proposed roll-out seems to be to make teenagers provide psychological reassurance to fretful adults.
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Great. We agree the responsibility lies with the adults. You are an adult. Have you done your part and gotten vaccinated yet?
 
dad4 said:
Great. We agree the responsibility lies with the adults. You are an adult. Have you done your part and gotten vaccinated yet?
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Hasn't Bruddah had it already?

One of the great flaws here that has undermined a lot of confidence in the process is the authorities haven't addressed natural immunity at all, and have done very little to study the impact on the epidemic. How long does natural immunity last? How robust is it? Does having a prior infection necessitate two vaccinations or will a booster of 1 effectively do? There's nothing scientific in treating those that have natural immunity the same as those that have no infection....it's just guessing (and not even guessing in line with what we know about other infections).

But yes, absolutely, especially if you aren't 100% certain you've had it, get vaccinated.
 
Desert Hound said:
What point do you find off the mark?

His main point is we don't know what the long term affects of the vaccines are and as such they should not be mandated on people with little to no risk.

That is an entirely reasonable approach.

For those in the very high risk category he advocates them using the vaccine since the benefits outweigh long term risks.

Another entirely reasonable approach.

What part do you find objectionable?
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So who is this mystery doctor? Where did you get this "expert" medical opinion? It is seeming more and more obvious that you were duped by someone on the Internet because he claimed to be a veteran and told you something you want to hear.
 
GoldenGate said:
So who is this mystery doctor? Where did you get this "expert" medical opinion? It is seeming more and more obvious that you were duped by someone on the Internet because he claimed to be a veteran and told you something you want to hear.
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Why don't you address the points?

I suspect it is because the points he makes are rational.

Do you disagree with the fact that we do not know if there are any long term negative affects of the vaccines?

And if we do not know if there are any long term affects, should we be mandating vaccines to individuals who have little to no risk of the disease itself? That is a legit/rational question.

The data shows that the vast majority of the people have very little risk to covid.

And by the way the author also thinks that high risk people SHOULD take the vaccine.

What points specifically do you disagree with? And why?
 
dad4 said:
Most hospitals are happy to explain that 90-100 percent of their covid ICU patients are not vaccinated. The doctors are tired of it, too.

If you look at the ICU stats, it’s pretty clear that the crush of unvaccinated covid patients is creating health care shortages for other patients.

You can deny it, but that doesn‘t make it any less true.
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Hopefully they are happy enough to explain that there has been a 1 percent decrease in COVID deaths, yoy while cases have increased by 100K yoy too. No doubt vaccines had a lot of immune systems to hitch hike on this year so they could prop up their case for vaccine efficacy.
 
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