USWNT

Discussion in 'WNT/MNT/World Cup/Int'l Soccer' started by soccerobserver, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. oh canada

    oh canada SILVER ELITE

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    NWSL player salaries are capped at a maximum of $46K. Just let that digest a bit. Most know that the average salary is $16K, but do we really want to encourage our daughters to go work in an industry that caps their worth at any amount (but especially at a figure that low)? Collective bargaining at its finest. When they say they want to spend every free hour practicing soccer, training with their team 4x/week and "playing professional soccer," ask them how much $$ they think most players make. That might change their plans. Is it crushing dreams or being a responsible parent to provide a dose of reality?
     
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  2. espola

    espola DA

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    How much do players in USL make?
     
  3. Dubs

    Dubs SILVER ELITE

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    They can chase that dream as long as they get that degree first!!
     
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  4. Kicker4Life

    Kicker4Life

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    I also know many who have turned their years of experience in the game into profitable businesses that are still tied to the game.
     
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  5. MakeAPlay

    MakeAPlay DA

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    Plan “B” should always be Plan “A.” For all but those 1-3 per birth year in the US there is very little money in domestic soccer for professional players and an injury can end it all in an instant!
     
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  6. MWN

    MWN PREMIER

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    The answer is no we don't want our daughters working in an industry that doesn't pay a living wage ... which is why women's professional soccer will never be a viable as a business in its current form and why we should encourage our daughters and our sons to focus on their college degrees as their first, second and third choices. Articles like this Forbes Article, understand the problem but the author's are either too blind to the reason or frightened of backlash to call it out.

    The reality is that watching sports and attending games is "entertainment." These athletes (men and women) are not providing anything of value to society, except for entertainment. They are on the same level as comedians, singers, jugglers, magicians, actors and yes ... even strippers. Athletes are entertainers and the product they provide is entertainment. The consumer has limited entertainment time and dollars and consumes based on the quality of the product.

    To this end, the product of professional women's soccer is substandard compared to professional men's soccer because its much slower and the athletes as a whole demonstrate less skill. There are far fewer people willing to spend their entertainment dollars and time watching players that are less skilled and much slower, which is why the USL2 v. the MLS v. the Premiere league have wildly different values and salaries. When the average Flight 1/Gold/Premiere Boys U16 team can easily destroy every NWSL team there shouldn't be any doubt as to why the NWSL will never succeed as an entertainment vehicle. (Note, it was the practice of the USWNT to play DA U14 Boys teams to train, which often handily beat the USWNT and prior to the DA, the USWNT played BU14 ODP squads and often lost by large margins)

    Note, my comments are solely limited to the NWSL, WNBA, WNHL, and the other women's professional sports leagues. Once we introduce the "national" team concept, consumers ignore the quality of the product and consume the entertainment on grounds related to "patriotism" and "national pride." For this reason, millions will watch Olympic Curling but not curling in general.
     
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  7. LASTMAN14

    LASTMAN14

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    You have written a few posts regarding women's soccer. What do you really think about women's soccer? Per this example and others you say things that I find questionable. Please no data, articles or examples. Just a real response.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  8. MWN

    MWN PREMIER

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    I think the debate and discussion regarding professional women's soccer (and basketball and hockey and football and pick your team sport) in the US entirely misses the economic realities to the point that I'm totally frustrated with the proponent's lack of intelligence.

    The debate is focused on equal pay and equality issues, but as a business, the model is flawed. Mind you, I have looked hard at USL and USL 2 deals and have come to the same conclusion ... the businesses are not viable. You simply cannot have 8

    Women's soccer at the amateur level is a resounding success. Title IX has benefited women's soccer to the point that 20,000+ girls are able to subsidize their college education playing a sport they love. That is great for these girls, but make no mistake that if college's were not required to offer an equal number of scholarships to girls pursuant to Title IX, the scholarships would dry up for every non-money sport out there.

    The NWSL as a league is simply not viable given the economics of operating the league. Only two or three clubs actually turn a profit (Portland being the main one). If the league is to be viabile then it needs to be operated as a semi-pro league (which it is) and its operations subsidized by MLS teams (only 3 or 4 do), and the players need to appreciate the reality of playing for an insolvent business with little hope of becoming solvent.

    Alternatively, US Soccer needs to tell the league we are shit canning the concept of privately held clubs/league and we are going to create US Soccer branded regional competitive teams to capitalize on the international success of the US Women's team. These clubs (initially 4) would be located in key regional areas and compete against each other and regional teams (with the idea of fundraising for US Soccer/USWNT). Change the entertainment paradigm from NWSL faux competition to fundraising for the women. This would limit the number of athletes asked to play for $18k/year, allow wages to increase and recognize the economic realities of women's soccer.

    I think pushing development for the core USWNT players is important, but doing it through the NWSL is not economically viable and will ultimately fail.
     
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  9. outside!

    outside! PREMIER

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    Luckily we have Title IX, which has done a small part to make up for nearly a century of discrimination against women's soccer and women's sports.

    https://www.historyextra.com/period...nned-women-soccer-dick-kerr-ladies-lily-parr/

    If the FA had not banned women's football, a good argument could be made that women's football would rival men's football in popularity in the UK. Since the UK started football, women's football might then be much more popular world wide.

    MWN is correct that all sports are just entertainment. MWN is not correct with the assumption that everyone views men's soccer to be more entertaining (better) than women's soccer. I personally enjoy them equally.
     
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  10. MWN

    MWN PREMIER

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    Yes, I would be incorrect if I said that. What I said was: "There are far fewer people willing to spend their entertainment dollars and time watching players that are less skilled and much slower, which is why the USL2 v. the MLS v. the Premiere league have wildly different values and salaries." You fall into the "far fewer people" bucket and good for you. We know that the NWSL averages attendance at around 5,100 souls per game and TV viewership of 124k on average so clearly people are watching and going to the games, but not in numbers that are significant to advertisers. Whereas, NBC Sports' EPL broadcasts average 457,000 viewers ... just imagine that, over 3x+ the viewers to watch teams based in England v. watching our US women play on their NWSL teams.

    I don't think the argument that women's football would be just as popular is good. I don't watch the NWSL, I don't watch the USL2 or USL or UPSL or the MLS for that matter. I watch the European Div 1 leagues and my son's soccer team(s). That is it. I will watch the USMNT and the USWNT because "'merica." I believe I also am typical of the average soccer consumer in the US.
     
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  11. LASTMAN14

    LASTMAN14

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    That's not what I asked.
     
  12. LASTMAN14

    LASTMAN14

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    Agree with your last statement.
     
  13. outside!

    outside! PREMIER

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    Why not? Did you read the article? Did you even know that happened when you were becoming a soccer fan? The FA banned women's football in 1921 because it was too popular and they saw it as a threat. From the article,

    In 1920 "Dick, Kerr’s Ladies packed 53,000 into Everton’s Goodison Park; incredibly, an estimated 14,000 were left outside the ground unable to get in."

    Perhaps your perception of the world is skewed by the fact that you did not grow up seeing women's sports and thus cannot appreciate the nuances of the women's game (that is still somewhat in its infancy when compared to the men's game that has had a century head start).
     
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  14. LASTMAN14

    LASTMAN14

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    Your bold and underlined statement when coupled with the statements that precede it paint a different picture. Isolated like this followed by the rest present something else. By itself its comes off being smug. You may be the typical consumer who does not have a daughter or a daughter that does not play soccer, but what about the families that have daughters that do play soccer. Are they not an average soccer consumer?
     
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  15. Soccerfan2

    Soccerfan2 SILVER ELITE

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    MWN you’re too intelligent to miss the outstanding points outside made. The average American soccer consumer does not spend their money on EPL teams, but rather on youth soccer in the form of club fees, travel costs and extra. The average soccer consumers are parents of youth soccer players and a steadily increasing number of those are now female, and in time you’ll see how the money follows. You’re the kind of person that should be helping lead that charge, not arguing against it. And don’t try to slide out - sexism and nothing more is what underlies the opinion that women are slower and less skilled (aka lesser). You can watch whatever you prefer to watch and your decision doesn’t warrant criticism, but you are wrong to center your opinion of the world on yourself.
     
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