Tournament Tipping Point?

timbuck

timbuck

Are we at a tipping point of tournament saturation?
Maybe it's this way every year and I haven't paid attention.

With a few exceptions, it seems that every tournament is:
1. Begging for teams to sign up a week before.
2. Has filled brackets mostly with teams from their club/sister club
3. Has moved a team up an age group to fill in.
4. Just leaves an open spot.
5. Only have 1 bracket of 4 teams. Or 2 brackets of 3 teams with top points moving to the final (When the draw you get has a big impact).
 
agree

also worrying is the coaches who sign up their teenaged teams for 2 or 3 tourneys in the same month. 6 or 7 games in a month is pushing it but some of these coaches have teenaged girls running around in 85-105 degree heat for 10-12 games within a four week period including multiple days with 2 games per day. Not healthy, especially once they're 13 or older.

But, coach wants to increase their chances of looking like a winner and holding a cheap trophy so who cares about torn knees and heat exhaustion.............
 
I'll also add that I think the fact that summer's have gotten shorter over the past few years has also hurt tournament attendance.
With school starting before labor day, there are only so many weekends for families to schedule vacation time. If half of your team is gone one week and the other half the following week, those are 2 weeks that are shouldn't be playing in a tournament.
Couple that with every club running their own tournament (5-7 tournaments within a 50 mile radius every weekend), you are bound to have some big holes to fill.
I know of at least 1 tournament that completely cancelled about 3 weeks before it was supposed to happen. I'm sure there have been more.
 
timbuck said:
Are we at a tipping point of tournament saturation?
Maybe it's this way every year and I haven't paid attention.

With a few exceptions, it seems that every tournament is:
1. Begging for teams to sign up a week before.
2. Has filled brackets mostly with teams from their club/sister club
3. Has moved a team up an age group to fill in.
4. Just leaves an open spot.
5. Only have 1 bracket of 4 teams. Or 2 brackets of 3 teams with top points moving to the final (When the draw you get has a big impact).
Click to expand...

This is mostly due to all the other leagues created recently plus raising cost of tournaments itself.
 
With playoffs going to mid July in some cases + some sort of summer break. next season starting last week of August in DA for example not a while lot of time for tournments or to get used to possible new teamates.

Youth soccer season(s) have become almost non stop, outside tournments participation has seen a decline. Some leagues now offering or holding showcases and other events, only so many dates to go around so besides the major ones they seem less attractive.
 
Let's be honest, the whole system is a mess, almost at the point now where its a complete joke.

The fix would be to consolidate leagues and tournaments and focus on quality and convenience (as in travel mainly) instead of quantity and $'s. We all know that won't happen because there's way too much money involved now.

Parents all wishing for their kids to be part of an 'elite' team in an 'elite' league. Happy to travel out of state or drive 4 hours in CA, regardless of the level their kid plays at. Playing 3 or 4 tournaments a month to keep up with the Jones' and keep the coach happy that the team is developing and progressing (and most importantly, winning).

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens. :rolleyes:
 
Btw, I probably received 50 emails over the summer (and emails are still coming in this week) with Directors almost begging to fill spots; some of them sent multiple emails almost every day for a week.

Saturation.
 
I have 2 kids (1 boy, 1 girl) that play at different clubs, different ages, & different levels... both have been in several tournaments with just 1, 4- team bracket. If multiple tournaments can only get 4 teams for an age/level, that seems like a clear indication we have too many tournaments.
 
Here's an example of a tournament that is coming up in 2 weeks. Still a few weeks until kickoff, so things could change. But registration closed.
CDA Slammers FC Toyota of Orange Classic.
186 Teams are listed.
  • 150 girls
  • 36 Boys
On the girls side, of the 150 teams 96 of them have some form of "Slammer" in their name. I don't think teams are forced to play in an affiliate tourney, but I'm sure they are encouraged.

On the girls side, there are 11 age groups and 24 total brackets. Of those 24 brackets, only 4 of them have more non-Slammers teams. 4 of them are even. 15 0f them have more Slammers than non-slammers.

I could "nerd out" a bit more, but I'll leave it for now.

Why not just grab a bunch of fields and call it "Slammers Friendly Day" and just have all of the various slammers teams play each other.


Anyone know the economics of this? If you play for a CDA Slammers team - Do you have to pay for this tournament?
 
timbuck said:
Here's an example of a tournament that is coming up in 2 weeks. Still a few weeks until kickoff, so things could change. But registration closed.
CDA Slammers FC Toyota of Orange Classic.
186 Teams are listed.
  • 150 girls
  • 36 Boys
On the girls side, of the 150 teams 96 of them have some form of "Slammer" in their name. I don't think teams are forced to play in an affiliate tourney, but I'm sure they are encouraged.

On the girls side, there are 11 age groups and 24 total brackets. Of those 24 brackets, only 4 of them have more non-Slammers teams. 4 of them are even. 15 0f them have more Slammers than non-slammers.

I could "nerd out" a bit more, but I'll leave it for now.

Why not just grab a bunch of fields and call it "Slammers Friendly Day" and just have all of the various slammers teams play each other.


Anyone know the economics of this? If you play for a CDA Slammers team - Do you have to pay for this tournament?
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, where can you see this information in advance of the schedule release? Did they post registered teams?
 
timbuck said:
Are we at a tipping point of tournament saturation?
Maybe it's this way every year and I haven't paid attention.

With a few exceptions, it seems that every tournament is:
1. Begging for teams to sign up a week before.
2. Has filled brackets mostly with teams from their club/sister club
3. Has moved a team up an age group to fill in.
4. Just leaves an open spot.
5. Only have 1 bracket of 4 teams. Or 2 brackets of 3 teams with top points moving to the final (When the draw you get has a big impact).
Click to expand...
I think you summed this up perfectly. Last weekend was a perfect example, two major tournaments going on the same weekend. College coaches drive between Del Mar and Norco to catch all the talent they can. It is truly senseless. No one is in charge, everyone is acting for themselves without any guiding principles. Think of it this way. What if someone in charge of the socal soccer scene acted on a guiding principle something like, "protecting children and the environment?" If those were the core values, there would be no way that a few things would happen:

1) driving 94 miles on a weekend to watch potential recruits between Del Mar and Norco. That is the tipping point in terms of use of resources, drain on the environment, and total burnout for those involved. It's senseless.

2) playing on turf in hot weather. I said it before, but last weekend you had games at Silverlakes in the hottest hours of the day on turf, with multiple water breaks. The organizers are responsible for the health of our kids and in their minds, water breaks are a way to get through a game. Never mind how players feel after or the next day when they're supposed to recover and hydrate and do it again. It's an absolute joke. The term Tipping Point could not be more appropriate. Tournament schedulers are responsible for towing the line and not standing up for kids. They should look at upcoming tournaments and leagues, such as Discovery League, and ask themselves the meaning of Tipping Point. Am I pushing people too far? Again, kids coming from San Diego to Norco for one game every weekend. Parents, whose time and resources are unlimited and people who run tournaments know this, log 200 miles every weekend so their kid can play a single game. In what universe is this acceptable?

3) Tipping Point can be avoided with core values that focus on the best interests of players and the world in which we all live. Parents can stand up, as has been said, and ask the coach, "why are we doing this?" Sometimes, for a college showcase, we can't. In those times, the organizers have to ask themselves, is the bottom line actually worth it? Surf cup, silverlakes, these are pure, for profit ventures with one goal in mind -- $$. If anyone had any sense, both of those tournaments would be combined in one, or at another location, such as Great Park, which is a happy medium for all in Socal. Discover league should do the same. In some fashion, someone has to step up and say what is best for the consumer, not the tournament organizers who secure funding through relationships and comittments that don't take into account what is important for the health of players. It is guaranteed that is never part of the equation, and what has led to the tipping point.
 
Would it be Cal-South that has to step in and force some changes? Because those that are collecting money never will.
They have a list of "Sanctioned Tournaments" on their website: https://calsouth.com/sanctioned-tournaments/
For the month of August, there are 53 Tournaments listed. An average of 13 tournaments PER WEEKEND!!!!! (now some of these are the same tournament but have split weekends for boys and girls).
There are 15 tournaments on Labor Day weekend alone.
 
13 per weekend x $100 fee per tourney to Cal South. (And TBH, they really should charge more than $100 -- it would get paid.)
 
timbuck said:
Would it be Cal-South that has to step in and force some changes? Because those that are collecting money never will.
They have a list of "Sanctioned Tournaments" on their website: https://calsouth.com/sanctioned-tournaments/
For the month of August, there are 53 Tournaments listed. An average of 13 tournaments PER WEEKEND!!!!! (now some of these are the same tournament but have split weekends for boys and girls).
There are 15 tournaments on Labor Day weekend alone.
Click to expand...
The club soccer system in Southern California is rotten to the core in most cases, and that is because of those running the leagues. It's unregulated and thus open to corruption and operates without core values. Imagine the SCDSL, the best business model in the world that capitalizes on the pocketbooks of parents and does not take into account the most important factor -- the children that play. This league is so successful and absorbs no risk. Clubs pay per team (parents pay ultimately in fees), SCDSL creates the schedule, parents pay for refs, SCDSL uses a software template and procures fields. Within this framework, clubs create tournaments, apparently regulated by Cal South, but that is just a rubber stamp based on quality, tournaments have costs that are priced at whatever the market can absorb, but clubs are still beholden to a system that acts like nepotism and is very partial. Based on this, there is no governing body that could step in and make rules. They are all in it to make more profit.

US Soccer is the most successful model and appears to operate more based on rules and not backroom deals and what looks like nepotism, though it certainly exists. Schedules are created far in advance, referees are well trained (mostly), fields are procured in a fashion that appears orderly. in other words, there are rules under US Soccer. US Soccer, if it enforced its power, would be the governing body that steps in and asks clubs to report to it. Socal would be the best possible pilot, due to the tipping point that has been reached. If all soccer in socal reported to US Soccer, a change could be made that benefitted players and their families, not the few narrow minded, money hungry folks who are currently exploiting the club soccer wild west.
 
justified said:
US Soccer is the most successful model and appears to operate more based on rules and not backroom deals and what looks like nepotism, though it certainly exists. Schedules are created far in advance, referees are well trained (mostly), fields are procured in a fashion that appears orderly. in other words, there are rules under US Soccer. US Soccer, if it enforced its power, would be the governing body that steps in and asks clubs to report to it. Socal would be the best possible pilot, due to the tipping point that has been reached. If all soccer in socal reported to US Soccer, a change could be made that benefitted players and their families, not the few narrow minded, money hungry folks who are currently exploiting the club soccer wild west.
Click to expand...

Don't disagree with the gripe, but if US Soccer were in charge, given the prior issued development initiatives and where they are right now in philosophy, tournaments, for 12 and unders at least, would be a thing of the past (or at the minimum they'd likely be banned from giving out awards/trophies/placements).
 
Grace T. said:
Don't disagree with the gripe, but if US Soccer were in charge, given the prior issued development initiatives and where they are right now in philosophy, tournaments, for 12 and unders at least, would be a thing of the past (or at the minimum they'd likely be banned from giving out awards/trophies/placements).
Click to expand...
Are you saying this would be a bad thing?
 
There will always be a tournament. If USSOCCER said stop tournaments, clubs would call it a gathering of the better than better teams.
 
timbuck said:
Are we at a tipping point of tournament saturation?
Maybe it's this way every year and I haven't paid attention.

With a few exceptions, it seems that every tournament is:
1. Begging for teams to sign up a week before.
2. Has filled brackets mostly with teams from their club/sister club
3. Has moved a team up an age group to fill in.
4. Just leaves an open spot.
5. Only have 1 bracket of 4 teams. Or 2 brackets of 3 teams with top points moving to the final (When the draw you get has a big impact).
Click to expand...
My DD's team joined 3 tournaments this summer last minute and 2 of which we filled in an open spot in the age group above. I'm told it was at a significant discount although I'm not sure of the exact savings. The first time we played up an age group they lost in the championship game. The next time will be this coming weekend - we'll see how it goes. It hasn't been a summer crammed with tournaments every weekend for her team so it was actually nice to play in more than we originally thought at a discounted price.
 
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