Substitution Rules

timbuck

timbuck

What we're the substitution rules last year for u12 and u13?

These are the current SCDSL rules which were updated mid-September.

"2008(b), 2008, 2007 and 2006 - Unlimited substitutions
2005 and 2004 - One re-entry per half, per player. Each half stands on its own
2003 and older - No re-entry in the first half and one re-entry in the second half, per
player. Each half stands on its own."

I seem to recall unlimited subs until u14 or u15, but I could be wrong.
Is the 1 re-entry per half being tracked?
Seems that for "development" this rule might be counterproductive

I.E.- coach subs a girl to give her advice, encouragement, reprimand or make a subtle change the puts her back in.
 
timbuck said:
What we're the substitution rules last year for u12 and u13?

These are the current SCDSL rules which were updated mid-September.

"2008(b), 2008, 2007 and 2006 - Unlimited substitutions
2005 and 2004 - One re-entry per half, per player. Each half stands on its own
2003 and older - No re-entry in the first half and one re-entry in the second half, per
player. Each half stands on its own."

I seem to recall unlimited subs until u14 or u15, but I could be wrong.
Is the 1 re-entry per half being tracked?
Seems that for "development" this rule might be counterproductive

I.E.- coach subs a girl to give her advice, encouragement, reprimand or make a subtle change the puts her back in.
Click to expand...

Limited substitution rules stupidly interfere with player development.
 
One thing this rule prevents is having a coach doing mass subbing every ten minutes while maintaining pressing defensive.

I remember some teams subbing 5-6 players at a time pressing other team , then 10 - 15 minutes later doing over again after the players were rested. This would happen 2-3 times per half.

Win a lots of games , but not real soccer.
 
Bubba said:
One thing this rule prevents is having a coach doing mass subbing every ten minutes while maintaining pressing defensive.

I remember some teams subbing 5-6 players at a time pressing other team , then 10 - 15 minutes later doing over again after the players were rested. This would happen 2-3 times per half.

Win a lots of games , but not real soccer.
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What is "real soccer"?
 
Not doing wave subbing . No team can do pressing for a whole 90 minute game. Must pick your moments .
 
espola said:
Limited substitution rules stupidly interfere with player development.
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Actually, no. Players need to develop how to play the duration of the game as minutes increase with age. If its free sub, players don't know how to regulate energy spent on the field for 90 minute or more games in the future.

I see your point about not getting more players onto the field but that's looking at it from a different aspect. The reason for limiting subs have to do with developing players' endurance and performance in game situations.
 
The "real" game of soccer requires players to have endurance and to measure their energy throughout a 90 minute game.
But this is for adults that are in mature bodies with (usually) mature minds.
04 kids are 12 or 13 years old. Still kids. They shouldn't be expected to run a full 70 minutes yet. You don't see many kids that age running 10k or longer races. Not because they can't, but because it's not good for their bodies.
The SCDSL rules allow for 1 re-entry per half, which is suppose is ok. They can come off of the field and then go back on one time in a 35 minute half.
Looks like Coast doesn't have the same restriction and allows unlimited substitution.
 
mirage said:
Actually, no. Players need to develop how to play the duration of the game as minutes increase with age. If its free sub, players don't know how to regulate energy spent on the field for 90 minute or more games in the future.

I see your point about not getting more players onto the field but that's looking at it from a different aspect. The reason for limiting subs have to do with developing players' endurance and performance in game situations.
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Nonsense. Very few players on the field are running, jumping, or kicking for the full 90 minutes. If that is your aim, then 90 minutes of suicide drills twice a week will be more effective.

Any playing environment (league, tournament, showcase, whatever) that purports to enhance "development" of players should give the coaches full freedom to substitute as they deem appropriate. If it appears that coaches are taking advantage of that freedom just to win games (horrors!) that should be dealt with their DOCs and perhaps their league officials.
 
Nope, always been that way:
http://www.scdslsoccer.com/docs/SCDSL_R&R_FINAL_6_21_11.pdf
U9-U10 Unlimited substitutions
U11-U13 One re-entry per half
U14-U19 No re-entry in the first half and one re-entry in the second half

By the time kids play 11v11 (12-13 yrs) running for a whole game is fine and they should be conditioned to do so.

Mids run between 7-9 miles a game according to the mi meter we had on their cleats, they learn how to pace themselves.

The unlimited sub thing at 11x11 was at some tournaments I recall and the mass line changes where kind of annoying, hard to get or keep a flow or consistency going.

Once you get to the DA, ENCL, HS or above most follow the FIFA guidelines; no re-entry, max 7 per, etc

The problem with the more restrictive sub rules at these higher levels is playing time fo the subs, they normally don't get enough. Either the roster is too larger or the need to get a result outweighs development.

And yes a youth team can press the entire 11v11 game with very limited subs 1-3, seen it done for years and both by kids play(ed) on and versus teams that did/do this.
 
I see both sides of the argument. On the one hand, if we are talking about development in the sense of "minutes on the field", unlimited substitutions makes sense. You can move players in and out and everyone can get a bunch of playing time and as a coach you can have conversations and make corrections and then send the player back in.


On the other side of development is learning how to conserve or wisely use your energy during a match. If you have unlimited sustitutions, as others have mentioned, a coach could use the tactic of doing 10-12 minute shifts where he instructs a group of 6 players to go 1000% with super high pressure and pressing and then come out and send in the next 6 and have them do the same....etc.

In that sense, the players arent learning how to decide when to "turn it on" and "when to turn it down".....it's just go 100 mph until you get subbed off.

So there are pros and cons to both sides IMO.
 
espola said:
Nonsense. Very few players on the field are running, jumping, or kicking for the full 90 minutes. If that is your aim, then 90 minutes of suicide drills twice a week will be more effective....
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Did you ever play the game at a high level? Players are running for most of full 90 min. Typically cover multiple miles in a game. No they are not sprinting for full 90 and that's the point. They need to be able to sprint at 100% at the end of the game as well as at the beginning of the game.

How often have seen players making mistakes and not giving full effort as they fatigue during the game. In free sub, many coaches tend to demand full 100% energy for short duration then sub players out to rest and recycle. That's fine if the objective is just to play rec but the rules don't allow for that; hence, its part of a development to regulate tactically body energy output.

We disagree.
 
espola said:
Nonsense. Very few players on the field are running, jumping, or kicking for the full 90 minutes. If that is your aim, then 90 minutes of suicide drills twice a week will be more effective.

Any playing environment (league, tournament, showcase, whatever) that purports to enhance "development" of players should give the coaches full freedom to substitute as they deem appropriate. If it appears that coaches are taking advantage of that freedom just to win games (horrors!) that should be dealt with their DOCs and perhaps their league officials.
Click to expand...
Whether you agree with the rationale, the effect of FIFA's substitution rule is that part of a forward's tactics is to tire out defenders while preserving his/her energy. Defenders have an advantage when everyone has fresh legs. When fatigue is a factor, it's more equalized for the offense. That's why around 60% of goals in the pros come in the second half. That's a number from memory but shouldn't be too far off.

Another thing is that without timeouts, a coach's role is more limited than in other sports. Unlimited sub/re-entry would allow a coach to have a bigger role by sending in fresh defenders, and stalling the game while ahead, and interrupting the flow of the game.
 
Laced said:
Whether you agree with the rationale, the effect of FIFA's substitution rule is that part of a forward's tactics is to tire out defenders while preserving his/her energy. Defenders have an advantage when everyone has fresh legs. When fatigue is a factor, it's more equalized for the offense. That's why around 60% of goals in the pros come in the second half. That's a number from memory but shouldn't be too far off.

Another thing is that without timeouts, a coach's role is more limited than in other sports. Unlimited sub/re-entry would allow a coach to have a bigger role by sending in fresh defenders, and stalling the game while ahead, and interrupting the flow of the game.
Click to expand...

Limited substitutions come from the days when therre were no substitutions, and that was preserved as much as possible as clubs got richer since it meant smaller payrolls.
 
espola said:
Limited substitutions come from the days when therre were no substitutions, and that was preserved as much as possible as clubs got richer since it meant smaller payrolls.
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Roster size for adult games has always been 22+, so your rationale about payroll savings doesn't make sense.
 
Laced said:
Roster size for adult games has always been 22+, so your rationale about payroll savings doesn't make sense.
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Always?

The number of substitutes usable in a competitive match has increased from zero (meaning teams were reduced if players' injuries could not allow them to play on) to one, to two out of a possible five in 1988,[8] two plus one (injured goalkeeper) in 1994,[9] and then (in 1995) to three.

Substitutions during matches in the English Football League were first permitted in the 1965–66 season. During the first two seasons after the law was introduced, each side was permitted only one substitution during a game. Moreover, the substitute could only replace an injured player. From the 1967–68 season, this rule was relaxed to allow substitutions for tactical reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_(association_football)

​
 
espola said:
Always?

The number of substitutes usable in a competitive match has increased from zero (meaning teams were reduced if players' injuries could not allow them to play on) to one, to two out of a possible five in 1988,[8] two plus one (injured goalkeeper) in 1994,[9] and then (in 1995) to three.

Substitutions during matches in the English Football League were first permitted in the 1965–66 season. During the first two seasons after the law was introduced, each side was permitted only one substitution during a game. Moreover, the substitute could only replace an injured player. From the 1967–68 season, this rule was relaxed to allow substitutions for tactical reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_(association_football)

​
Click to expand...
Now you're being unfair. You're referring to events that took place before the rest of us were born
 
timbuck said:
......Is the 1 re-entry per half being tracked?......
Click to expand...

In the games that I referee (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) that have restrictions on substitutions, the referee crew tracks the substitutions. It is easy to track the substitutions if the referee crew requires the player to completely leave the field of play before the new player can come on. SCDSL, ECNL and DA all allow the referee to add time at the end of each half, so there is no reason why referee crew would not be able to track the substitutes. I know that not all referees track the subs in these leagues, because I have had coaches try to put players back in the game after they have been subbed out. When I tell them that their player cannot reenter for the half, their response is usually, "The other referees let us do it." And, my response is usually, "Evidently they did not read the (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) rules."
 
So you play for 10 minutes full speed, rest 10 minutes, then reenter and play full speed for 10 minutes and then half time hits. You can still do wave subbing with the one reentry rule in 2005 and 2004. I've never seen a kid on our team(CSL) subbed more than once in a half. 4-5 kids play the whole first half, 4-5 kids are subbed out in the first half. Second half 3-4 kids still play the whole game, with about 5-6 kids being subbed for again. A different kid usually gets hurt enough to keep them out for the game. We had plans to sub out the keeper at half time so she could play in the field in the 2nd half, just hasn't happened yet.

What are the high school rules? Is it unlimited? Seem to remember a girl being subbed in for throw ins when near the opponents goal.
 
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