"Protect" the Keeper

Discussion in 'GOALKEEPER Forum' started by Definitelynotanotherref, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Ratings:
    +1,468 / 9
    Holy crap, NFL players get ejected for lesser hits! I gotta believe that there was some sort of backstory there in order for any player to even be in the mindset to think of doing that. Even the defender #3, couldn't believe what she just saw. 2 games suspension doesn't even seem harsh enough considering that forward could easily have a concussion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. PaytoplayinLancaster?

    PaytoplayinLancaster? Bronze

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +50 / 2
    There’s a stolen prom date story in there somewhere.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  3. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref Bronze

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +140 / 5
    "I will be the first to admit that I am very reluctant to give out red cards at U14 and younger. The game must really need it for me to give it.
    My one suggestion for your daughter is that if you see someone bigger than you running at you at full speed, then drop to the ground. Let momentum and gravity do the work for you instead of your body taking the brunt of the tackle.
    The second tackle outside the box that you describe definitely sounds reckless. But it could just as easily be seen as clumsy. "Well that is where the ball used to be" would be the excuse of the girl. To call it "beyond ridiculous" is a little extreme, and it assumes the worst of a 13 year old girl.
    I think you hit the nail on the head though when you blame the coach and ref (the ref is at fault for the same reasons as the coach) for not having a stronger personality and condemning the first tackle a little stronger. I do not think a second yellow card would have protected your daughter any more than the 1st yellow card did. That is a persona and presence issue. Even though it is hard to fault someone for not having the right persona.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref Bronze

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +140 / 5
    I recently was an AR to a mediocre center in a U14 game where a much taller kid (forward) could not for the life of him, understand why he kept getting fouls called on him. At one point he had tears in his eyes as I explained to him that he could not run through defenders to get the ball. "I'm NOT DOING ANYTHING! HE IS JUST RUNNING IN FRONT OF ME AND THEN STOPPING! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO! IT"S NOT MY FAULT!" Meanwhile the poor tiny defender that tried to shield the ball out of bounds is in a crumpled heap on the ground.

    Adding fuel to the fire was the kids' mother. "Don't worry, those aren't fouls, they are just calling those against you because you are bigger and stronger. You won't have to worry about it once you get older". 5 minutes later in a clumsy heap and down go 3 kids. Some miscellaneous body part hit the bigger kid in the face and he was swearing he got deliberately punched and subbed out for injury... crying of course. Coming from the other side of the field yells a dad "THAT'S WHAT YOU GET!" He is the same dad that has been yelling for red cards all game. The center referee then runs to the other side of the field to tell the coach to quiet his parent down.

    Who is at fault in this story? Is it the kids? The referee's? The coaches? The parents? I just want to add a little humanity to the "perpetrator". The 13 year old girl who injured your daughter is mostly likely not evil, probably not even out of control. How do you think she felt about shouts calling for her immediate expulsion? She has probably never even seen a red card given in her life before to anyone, much less to her.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Grace T.

    Grace T. Silver

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +558 / 9
    If soccer has to rely upon referees having proper persona and presence to control the game [and the sidelines] then that's really part of the problem. And it's more than just a proper presence. The Laws and the current guidance expect the ref to be physically fit, have a good eye, have a good understanding of the laws, have a good understanding of human nature [particularly that of children and teenagers, boys and girls], have an good understanding of conflict resolution and time management, and a strong presence. That's a lot to ask from anyone.

    Whose at fault? The Laws and the fact that there isn't a lot of guidance on them out there. Technically, as has been argued before in our discussion on goalkeepers and impeding, every player has the right to their space. So of course, the forward cannot run through another player to get to the ball. But the laws don't explain what happens when 2 players want to move into a space simultaneously. Likewise, the laws provide (to make it even more maddening), that the tall forward cannot be impeded (if not challenging for the ball) in his movements. And the kicker is when the defender is not making an attempt to play the ball, and is merely shielding it to go out, there's a really good argument there that such conduct is a foul (even though everyone does and no one calls it). So the striker is out there thinking he is going out there playing his version of soccer (big tall kid blasting through smaller kids who are impeding him to get the ball soccer), the defender thinks he's going out there to play his version of soccer (I get to shield the ball and if I get knocked over the ref should defend me soccer), the ref has a third opinion, and the parents of course are going to go crazy because they all agree with their kids (hey it's part of their nature as parents to back up their kids).
     
  6. Keepermom2

    Keepermom2

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +223 / 7
    My daughter faced sideways to her so she didn't even know she was coming at her. The way the girl carried herself told me that wasn't the first time and she had no problem with it.
     
  7. Keepermom2

    Keepermom2

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +223 / 7
    You are presuming a whole lot without seeing it and using your own experience. My daughter gets nailed all of the time and I hear parents on our team say stuff at times but NEVER do they call for a red card because they are a pretty reasonable group of parents. I am also pretty reasonable because it is the nature of the position she plays and she is aggressive and takes risks. What I described in a great amount of detail was very dangerous and could have been easily avoided. It is very rare at any level to see someone land blasted like my daughter was in the position she was. It is U15 so she is 14 and a 14 year old playing club soccer knows exactly what they are doing and if it was an accident, we would have seen some kind of remorse and we did not. By the way...I don't give a crap how she felt.
     
  8. Multi Sport

    Multi Sport Silver Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +1,338 / 26
    First... I don't condone this. In fact I had a chat with my DD about this. This was my oldest DD.

    Player on the other team was taking liberties with her teammates. Coach puts her in and within moments my DD proceeded to slide tackle the girl, hard, but clean. A few minutes later another tackle of similar style but then a real hard slide tackle that got her a yellow. The girl from the other team mellowed out and the game went on. This was U16.

    Sometimes a team needs to stand up for themselves.
     
  9. Keepermom2

    Keepermom2

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +223 / 7
    Totally see what your saying but that can be a slippery slope. One game my daughter kept getting nailed by one forward when my daughter was sliding to save the ball. Most players have the ability to hop over my daughter to deal with their own momentum but this girl did not even make an attempt and my daughter clearly had the ball and then she would get nailed. The ref. should have stopped what was occurring but didn't. One of our defenders saw what was happening and started running in front of my daughter to protect her and our defender got called on it right in front of the box. None the less, I appreciated the defender taking my role in protecting my daughter. It is a good thing that I go into a state of shock when this happens to my daughter because it results in me saying nothing!
     
  10. Kopi

    Kopi Bronze

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ratings:
    +40 / 0
    You should prepare yourself for college play if your player is thinking of going that way it only gets more physical as they get older. What does your daughter has to say about the contact? I know I used to be really protective of my daughter getting steamrolled but then she told me its part of the game she takes out just as many or maybe more than have ran into her. Remember in college they know exactly what there doing too. I think I freaked out more then my daughter when I seen the size of girls she would be playing against. Know that I'm not discounting what your saying about protecting your daughter just be prepared for the next steps it doesn't get any easier. In the last game of season a forward came in cleats up and nailed my daughter in the lets say midsection (but lower) I thought it should have been a straight red. Ref issued a yellow after 5 minutes she was able to finish off game. Amazing thing was that after the game she said was really sore but made no mention of the refs decision, to her it was just part of the game. She's taught me a lot about not getting worked up about calls or non calls I just appreciate her play and perseverance. Do I stress out? Of course I'm her parent but if she's not complaining I'm not going to. Good luck to your daughter for a great and injury free season.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Keepermom2

    Keepermom2

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +223 / 7
    Yeah...my daughter walked off saying that Ref. should have made calls. After that game we also have one girl on crutches which says a lot about that kind of play from an opposing team. Half the time my daughter tells me about getting kicked in the gut, head or arm etc. and I never even see it because my protective senses makes me seriously black out at that moment. LOL She is a risky player so I have learned to expect it. I wouldn't say I get so worked up, I am just pointing out how Coaches and Refs. have the responsibility to respond not based on compassion for the 14 year old player (i.e. the ref. didn't give the yellow for the second blast which she land blasted her after she cleared the ball) like I believe the ref. did because he knew the second yellow would take her out of the game. When you are dealing with 14 year olds, you should know they have the ability to know right from wrong in soccer and an injury has the potential for more serious consequences because of growth plate issues that are still a consideration at this age.

    I do watch a whole lot of women's college soccer. The first hit my daughter took I have never seen a Keeper taking anything close to it. The second hit she was like a field player so I definitely have seen that and they usually give a yellow card for that kind of play. My friend's daughter plays college soccer and she told me they pull hair etc. and now all of the french braids on the girls make sense. Reduce the opportunity. I prefer to watch good clean soccer but I realize it isn't always going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Dargle

    Dargle Bronze

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +191 / 1
    Different "protect the keeper" issue: Do any of you have a problem with a parent from the other team heckling and insulting your keeper? My son's team plays at a high level and he's gotten enough formal and informal recognition for his GK play that he's reasonably self-confident, but he's still just a kid in middle school and he notices it. He never fails to mention when parents from the other team station themselves near the goal and levy insults against him. It's not just an occasional parent or team either. It's as if some parents see that as a strategy to help their team win - trying to rattle the other team's GK. They're not complaining that he's committing a foul or something like that - they're actually shouting at him telling him that he sucks etc (usually in the context of a game where the exact opposite is true - he's shutting down the opponent). Typically, the parents aren't behind the goal, so the refs either don't notice it or don't care. They tend to station themselves near the corner flag. Most of the time, I'm across the field because the parents sit on opposite sides in our league for the most part, but I don't think a confrontation would be very useful anyway. I just tell my kid to ignore it, but it's really crazy what they're doing.
     
  13. MyDaughtersAKeeper

    MyDaughtersAKeeper

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    323
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +839 / 16
    We sit across from the teams in our league (and I think the last few as well) and I have not seen this recently. That said, I would not be able to keep quiet if this was be done to my kid (or if the parents on our team did this to the opposing keeper). It is inappropriate, obnoxious and rude. My guess is that calling them on it won't change anything (it takes a special kind of a$$hole to do this to a kid), but I would make it as unenjoyable for the low class piece of sh1T as I could. There is no call for this at any level.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. pewpew

    pewpew Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +358 / 7
    Last week I moved sides at half time to sit with my G03 GK. At this age I know we should technically stay on our half and normally do. First game back from an ankle injury so I wanted to be close by to keep an eye on her. I normally sit near the flag so to be on the complete opposite side of the field is kinda hard to keep a watchful eye on her to see body language, hear noise (grunt,ouch,etc).
    We are down 0-3. We finally score a goal. I cheer and clap. (Oops..just got made). 3-4 parents sitting nearby look at me. Only the guys says.."Hey you're on the wrong side." I said..."Yeah I know..this is her first game back from injury so I'm sitting here to keep an eye on her." They were all cool about it after that. We continued small talk here and there. Both teams plagued with injuries. Game ended 1-3. We all wished each other good luck and moved on with the rest of our day. I'm sure if I'd replied back like a total a-hole things could've gone differently. I guess it just depends on whether or not we all act like civil adults and not petulant children.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. socalkdg

    socalkdg Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    348
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +728 / 4
    We were on the road, playing a lesser team, so my daughter(keeper) had the ball played back to her at least 20 times. When the ball was played back one parent on the other team kept yelling "attack the keeper, she is going to screw up." I can't ever remember having a specific player being yelled at before. The parents around me were laughing. She doesn't make mistakes with her feet. It was funny. My daughter thought it was funny.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    518
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Ratings:
    +1,468 / 9
    Wow. That's awful.

    No, I've never once heard a parent berate my kid or say really much of anything to her during or before or after a game. Never heard any of our parents do it to another kid either. Anyone who heckles or berates a child on an opposing team to gain an advantage for their team deserves to be throat punched. Your son needs to alert the referee when this happens. This is strictly against the rules of pretty much every youth league in existence. The parents would be removed, the club potentially penalized, or at the very least told to knock it off and move to their proper position on the sideline.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Dargle

    Dargle Bronze

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +191 / 1
    I think there are times when he tells it to me as if the abuse is direct, but the parents are probably being more subtle than that. For example, they might shout, ostensibly to the kids on their own team, "shoot because the GK sucks"or something like that. Of course, the kids hear it all the same. Sometimes it's in Spanish, which he knows enough of to get the gist, but may not understand the grammar to get whether it's directed at him or about him. Other times, though, it's pretty obviously directed at him. With the ref in the center and the AR on the other side in a diagonal formation, they can get away with it.

    This is boys Gold/Flight 1 level play and some of the teams have parents that are just crazy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. timbuck

    timbuck

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,794
    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,783 / 28
    Gotta teach the kid how to shank a line-drive goal kick right into the offending asshole parent.
    Or a nice hard throw would work too. If that's too obvious, have a center back or outside back run after a ball that has gone over the touchline and "accidentally" run over daddy or mommy who can't keep their mouth shut.
    Kinda like in Varsity Blues when Moxon smashes his dad in the nose from 10 yards away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Surfref

    Surfref Silver Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes Received:
    778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,075 / 21
    Unfortunately I have been a referee on games and have had to deal with these jackass parents making comments to keepers. If I hear the inappropriate comments, that parent gets to go and sit in their car. If the keeper or another player tells me that a parent is saying inappropriate things, then that parent gets one warning and if they say anything negative to any player or referee crew they get to go and sit in their car. Adults should never say negative or inappropriate comments to youth players and refs need to remove the jackasses that think it is okay to yell at kids.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref Bronze

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +140 / 5
    Do you do anything about parents sitting on the "wrong side". I have had people come up to me before asking me to move parents that violated this unspoken rule. There is nothing I can find that requires parents to pick sides and stick to them. Obviously, this is to prevent problems before they occur, but I have had parents that refuse to move, and that in itself creates a problem. To clarify, I am not the one that creates the problem, but sometimes a manager will come up and implore me to arbitrate the problem that has already risen. All I do (all I feel I can do) is ask nicely if they don't mind moving for me and then ask their fellow team parents to make room and ensure the moved parent gets the same "prime" seat location they want. I don't know what I'd do if they refused.

    The parent would have to be unusually strong headed to refuse an entire sideline of parents of their wishes.
     

Share This Page