Late Bloomers

Grace T. said:
Interesting article in the Athletic about the age lines, late bloomers, and bio banding in a variety of sports, including soccer.

theathletic.com

Bio-banding: Sport's attempt to stop talent drain of stars with late-maturing bodies

When youth players are grouped by age in sport it doesn't take into account physical state. So how can late-maturing talent avoid rejection?
theathletic.com theathletic.com
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Have to pay to read it! Can you sum it up? Very curious about late bloomers and the late starting passion levels vs. long history of playing.
 
way up said:
Have to pay to read it! Can you sum it up? Very curious about late bloomers and the late starting passion levels vs. long history of playing.
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Gareth Bale was almost cut for being too scrawny but doctors intevened. Studies say that by U17 80% of the academies are early bloomers close to the age line (that jives with my kid's experience who is a late birthday...one of the pro academies said he's got what it takes and would have wanted him if he were on the other side of the line). Late maturing players released 20X earlier. Talent being left on the table. Some Rugby and football squads around the world are grouping by weight, height and age. Talks about bio banding solutions such as training pods by month and taking weight, height, mental maturity into account. Talks about how some parents see a stigma in playing down. Covers not just soccer but gymnastic and cricket. Talks about the problems with it too that not all kids that are late birthdays need to play down and might open things to play down just to gain advantage.
 
Grace T. said:
Interesting article in the Athletic about the age lines, late bloomers, and bio banding in a variety of sports, including soccer.

theathletic.com

Bio-banding: Sport's attempt to stop talent drain of stars with late-maturing bodies

When youth players are grouped by age in sport it doesn't take into account physical state. So how can late-maturing talent avoid rejection?
theathletic.com theathletic.com
Click to expand...
Assuming bio banding even works (other than some rare exceptions like Bale) there is no way this could ever be implemented in the US. DA/MLS Next dabbled in the idea, I think they hosted one event. My son was identified as a late bloomer, but nothing ever came of it (can't recall if that was DA or MLS). There is no way the MLS Next clubs are going to give up their early bloomers and spend time "developing" late bloomers. There are also very few parents or kids that would agree to playing down...and if they did opposing parents would complain about using older players.

Personally I'd rather have my late bloomer get the experience of battling bigger kids and overcoming that disadvantage using skills and speed.
 
Bio banding bugs me a little.

I see multiple youngers playing with olders + these are the type of players that recruiters go crazy for.

Sept, Oct, Nov Dec players are on the younger side of the equation + usually a year younger in school. But, playing against older kids is just like playing up. In the end, cream will rise to the top no matter what age.

In Futsal my player plays up down left and right. It doesn't matter all they care about is playing. Fortunately our coaches are flexible + just love when kids want to play.
 
Grace T. said:
The stats in the article seem to disagree across 3 sports.
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Surprising, an article that provides a specific viewpoint has statistics that support that viewpoint.

I do belive that a scrappy Nov/Dec kid will get noticed no matter what. Coaches want to win + will play whatever player gets then to that point.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Surprising, an article that provides a specific viewpoint has statistics that support that viewpoint.

I do belive that a scrappy Nov/Dec kid will get noticed no matter what. Coaches want to win + will play whatever player gets then to that point.
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Yes - but when you take out hunches and feels and best guesses, and try to interpret the data directly - it's saying that the same scrappy kid with a Jan/Feb birthday has a measurably higher chance than the same scrappy kid with Nov/Dec birthday. Rebutting that by stating that if a Nov/Dec kid is good enough they will still get noticed isn't actually a rebuttal - it's a separately accurate statement that sidesteps the main point being made.

Just as NHL stars were highly concentrated with Jan/Feb birthdays. That didn't disqualify those poor maple syrup addicts born in December - but in aggregate - their chances were measurably lower, due to nothing more than how soon after Jan 1 they came to be.
 
watfly said:
Assuming bio banding even works (other than some rare exceptions like Bale) there is no way this could ever be implemented in the US. DA/MLS Next dabbled in the idea, I think they hosted one event. My son was identified as a late bloomer, but nothing ever came of it (can't recall if that was DA or MLS). There is no way the MLS Next clubs are going to give up their early bloomers and spend time "developing" late bloomers. There are also very few parents or kids that would agree to playing down...and if they did opposing parents would complain about using older players.

Personally I'd rather have my late bloomer get the experience of battling bigger kids and overcoming that disadvantage using skills and speed.
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MLS Next currently has bio-banding for a limited number of players that are in the 2nd half of the year and within some size threshold. There are two kids on my son's team (one older playing down with us and one younger playing with us and sometimes down with the team below) and a few others I know of throughout the league.

All the parents I've talked to actually like this because the kids get to test their abilities against the olders, but shine when playing with the youngers.
 
Haven't read the article yet, but there are 3 different things to consider here:
  1. Kids that are underaged (born late in the year).
  2. Kids that are undersized.
  3. Kids that develop later (actual late bloomers who may or may not be small).
Bio-banding can help with 1, but not necessarily 2 or 3. Legia famously cut Lewandowski because he was "too small". He's an august birthday, so not underaged, but just wasn't as big as the other kids. (We complain about the US system favoring big kids, but Poland takes this to a whole 'nother level. My 6'1 son was mid-sized when he attended the national team camp this summer.)

Developing undersized but not underaged or late bloomers is hard in our system because a coach has to take a chance that in a few years, they'll pan out, but also risks them leaving to a higher team when that finally happens. In Europe, there are more places to play and develop, but here... there aren't as many options if you're not on a top team.

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is another reason I think the US system of playing "competitive" games early is failing us.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
Yes - but when you take out hunches and feels and best guesses, and try to interpret the data directly - it's saying that the same scrappy kid with a Jan/Feb birthday has a measurably higher chance than the same scrappy kid with Nov/Dec birthday. Rebutting that by stating that if a Nov/Dec kid is good enough they will still get noticed isn't actually a rebuttal - it's a separately accurate statement that sidesteps the main point being made.

Just as NHL stars were highly concentrated with Jan/Feb birthdays. That didn't disqualify those poor maple syrup addicts born in December - but in aggregate - their chances were measurably lower, due to nothing more than how soon after Jan 1 they came to be.
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You're putting words in my mouth.

I never said that Jan/Fab birthday players don't have an advantage.

I said that talent will find a way to the top no matter what. This is why I provided the players playing up example.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
You're putting words in my mouth.

I never said that Jan/Fab birthday players don't have an advantage.

I said that talent will find a way to the top no matter what. This is why I provided the players playing up example.
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OK - but in the line right before that, you posted this:

Carlsbad7 said:
Surprising, an article that provides a specific viewpoint has statistics that support that viewpoint.
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What is the most charitable interpretation of that comment, other than you are broadly casting doubt on the viewpoints shared in the article because it *checks notes* provides statistics that support its conclusions?
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
What is the most charitable interpretation of that comment, other than you are broadly casting doubt on the viewpoints shared in the article because it *checks notes* provides statistics that support its conclusions?
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You have an interesting interpretation of numbers. Most people understand that statistics can be skewed in multiple ways.

You seem to get a number defined result and believe it's 10000% right no matter what. A very black and white way to think about things.

zo2dt.jpg
 
Carlsbad7 said:
You have an interesting interpretation of numbers. Most people understand that statistics can be skewed in multiple ways.

You seem to get a number defined result and believe it's 10000% right no matter what. A very black and white way to think about things.

zo2dt.jpg
Click to expand...

And you seem to ignore or discount any opinion or conclusion that doesn't align with your preconceived notions, regardless of related facts or evidence. It's not a unique trait, it's both common and unfortunate.

i-know-im-5cc1bd.jpg
 
focomoso said:
MLS Next currently has bio-banding for a limited number of players that are in the 2nd half of the year and within some size threshold. There are two kids on my son's team (one older playing down with us and one younger playing with us and sometimes down with the team below) and a few others I know of throughout the league.

All the parents I've talked to actually like this because the kids get to test their abilities against the olders, but shine when playing with the youngers.
Click to expand...
This hybrid approach is probably the most "palatable" way to go for all parties involved. Although I'm still skeptical of how beneficial bio banding measures will be, especially if its just being dabbled in. I haven't heard any larger scale success stories, and most articles about the topic usually just mention Gareth Bale. To be done right, you're probably looking at doing bone density testing to identify late bloomers, although that would still leave out the players that are only going to be 5'6" (a potential Maradona :)).

To me the core issue is still talent identification, particularly in terms of soccer IQ, which I've posted ad nauseam about.
 
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