Honest coach feedback

First, thank you all!
The information here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound, I feel like you all should write a book!
I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching.
I have shared this info with my DD and she has committed to working on many of these things (continued soccer IQ from watching her own and other games, sprinting speed specific to soccer, touch, anticipation, ball skills, foot speed) while continuing to grow as a player to reach her goal of playing college soccer in a few years.
Regardless of where she ends up, we appreciate each of you taking the time to share your knowledge with us to help her on this journey!
 
soccermail2020 said:
First, thank you all!
The information here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound, I feel like you all should write a book!
I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching.
I have shared this info with my DD and she has committed to working on many of these things (continued soccer IQ from watching her own and other games, sprinting speed specific to soccer, touch, anticipation, ball skills, foot speed) while continuing to grow as a player to reach her goal of playing college soccer in a few years.
Regardless of where she ends up, we appreciate each of you taking the time to share your knowledge with us to help her on this journey!
Click to expand...
Your DD should seriously consider finding a new team with a coach who is not an ass.
 
soccermail2020 said:
First, thank you all!
The information here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound, I feel like you all should write a book!
I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching.
Click to expand...
It's been hard for 90% of us. I think the "snitch" reporting days will come to an end, at least i hope so. Monitoring what 13 years olds are doing with their free time and reporting back to higher ups is pure evil!!! PM me anytime :) P.S. I will NEVER share anything you share with me at the fields or PMs you send me. 100% promise.
 
soccermail2020 said:
First, thank you all!
...I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching...
Click to expand...
For the love of God, find a better team / coach.
 
focomoso said:
For the love of God, find a better team / coach.
Click to expand...
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
 
SFR said:
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
Click to expand...

a. That's why you have to watch a game before you commit.
b. The roster problem thing is only an issue if your kid is playing below the median line of the level for that particular league. If they are a decent player for that level, they'll be picked up by any coach who thinks both the family and the player are compatible with the team's philosophy.
c. If you aren't above that line, then yes it will be a struggle. But then you have the trade off: do I want to keep playing at this level knowing I'm just a bench player or do I want to go somewhere I can actually get more minutes. What's important for you.
d. The answer the younger the kid more absolutely becomes that "more minutes".is more important.
5. "deserves". I'm one of the harshest critics around here about the garbage stuff that goes on with club soccer. My kid has been put through the ringer by more than 1 coach. But no one "deserves" playtime....when you sign up with a team, it's important to know how the coach is going to hand out those minutes (and if the coach breaks his or her word move on). If equal playtime is important, there are those organization (like AYSO United) which believe in distributing minutes (though I've seen some breaches of that philosophy even there).
 
SFR said:
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
Click to expand...

The key is to find a team where your child can "fit in". But you need to be realistic about your child's actual abilities and have realistic expectations. Not every child is a GOAT. You need to know your child's strengths and weaknesses.

At the older age groups, you should not be focusing on "name brand" or "elite leagues" because this is where you will encounter the problems that SFR mentions. If you are willing to drive a bit further (but not too far) from home to attend practices, there are many teams with smaller clubs that offer many opportunities. Playing on a silver-elite or gold CSL team where your child is an integral part of the team and is heavily involved in team play is better than riding the bench on a Discovery level SCDSL team. At the high-school age group, your priority is to play as much as possible, and to collect enough meaningful video highlights that you can send to a college coach. The "hype" about playing in showcases can be "overhyped" as meaningful videos can be a better recruiting tool if you have a good idea of what colleges you want to play for.
 
In terms of "how to find a better team/coach", just look up all the teams in your age group(s) (e.g., if you are 2005, you can look for both 2004 and 2005), contact the coach, and try to invite yourself to a practice. Go watch them play (if you can). Ignore the league (CSL or SCDSL) and the "name brand" (Slammers vs. HomeTown FC). If you know your child's strengths and weaknesses, you will easily find a team where you know he/she could fit in based on how the coach coaches a game/practice, how the team plays, and the types of players on the team. See if your child's strengths and weaknesses can complement the other players on the team. Keep an open mind, and have realistic expectations.

This should be the way that every parent chooses a team for their child, but unfortunately, most decisions are based on one or both of the following: (i) "fame" of the coach/club, and (ii) friends playing together. Too little emphasis is placed on the factors I mentioned above. Players end up on teams where they don't fit what the coach is looking for, things go south, then the players jump to another team (again based on one or both of these reasons), and the cycle repeats itself until the player gets burned out.
 
SFR said:
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
Click to expand...
it's very simple....if you get positive feedback from parents whos players getting very little playing time, you found yourself a good coach.
 
We have spent the last two months contacting coaches, going out to practices and watching games of teams where we think it might be a good match. She has trained with teams where she clearly struggled to keep up and teams where she was on the higher end talent wise at the training.
We have listened to how coaches talk to players, watched how they coach during games vs practices and asked questions of other players and parents about team dynamic.
One hard aspect to judge is team talent because so much shifting can occur at tryout time. You cant alway get a gauge on who will remain on the team. Some clubs have had shifts in their programs that caused a shuffling between levels. If a team gives up a program (GA or DPL for example or changes their level of play) you tend to have more movement.

We continue on this journey to find the right fit for my DD with the main concentration of finding the right coach.
 
SFR said:
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
Click to expand...
If your kid is a field player and there is only one keeper, ask the parent of that keeper. First off, keepers are badass, their parents are amazing. :) Second, there isn't usually a playing time issue thus a better chance of getting a good answer as there won't be any jealousy on playing time. Third we always know where our kid is during a game so we have more time to watch the other players during the game, plus parents of keepers are just smarter. ;)

I imagine it can be difficult. We have been on the same team, with different coaches, trainers, etc. Finding a team that will let you practice for a few weeks as well as play a scrimmage or game with them is really helpful. Another thing is don't think just because a team seems set at certain positions doesn't mean your kid can't play at that position. We just decided to take our really good CB and turn her into a holding mid. CB position now being manned by someone new. Good coaches can move girls around to optimize the players they have.
 
SFR said:
Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.
Click to expand...
Yes - it can be hard to judge coaches, especially if you didn't play soccer yourself and every parent will give a different answer to "how do you like the coach", but for me, that's the wrong question. I'd instead ask the coach and parents about how the coach views their role. If a coach is too protective of their players, 'punishing' them for trying out elsewhere, I'd suggest the coach is doing it wrong. They're trying to win games rather than develop players. The best coaches we've encountered so far have all said that it's their job to get the kids to move up off of their team - whether that's DA to MLS DA, ECRL to ECNL or bronze to silver - whatever level they're at, they should encourage their kids to try out at other clubs or move up to the club's higher-level teams. When I hear that from a coach, I have a much better idea that they're in it for the right reasons.
 
Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club. What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial?
Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process. With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.
 
soccermail2020 said:
Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club. What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial?
Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process. With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.
Click to expand...
I think this is something parents should ask themselves and really see if the club is a good fit for them but we have to first ask ourselves: what are the specifics defining a club's commitment to a child? Here's my list, not in order of importance.

1. 80% Consistent practicing schedule
2. Same Coach unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances (with said coach having 3 teams or less)
3. Try to keep costs down and local play to ensure players can afford it
4. Maintain practice fields
5. Ensure proper warm ups to prevent injuries
6. Ensure positive & safe team atmosphere
7. Push players to play better and work hard during practice and outside of practice
8. Discussion of nutrition and fitness maintenance throughout season

I left play time out because I'm old school and believe it should be earned and not given, part of joining a club rather than staying in rec. Stay in rec if you want equal playing time, and there's nothing wrong with staying in rec. I'd actually encourage more parents and children to stay in Rec because it is a better place for most of the players I see in club these days but Clubs are just recruiting these players in to pad their pockets with third and fourth teams.
 
With all three of my kids (2boys, 1girl) almost through the club soccer "ferris wheel", I can confidently assure younger parents that it is highly unlikely your coach will be completely candid about your kids' weaknesses. My kids have played at medium-sized clubs and the most well known. (note, I did not use the word "top"--just bc everyone has heard of McDonalds doesn't mean they make a better burger than The Cut). Most parents can't handle true constructive criticism about themselves, and especially their soon to be National Team Player--which all of them are at age 12, of course.

This is one of the problems with the pay-for-play-model. Most clubs don't really care about you and your kid, especially the bigger, corporate-driven, brand-expanders--you know the names. They do care about your $5,000/year though. Coaches feel pressure to keep kids and parents happy AND on the team. Therefore, your fancy individual player pathway reports and semiannual meetings will emphasize the positives and gloss over the negatives. I practically had to beg coaches to tell my kids how they can improve specifically, reassuring them that we have thick skin and can handle the negatives. One coach told me that many parents say that but they don't really mean it, and after a day or two of the criticisms sinking in, the parents can't/don't accept it, email about it, argue about it, even make presentations with exhibits to change the coaches' minds. Then, of course, there are emails and conversations to the coach's superiors...so it's like, why even go there knowing all the drama that will flow thereafter?

And, how your player is improving isn't really that important anyway, right? Isn't it all about finding a team with more wins, collecting medals, and posting championship photos on social media? Even if that means driving an extra 3 hours round trip, homework in the car and eating fast food 3x/week?
 
soccermail2020 said:
Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club. What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial?
Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process. With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.
Click to expand...
In our player's contract, it's specifically spelled out that playing time is not guaranteed at all.

From our own experience, on a team of 18, there could be three field players (usually centerbacks) and GK that play every minute especially if the games are close. That leaves 14 players to fight for playing time for the remaining 7 spots which means by default each player gets only 50% playing time. If you do well, you can get 75% but that also means someone else gets 25%.

If you accept the above math, it's apparent that coach cannot develop all 18 players if you use playing time as a criteria. At U11 a few years back my kid was on a team where she played every minute the entire season at CB. Frankly I didn't know if she was developing at the right pace, but I just assumed it was all good since she played every minute.

If your kid is in middle school or older, she needs to have a conversation with the coach (without the parents) to understand what she needs to do to play more. It's easier for some kids than others to do this. But as many have said, it's your kid's journey and she needs to deal with the struggles.

Having said that, is your player making an impact against middle-of-the-table competition in whatever league/flight she plays in? If not and she is not playing much, it could be one of three scenarios:
1. She should not have been offered a spot on the team, and your player should not have accepted it (sorry to be so blunt here).
2. Stylistically she is not a good with her coach/team.
3. She is playing at the right level, but not "obviously" better than her teammates to get significant minutes. It's up to your player to earn more playing time.

For #1 and #2, it's time for a new team.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
In our player's contract, it's specifically spelled out that playing time is not guaranteed at all.

From our own experience, on a team of 18, there could be three field players (usually centerbacks) and GK that play every minute especially if the games are close. That leaves 14 players to fight for playing time for the remaining 7 spots which means by default each player gets only 50% playing time. If you do well, you can get 75% but that also means someone else gets 25%.

If you accept the above math, it's apparent that coach cannot develop all 18 players if you use playing time as a criteria. At U11 a few years back my kid was on a team where she played every minute the entire season at CB. Frankly I didn't know if she was developing at the right pace, but I just assumed it was all good since she played every minute.

If your kid is in middle school or older, she needs to have a conversation with the coach (without the parents) to understand what she needs to do to play more. It's easier for some kids than others to do this. But as many have said, it's your kid's journey and she needs to deal with the struggles.

Having said that, is your player making an impact against middle-of-the-table competition in whatever league/flight she plays in? If not and she is not playing much, it could be one of three scenarios:
1. She should not have been offered a spot on the team, and your player should not have accepted it (sorry to be so blunt here).
2. Stylistically she is not a good with her coach/team.
3. She is playing at the right level, but not "obviously" better than her teammates to get significant minutes. It's up to your player to earn more playing time.

For #1 and #2, it's time for a new team.
Click to expand...

At the younger ages, just be explicit to the coach that you are looking for a team where your kid will regularly play at least 1/2 of each game. Ask if the coach sees your kid getting that based on where he/she stands now. If yes, then the only agreement you can reasonably ask is that, if the coach later determines that your kid isn't good enough to play half games, then the coach will not stand in the way of moving to another team whether that is mid season or whenever.

No kid under 13 should be asked to go a full year without playing in real soccer games. That is an eternity for a kid. I wouldn't go more than a season at 1/2 games either.
 
To clarify: playtime was not the focus of my post. I believe that everything is earned and playtime should not be expected.
Although it IS my belief that playtime is essential to the development of a player, that isn’t the reason for my suggestion regarding a contract. The mutually beneficial agreement that I would love to see established was more about a commitment between the coach and player to allow the kid enough time to “prove” themselves before being replaced. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be other players on the team to share time with but I think it should mean that the coach isn’t recruiting replacements mid season. Kind of like a dead period to recruiting.
 
soccermail2020 said:
To clarify: playtime was not the focus of my post. I believe that everything is earned and playtime should not be expected.
Although it IS my belief that playtime is essential to the development of a player, that isn’t the reason for my suggestion regarding a contract. The mutually beneficial agreement that I would love to see established was more about a commitment between the coach and player to allow the kid enough time to “prove” themselves before being replaced. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be other players on the team to share time with but I think it should mean that the coach isn’t recruiting replacements mid season. Kind of like a dead period to recruiting.
Click to expand...
Implicit in what you are saying is that playtime should be expected if it is earned. But, "earned" means different things to different coaches. If a coach favors kids (who likely got more playing time) coming from another team, it may tell you something about how the coach thinks a spot is earned.
 
99% of what your kid is going to learn about the game is going to be learned during training sessions. Before you commit to a new team, watch a couple of sessions and check to see that the coach is providing feedback to all the players, not just yours. For youngers, that means primarily skills, with a bit of shape work thrown in. For olders, it depends on the level of the team but again you would expect mostly shape work and advanced movement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top