Foul or No Foul

Discussion in 'C'mon Ref!' started by TangoCity, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. TangoCity

    TangoCity Silver

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  2. watfly

    watfly Silver

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    As a non-ref, I don't think its a foul. Depending on what angle the ref saw the play from the actual call could go either way. AR appears to have a decent angle.

    Why is the AR's leg on fire?
     
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  3. timbuck

    timbuck

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    Leg on fire? Why does that field look so narrow?


    I say foul. No card.
     
  4. coachrefparent

    coachrefparent Silver

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    Impossible to tell from this horribly blurry video, and the angle. I thought iphones have great cameras and HD???

    Could be that defender got ball, and players came together on fair challenge. Or, defender got foot on ball but then collected the offensive player, leading to PK and yellow. Looked a bit like the Mexico game tonight. No one can tell from this amateur video, and probably would be just as hard with full blown professional VAR.
     
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  5. jrcaesar

    jrcaesar Silver

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    From the video angle, looks like a fair tackle (beats attacker to ball). If I was where the referee likely was, I might see and sell a foul/PK there.
     
  6. Tea and Busquets

    Tea and Busquets Bronze

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    No foul. Play on.
     
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  7. timbuck

    timbuck

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    You guys must have a very different opinion of fouls than me.
    I’ve watched it full speed. I’ve watched it in slow motion. I’ve stopped it at the point the defenders gets to the attacker.
    I see a foul from behind without question. “Getting the ball” doesn’t mean there isn’t a foul.
    Pretty sure the attacker went down when the defenders leg tripped her.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
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  8. Tea and Busquets

    Tea and Busquets Bronze

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    Disagree.

    While there are cases where a player tackles the ball and continues on to make contact with a player and a foul should be called, these are almost always when some sort of misconduct is also involved (studs up, with contact with the other player, etc.). Cases like this are really pretty rare.

    If a player tackles the ball and the other player has some momentum that carries them forward into contact with the defender, this is not, and should not be, a foul. Neither should it be a foul if the defender wins the ball first and the defender's momentum carries them into the forward, as long as that contact is not dangerous. To be fair, in older ages, challenges like this are part and parcel of the game.

    For this clip, ask yourself: what was the first thing the defender touched, the ball or the forward? If you agree that the defender got the ball first, you can then ask if the defender's challenge was done unfairly, or dangerously. I hope the answer is then, 'No'. That is why there should not be a foul.

    I could live with a foul being called if these were 10-year-olds that we are talking about, but at this age? Never a foul.
     
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  9. Grace T.

    Grace T. Silver

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    The below source deals with the slide tackle (it's hard to tell if this could be categorized as a slide tackle or an awkward standing tackle), and while who touched the ball isn't completely irrelevant, the below source argues the main question is whether the tackle was safe. Here the tackle is from behind (which FIFA has traditionally frowned upon), the tackled player has no means of avoiding since their vision is forward, the tackling leg is high meaning there is no realistic chance for the tackled player to avoid, and it includes a small push from behind. While contact with the ball first is one of the first questions one must ask, it's not the end of the investigation. I agree those are the questions we must ask, in the order asked, but since it's from behind, high and without a possibility for the attacker to avoid, foul

    http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/when-is-a-slide-tackle-legal-or-illegal/
     
  10. Tea and Busquets

    Tea and Busquets Bronze

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    I appreciate your perspective, but I'm afraid this is not a tackle from behind. Just because the tackler comes from behind the player with the ball does not mean it is a 'tackle from behind'. This is an example of a tackle from behind:

    The player 'goes through' the player with the ball to win the ball; this is what FIFA has traditionally frowned upon.

    In any case, this is not a sliding challenge, nor is it an 'awkward standing challenge' It's a finely-timed challenge that plays the ball before the forward has a chance to. It's not 'high' nor careless nor reckless. It's simply not a foul.

    upload_2019-6-30_17-45-52.png
     
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  11. jrcaesar

    jrcaesar Silver

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    This is a CRL Play-in level game. @T&B adds a good capture of the key moment. It looks like a great play by the defender to catch up and poke the ball away cleanly, without coming through the player from behind. Very good (albeit, very few) players can make that play; it's up to the referee that day to see it. (Also up to the attacker to fall and look for a PK.)
     
  12. jrcaesar

    jrcaesar Silver

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  13. timbuck

    timbuck

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    If the “incident” happened at midfield would you call a foul?
    Or is it because the outcome is a PK that you feel a foul isn’t warranted?
     
  14. JabroniBeater805

    JabroniBeater805 Bronze

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  15. TangoCity

    TangoCity Silver

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    Foul was not called. 1-0 game with two minutes left. Team down by one goal had the ball. If game was a 1-1 tie instead of 0-1 loss then final standings possibly gets flipped. To me it looks like defender does get toe on the ball but did not poke it away. Attacker still has ball near feet until the leg trips her and attacker's last touch pushes ball away because she is headed to the ground. I will try to post the play from another angle. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
     
  16. Gimpyhip

    Gimpyhip Bronze

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    For some reason I can’t see the video but the screen capture makes it look like a good tackle. Your comments however, raise a question I often have. Touching the ball first does not, in my opinion, equal winning the ball. If the defender in a case like this touches the ball or even kicks the ball but it ends up going to a place where the running attacker could still get there and keep/regain possession doesn’t the trip still constitute a foul?
     
  17. watfly

    watfly Silver

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    After I saw the facebook link of the video, which appears clearer, and looking at in slow motion, I wondered if the ball was not cleared from the original toe poke and was only touched, and the ball was cleared after contact. In other words, I can see what your saying. So I'm changing my answer from "foul" to the video isn't clear enough to determine the call.
     
  18. Definitelynotanotherref

    Definitelynotanotherref Bronze

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    I honestly could not tell you what I would call on the day. It is so close to being called either way, and either call can be justified. At the end of the day, whether or not I make the call will depend on unconscious factors I cannot control including, but not limited to: how I am feeling on the day, what the foul count is, is one of the coaches a cheeseburger, which team I believe is playing better soccer, and if I am confident enough in my position to make the call. At the end of the day, "when in doubt, don't make the call" is the motto for AR's and referees. Sorry, I might have to add this answer to the "tough to swallow" pills.

    At the end of the day, a foul is defined as a "careless" challenge. Was it careless.... maybe????
     
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  19. ChargerPride

    ChargerPride Bronze

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    What you don't know is whether or not the defender makes contact at the same time that she toe touches the ball. Having watched this clip which show 2 different angles. My first thought is foul and pk. Would the call been different if the attacker had gotten really hurt, or does it even make a difference. While I agree that defender came from the side. The way the attacker falls somewhat indicates that she got caught from the back. Tough break..
     
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  20. Zdrone

    Zdrone Bronze

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    omg watching slowmo with sound makes me laugh like a loon. I keep having visions of old bugs bunny cartoons pop up in my head
     

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