Feedback on refs from league games

S

SocalSoccerMom

SILVER ELITE
If the assignor sends refs who are clearly too young and inexperience to some of the higher level games, is there a place you can provide feedback?
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
If the assignor sends refs who are clearly too young and inexperience to some of the higher level games, is there a place you can provide feedback?
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From my days as a team manager in Presidio League, I recall a block on the bottom of the game report form to rate referees. I usually put "Good" or something like that, sometimes "Not adequate for this level" (we were in Presidio Premier at the time), and once added a wise-ass comment "Please add this to the pile of complaints you must have gotten from other clubs".
 
I do recall seeing something back then with Presidio. This was for SCDSL game. There have to be better requirements to be certified than taking some online courses and one day training sessions. If there is a shortage, why not send 2 refs that are more experienced than 2 ARs who barely understand the game and spend most of their time watching vs reffing.
 
For Presidio/SDDA, there is a separate comment section that referees and team administrators can comment specifically on the officiating. The first page is the match reporting system. Comments there are visible to all who can access the page (I have been reserving this section for praising good sideline and player behavior). The second page is the referee assessment page. I'm pretty sure this is visible only to certain league/assocation administrators, but I'm not sure:

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SocalSoccerMom said:
I do recall seeing something back then with Presidio. This was for SCDSL game. There have to be better requirements to be certified than taking some online courses and one day training sessions. If there is a shortage, why not send 2 refs that are more experienced than 2 ARs who barely understand the game and spend most of their time watching vs reffing.
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SCDSL does have an avenue to rate the referees on their games. The coach or manager can rate referee.

I had a G99 coach this past weekend yell at me about how much he thought I sucked. His team lost by 2 goals. What he didn't know is that I was assessed on that game by a National Assessor and former Grade 3 referee. Got a good assessment with some constructive feedback and a couple things to work on. I just ignored the coach.

For a Grade 8 (what the majority of refs are) to maintain their certification they must, complete ~20 online training modules and attend five training sessions a year. Most Grade 8 refs that I know attend 8-10 training sessions a year. For a Grade 6 (State, higher level) the referee needs to complete ~20 higher level online courses, complete 8 training sessions, attend 5 Referee Profofessional Development training sessions, pass two assessments on 90 minute games, and pass a fitness test that includs ten 40-meter sprints and a 2 1/2 mile run.

I do think that Grade 7 refs should have to run the fitness and have at least 1 assessment a year. Adult Grade 8 refs should have one CR assessment within their first two years on a U12 game to be able to move up and start doing U15 and below games. Pass an U16 assessment to be able to work U16 and above. Grade 8 should be required to pass an assessment every two years. Emeritus refs should have to pass an assessment yearly on the highest age level they want to work. That would never happen because there are not enough assessor and there would be too much push back from the older and slower Emeritus refs.
 
Surfref said:
SCDSL does have an avenue to rate the referees on their games. The coach or manager can rate referee.

I had a G99 coach this past weekend yell at me about how much he thought I sucked. His team lost by 2 goals. What he didn't know is that I was assessed on that game by a National Assessor and former Grade 3 referee. Got a good assessment with some constructive feedback and a couple things to work on. I just ignored the coach.

For a Grade 8 (what the majority of refs are) to maintain their certification they must, complete ~20 online training modules and attend five training sessions a year. Most Grade 8 refs that I know attend 8-10 training sessions a year. For a Grade 6 (State, higher level) the referee needs to complete ~20 higher level online courses, complete 8 training sessions, attend 5 Referee Profofessional Development training sessions, pass two assessments on 90 minute games, and pass a fitness test that includs ten 40-meter sprints and a 2 1/2 mile run.

I do think that Grade 7 refs should have to run the fitness and have at least 1 assessment a year. Adult Grade 8 refs should have one CR assessment within their first two years on a U12 game to be able to move up and start doing U15 and below games. Pass an U16 assessment to be able to work U16 and above. Grade 8 should be required to pass an assessment every two years. Emeritus refs should have to pass an assessment yearly on the highest age level they want to work. That would never happen because there are not enough assessor and there would be too much push back from the older and slower Emeritus refs.
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One has to wonder how useful these gradings by coaches could possibly be based on the ignorant comments that come from them.
 
Just a Parent said:
One has to wonder how useful these gradings by coaches could possibly be based on the ignorant comments that come from them.
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I'd love to see the comments for the winning and losing teams to see how different they are.
My team had a ref that called a ton of fouls this past weekend. We were down 2-1 and I was livid. Thought the refs were horrible. Then we came back on won 3-2 and I think they did a fine job.
 
Just a Parent said:
One has to wonder how useful these gradings by coaches could possibly be based on the ignorant comments that come from them.
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Baldref and I worked together this past Saturday. One coach did not shut up the entire time. After the first goal he was all over the ref crew. I had a firm talk with him and when he still did not shut up Baldref set some firm ground rules for him. That basically ended the yelling at us except for a couple very brief comments. He continued to loudly berate and joystick his players. He lost and was not very happy with us, so I am sure if he rates Baldref it will be negative even though he did a good job in the center. Sometimes I wish we could rate the coaches, but then that would basically take away from our neutral and no bias position.
 
Just a Parent said:
One has to wonder how useful these gradings by coaches could possibly be based on the ignorant comments that come from them.
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I agree that the responses would be biased in most cases. It would probably say as much about the coach as it did about the referee.

That being said, I think at about half of the coaches, about half the time, are just chirping during games to try to sway the referees and maybe provide cover for their teams (and by extension their own) perceived failure. I was an AR on a Flight 1 BU12 game last weekend, and about 1/2 way into the first half, a coach screamed to the CR, after a foul call, "That's 2 for them and none for us" as if one team being called more for fouls is an indication of poor or biased officiating. I don't think he was that ignorant, just trying to influence future calls.

Thankfully many realize that continuing to dwell on perceived incorrect calls has a detrimental effect on their players and families.

timbuck said:
My team had a ref that called a ton of fouls this past weekend. We were down 2-1 and I was livid. Thought the refs were horrible. Then we came back on won 3-2 and I think they did a fine job.
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Hilarious.
 
Surfref said:
Baldref and I worked together this past Saturday. One coach did not shut up the entire time. After the first goal he was all over the ref crew. I had a firm talk with him and when he still did not shut up Baldref set some firm ground rules for him. That basically ended the yelling at us except for a couple very brief comments. He continued to loudly berate and joystick his players. He lost and was not very happy with us, so I am sure if he rates Baldref it will be negative even though he did a good job in the center. Sometimes I wish we could rate the coaches, but then that would basically take away from our neutral and no bias position.
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i choked on my whistle when I swallowed it.
i certainly notice the scdsl coaches don't really rag a lot on the refs. the guy i worked with on sunday butchered the two games he did (for obvious reasons) and the coaches obviously weren't happy with him, but i think the league being tougher on coaches getting tossed keeps them from doing much bitching, for fear of reprisal....
 
baldref said:
i choked on my whistle when I swallowed it.
i certainly notice the scdsl coaches don't really rag a lot on the refs. the guy i worked with on sunday butchered the two games he did (for obvious reasons) and the coaches obviously weren't happy with him, but i think the league being tougher on coaches getting tossed keeps them from doing much bitching, for fear of reprisal....
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That game with the CR that you are referencing I watched while talking to friends in the stands that you were an AR made me embarrassed to be a referee especially his handling call that negated a goal in that pack of players at the goal line. I could not believe that he made that call from 40 yards away with at least 10 players between him and the ball blocking his view. He should be on the small fields (U10 and below) only. That was dumb of him to ask me at halftime if I saw the handling foul that negated the goal. What did he think I was going to say that it was a good call. Sometimes honest feedback hurts.

I do agree with you that most SCDSL coaches don't yell at the refs as much. If I am going to get yelled at, it is from a Presidio coach.
 
Surfref said:
That game with the CR that you are referencing I watched while talking to friends in the stands that you were an AR made me embarrassed to be a referee especially his handling call that negated a goal in that pack of players at the goal line. I could not believe that he made that call from 40 yards away with at least 10 players between him and the ball blocking his view. He should be on the small fields (U10 and below) only. That was dumb of him to ask me at halftime if I saw the handling foul that negated the goal. What did he think I was going to say that it was a good call. Sometimes honest feedback hurts.

I do agree with you that most SCDSL coaches don't yell at the refs as much. If I am going to get yelled at, it is from a Presidio coach.
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concur. he is an embarrassment. it was tough to watch.
 
Surfref said:
That game with the CR that you are referencing I watched while talking to friends in the stands that you were an AR made me embarrassed to be a referee especially his handling call that negated a goal in that pack of players at the goal line. I could not believe that he made that call from 40 yards away with at least 10 players between him and the ball blocking his view. He should be on the small fields (U10 and below) only. That was dumb of him to ask me at halftime if I saw the handling foul that negated the goal. What did he think I was going to say that it was a good call. Sometimes honest feedback hurts.

I do agree with you that most SCDSL coaches don't yell at the refs as much. If I am going to get yelled at, it is from a Presidio coach.
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I think having a good angle is more important than closeness to play.
 
Just a Parent said:
Since you were part of the officiating team, what did you do about it during, and after the game?
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They were talking about it when I walked up. When I got there to grab my gear, the Grade 15 was telling him he needed to get closer. The Grade 15 was sitting just to the west behind the goal waiting to do the next game and had the best view of anyone. That was when the CR ask me if I saw it. He said, "I think I saw it touch a players arm, but I was not that close." I did not even hear the whistle. I let the Grade 15 and Baldref continue their feedback to him. The CR got the feedback he needed.
 
Just a Parent said:
Since you were part of the officiating team, what did you do about it during, and after the game?
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i didn't do anything. i couldn't change his physicality. i tried my best to assist him, as i assist every other referee i work with, but i could not go out on the field and physically move him.
 
baldref said:
i didn't do anything. i couldn't change his physicality. i tried my best to assist him, as i assist every other referee i work with, but i could not go out on the field and physically move him.
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If that was the extent of his problems I would have to say it was a very minor problem.
 
Surfref said:
They were talking about it when I walked up. When I got there to grab my gear, the Grade 15 was telling him he needed to get closer. The Grade 15 was sitting just to the west behind the goal waiting to do the next game and had the best view of anyone. That was when the CR ask me if I saw it. He said, "I think I saw it touch a players arm, but I was not that close." I did not even hear the whistle. I let the Grade 15 and Baldref continue their feedback to him. The CR got the feedback he needed.
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The reason I'm a little frustrated by what I have read so far is that no one is saying that the referee crew did anything DURING the game to ameliorate what they saw as bad refereeing, only saying what they did after the fact.
 
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