baldref
GOLD
no one discusses things with you. they just laugh at you. myself included.
Deliberate handball to prevent a goal - OK or Not?
- Thread starter justneededaname
- Start date
Please continue.
Basketball and golf analogies don't work for soccer, because the culture of those games is different.
Basketball allots 6 fouls per player, and its culture is such that fouls are strategically used to deny obvious scoring opportunities, and to manage the clock.
Golfing culture relies upon a players' honor to slavishly follow every rule and report every transgression.
Soccer culture is equivocal. Denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity is a send-off offense, and usually results in suspension for an additional game. My own opinion is that this rule should be enforced at the youth level for any intentional foul, with discretion enforcement for the unintentional foul.
Notwithstanding, even at the youth level, we all know coaches who teach the "professional foul," and we all hear parents on the sideline encouraging fouls (and worse). We would do better to teach our children to win with honor; not gamesmanship.
Basketball allots 6 fouls per player, and its culture is such that fouls are strategically used to deny obvious scoring opportunities, and to manage the clock.
Golfing culture relies upon a players' honor to slavishly follow every rule and report every transgression.
Soccer culture is equivocal. Denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity is a send-off offense, and usually results in suspension for an additional game. My own opinion is that this rule should be enforced at the youth level for any intentional foul, with discretion enforcement for the unintentional foul.
Notwithstanding, even at the youth level, we all know coaches who teach the "professional foul," and we all hear parents on the sideline encouraging fouls (and worse). We would do better to teach our children to win with honor; not gamesmanship.
But it's also not "cheating". They broke a rule and got penalized for it. It's the same as fouling someone intentionally to stop a counter attack.
twoclubpapa
SILVER ELITE
In soccer we have the "spirit of the game" which I believe encompasses good character and sportsmanship. I believe deliberate fouls and misconduct are offenses against not only the LOTG but also the "spirit of the game" and reflect badly upon the character and sportsmanship of the player who commits the foul. A significant part of our job as parents is to help our children develop into adults who exhibit good character and sportsmanship. We should not celebrate deliberate fouls a player commits with the aim of depriving the opponents a chance of improving their possibility of winning the game. How many of you would celebrate the deliberate foul which succeeds in stopping a promising attack or saves a goal but also produces a debilitating injury to an opponent?
OrangeCountyDad
SILVER ELITE
If I'm reading this correctly based on comments here, a player had the presence of mind and soccer IQ to make an assessment while the ball was in flight that... 1. he could save a goal using his hand to deflect a certain goal 2. which he knew would result in a red card and his team playing a man down 3. but it was late in the game so that skewed the decision process to it being a smart move, 4. That this decision gave a slight edge because the goalie might make the save, even though statistically less likely to make the save still better chances than a sure goal. I can only imagine how excited the team and sideline were when that goalie actually made the save. Imagining the goalie and team celebrating that save puts a big smile on my face regardless of the dastardly premeditated decision that totally screwed over the other team.fun stuff!!
Bravo young man I am impressed and wouldn't think to second guess that split second decision.
I'm not fan of Louis Suarez but...
Sokrplayer75
SILVER ELITE
Agree and unfortunately you can add coaches to your list as the biggest influence on players committing flagrant fouls. I see it all the time in practice. Especially at the younger ages where agressive behavior equals wins out on the field.
outside!
DA
One of the many reasons I am not a fan of "Bitey".
Its been 5 years since he bite anyone.
It's cheating.
Say a neighbor kid breaks into your car, steals all the change in your ashtray, but gets caught because he didn't know you had a motion detector security camera. After he spends two weeks in juvenile hall as punishment, is he no longer a criminal?
I went to club and school practices for about 15 years altogether. I have never seen that.
outside!
DA
Good for him, still not a fan. He is a great player, with questionable ethics in my opinion.Its been 5 years since he bite anyone.
Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy for a number of reasons:
- were not talking about criminality here
- in this case, the neighbor knew you had a security cam, but did it anyway to prevent something worse from happening (meaning the player who handled the ball knew he was going to get caught, but decided that it was better than letting the goal in).
- the issue is "cheating"...
Is there a qualitative difference between a professional foul and handling to prevent a goal? Is one "cheating" and the other not?
It's cheating.
OrangeCountyDad
SILVER ELITE
HIS TEETH ARE OFFSIDE
HIS TEETH ARE OFFSIIIIIIIIIIIDE
LUIS SUAREZ!
HIS TEETH ARE OFFSIDE
Surf Zombie
GOLD
Last year my DD’s team was playing PDA in a big tournament. PDA is the top dog in her age group and a top 10 team nationally. It was s huge game for our girls.
My DD’s team was up 2-1 with 90 seconds to play. We had a throw in deep in our own third. One of the dad’s on our team was screaming at the kids to “kill the clock” and “boot the ball out of bounds.” It was really windy and any balls that went out of bounds were rolling 30 yards onto the next field. Girl on our team made the throw in, PDA won the ball and then scored just as time expired to tie it up. Game ended 2-2 and it deprived our girls of a trip to the finals. Lot of chatter when the game ended about the girls should have found a way to kill the clock and not really play the last 90 seconds, thus ensuring a trip to the finals.
I’d rather they win or lose straight up. Kicking it out of bounds on purpose or the deliberate handball ya’ll are talking about is just lame, and if my kid was on the other end of that I’d feel they got cheated.
My DD’s team was up 2-1 with 90 seconds to play. We had a throw in deep in our own third. One of the dad’s on our team was screaming at the kids to “kill the clock” and “boot the ball out of bounds.” It was really windy and any balls that went out of bounds were rolling 30 yards onto the next field. Girl on our team made the throw in, PDA won the ball and then scored just as time expired to tie it up. Game ended 2-2 and it deprived our girls of a trip to the finals. Lot of chatter when the game ended about the girls should have found a way to kill the clock and not really play the last 90 seconds, thus ensuring a trip to the finals.
I’d rather they win or lose straight up. Kicking it out of bounds on purpose or the deliberate handball ya’ll are talking about is just lame, and if my kid was on the other end of that I’d feel they got cheated.
Messi>CR7
GOLD
Let's say your kid is the QB of a football (American football) team. His team is up by 3 points with the ball, and it's first down with 2 minutes left. Do you want him to run 3 quick plays or run the clock down before each snap?
We're talking about playing a game here, so I have no problem if the opposition wants to apply gamesmanship. I teach my kids to screw each other as much as they can when they play Monopoly.
I do agree with you that some of the tactics are lame. To me Hack-a-Shaq is the lamest of them all and it made the games unwatchable. Then again, I blame Shaq for not being able to make free throws.
You keep saying that, but don't back up your assertion. Every definition of cheating in sports I can find uses the word "dishonestly": "to violate rules dishonestly" or "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage". There was nothing dishonest about the player's action. He did it where everyone could see it. He just decided that it was a better outcome than letting the ball in.
He cheated.