DA...ECNL...where?

Discussion in 'Girls Development Academy' started by Desert Hound, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    As laid out in my post, DA is pretty much just a rival league to ECNL made up mostly of non-ECNL clubs. There are some seemingly weaker ECNL clubs that decided to switch from ECNL to DA. And there were a select few that had illustrious histories with ECNL that decided to take on both DA and ECNL. But it is only in the SW region where a group of DA-only clubs seemed to believe forming the rival DA league wasn't enough to challenge ECNL so decided to try to put their B teams into a closed league. But that league is nothing like ECNL and has only hurt the top divisions of our two main local clubs (CSL and SCDSL), and conversely, the DPL teams themselves.

    Competitiveness has been debated by others previously. Let me just say that at the '02 level, which I'm most familiar with, there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL. For example,

    - Beach FC has a winning record in DPL, but lost 1-0 to Legends FC West in the California Regional League back in August. Legends FC West, in turn, has a losing SCDSL record (currently in 8th place).

    - Real So Cal DPL is undefeated after its first five DPL games with a +13 goal differential, but lost 3-1 in California Regional League back in August to CSL Premier's Fullerton Rangers White. That Rangers team, in turn, tied its CRL game with CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite, which is currently in 5th place of the Champions division.

    And so on. You get the idea. If DPL were anything close to ECNL the weakest of them should be able to crush Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams. My daughter has played against ECNL teams and the ECNL teams by and large have been at a completely different level than the Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams she's played against. That includes the former '02 So Cal Blues Holley Flight 1 team whose roster now makes up the bulk of the Blues 01/02 DA team (and which team currently has a winning record in DA ).

    It's great that sometimes DA coaches come and watch DPL games. But at the '02 level, I've seen ECNL head coaches (e.g., Strikers and Arsenal) that are also the full time head coaches of the ECNL Reserve teams. It's the same coach and the same system. The structure of DA/DPL makes that overlap harder, not easier, to ever pull off.

    And I'm delighted that your daughter is having a good experience DPL and is getting good training. But so are girls on Flight 1 teams. There are a lot of good soccer clubs outside of Southern California. If there were a compelling developmental reason for DA clubs to form secondary closed leagues others would have done it.

    My impression is that DPL has only been a detriment so far. But again, if there were some evidence that DPL clubs are investing MORE resources in coaching and facilities than they traditionally had invested in CSL Premier and Flight 1, then I'd be sold. Right now all I see is a new shiny logo, hidden rosters, and a disadvantageous change to scheduling.
     
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  2. Simisoccerfan

    Simisoccerfan Bronze

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    Your like a government official or the media. Picking the data that tells your story without looking at all of the data. Go to Youth Soccer Rankings and look at the games the 02 DPL teams have played since last spring. Your conclusions are flawed. On one hand you state that not having the DPL teams has hurt the top brackets of SCDSL and CSL and that DPL has only been a detriment but then you seem to say that these teams would not be competitive with the same top brackets they are hurting. Which is it?

    You mention that Real DPL lost to Fullerton Rangers who tied the 5th place SCDSL team. You fail to mention that this is the same Real team that tied Fram just one week later (who is tied at the top of Premier with Fullerton). They also beat Real SCV (3rd in champions) 3-0. This team also lost twice to So Cal Blues ECNL this summer only be one goal! They also beat the 2nd place SCDSL team CDA Slammers in the CRL play in.

    Now let's look at Beach. You mention they lost to a 8th place team. You also failed to mention they tied the Champions league 3rd place team just one week later. Eagles and Legends have solid track records also. Albion who is tied for 7th place beat Fram (tied for 1st place in Premier with Fullerton) 1-0 in the same CRL event you were quoting above. Pateadores who are in 9th place beat Slammers ECNL this past summer.

    My point is not that the DPL 02 teams are superior nor should they be compared to ECNL. Just that your comment "there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL" is flawed and is based just on the select games you picked to support your premise. I can just as easily pick select games the SCDSL Champions league teams played and make the same case that many of these teams would not be competitive in DPL.
     
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  3. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    I didn't sort through every match. Those poor results alone were significant on their own. Further, I didn't say the BEST DPL teams couldn't compete in Champions. I said there is no indication that a MAJORITY of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in Champions. Your additional game summaries do not refute that statement.

    As you clarify, the top DPL team, Real DPL, is 1-1 vs Champions teams, managed a tie vs a CSL Premier team, and lost twice to an ECNL team. Let's assume this proves Real would be competitive (if not dominant) in Champions. Well, Real DPL has CRUSHED some of the other DPL teams with wins of 7-0 and 5-0. What does that say about those weaker DPL teams?

    Further, Albion did manage a tight 1-0 win over a good CSL Premier team. But FRAM isn't in Champions so I'm not sure how far that gets you by itself. (Also, Albion has had a tough schedule. Odds are good that they'll still finish in the top half of the DPL standings when all is said and done.)

    I agree Eagles and Legends '02 are quality teams and I would expect them to finish in the top half of DPL.

    As for Beach, I wouldn't consider a tie vs the 3rd place Champions team and a loss to the 8th place team indicates they would be particularly competitive in Champions. But in any event, they could also end up within the top half of the final standings.

    Finally, Pateadores DPL has never played, let alone beaten, the Slammers ECNL team. I imagine you looked at Youthsoccerrankings for that result, but that site is not correct. The team that Pats DPL beat (1-0) was the Slammers ECNL RESERVE team (currently in 7th place in Champions). Pats DPL was eliminated in the quarterfinals of that tournament, which featured a Champions team and an SCDSL Flight 2 team in the championship match. http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=57647&Gender=Girls&Age=16
     
  4. Dos Equis

    Dos Equis Silver

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    You can analyze the age groups and teams, cherry pick some game results, and try to make almost any case you want, at least at this point.

    I do not think, however, a convincing argument has been made why the DPL was necessary for the purposes of either development or competition here in Socal. Not on these forums, and not on the field.

    A trend that started with ECNL, exploded with DA, DPL and the competing summer and fall Norco showcases. Too many clubs here in Socal seem dedicated to creating closed leagues and controlling tournaments resulting in the same clubs and teams playing each other repeatedly.

    Our talented players will likely be going down separate paths though their teen years, perhaps to meet once again on the field in college.

    I look forward to better understanding what has been gained but, as a father of a much older player, I know what has been lost.
     
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  5. Simisoccerfan

    Simisoccerfan Bronze

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    You are still missing the point. Your Champions League teams top to bottom are no better than the Premier teams top to bottom and the same goes for the DPL teams. If you look at the results for the teams in these three leagues/brackets over the past few months they all blend together. Almost everyone has good wins and bad losses. For example San Diego has CRUSHED many of your Champions League teams with scores of 8-0, 5-0 and 4-0. What does that say about your weaker Champion's teams? If you think the majority of the DPL teams would not be competitive then you shouldn't care that these teams left, since they are no competition for your Champions team. For the most part SCSDL Champions league is home for a bunch of second and third teams (or in Slammers case 4th and 5th?) for big clubs along with several very good top teams from smaller clubs. Sounds a lot like the level of teams in DPL and CSL Premier.
     
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  6. Simisoccerfan

    Simisoccerfan Bronze

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    I am still waiting on that convincing argument on why SCDSL was necessary for the purposes of development or competition!
     
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  7. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    I agree Champions has some weak teams this season. My point is that the best Champions teams and best DPL teams (the ones that would be "particularly competitive" in Champions) should be playing each other and not separated/forced to play weaker league opponents for half their games.

    As for that San Diego team, I've commented on them before. They are a uniquely talented '03 team playing up. They won the Super Black division of Surf Cup this summer without conceding a single goal, beating several ECNL teams along the way. They really should be in ECNL or DA but their club isn't strong enough overall to participate in either.
     
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  8. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    You may find this Goal Nation article from when SCDSL was founded to be of interest. http://goalnation.com/southern-california-developmental-soccer-league-update/ The focus was indeed development and technical training, particularly at the U8-U12 level. The main issue with Coast Soccer League was that it required teams to win to advance to higher competitive levels, but the SCDSL structure allows clubs to focus on player development and simply place players/teams at the appropriate competitive level irrespective of their team's results the prior season. The founders also emphasize in the article how SCDSL is an open league. DPL, as a closed league with only older-aged teams (that have immediately tried to claim a competitive superiority), is a pretty different animal.
     
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  9. Goforgoal

    Goforgoal Bronze

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    Which is a shame really. It takes a bit of luck, some work and a special team/coach to keep a core like that together I'd have to think, when you have two (as of this year) ECNL clubs in town and now two DA clubs. I can't help but wonder how any club that aspires to participate in the higher level leagues can manage to break the cycle. I have u-Littles though so I really don't know anything about this stuff, but I like to follow along and try to learn what I can.

    Anyhoo, that team's answer to find competition beyond playing up in SCDSL was the US Youth Soccer National League. https://www.soccernation.com/san-diego-soccer-clubs-g2003/
     
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  10. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver

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    I think it's a great example of how chemistry can elevate a team's performance. Not that they aren't amazing individual athletes as well I'm sure, but I guarantee that the years of playing together is paying off big time. I wish more teams were able to do that. I see a lot of disjointed play in the older levels due to all the shake-ups and changes over the past few years like DA shuffle this season and the age-group change last year. @SocalPapa : Do you know if that team is all '03 top to bottom, or are they mostly 03's with some 02's sprinkled in for league play?
     
  11. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    All '03 top to bottom. I haven't seen them play yet, but their stats do seem to confirm excellent team chemistry. 20 goals in 6 games scored by at least 6 different players. And at least 6 different players with assists.
     
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  12. Fact

    Fact Silver

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    SCDSL was not necessary. It was created as means for clubs to line their pockets because CSL limited the number of teams a club could have in each age group and gave the clubs control. Hum sounds familiar to DPL.
     
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  13. Simisoccerfan

    Simisoccerfan Bronze

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    I finally agree with you on something! Please don't buy into the multi year propaganda that SCDSL's formation was all about development as Socal Papa references above. I find it hypocritical here when SCDSL parents are so critical of DPL when SCDSL was founded on similar motivations.
     
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  14. MakeAPlay

    MakeAPlay Silver Elite

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    SCDSL's foundation was made necessary by Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) not wanting to allow the ECNL teams to count their ECNL games as Premier games. In addition, the ECNL teams wanted their top teams to have guaranteed placement in the Premier bracket (an invitation only bracket). Sparks refused that and an ECNL compromise that was offered that would not have the ECNL clubs' top teams play in Premier. This was unacceptable to Mr. Sparks (because how could you say CSL Premier is the top league in the country if the top teams in SoCal didn't play in it) and he told the ECNL teams that all of the clubs' teams would be barred from competing if the top teams did not play. That was his major miscalculation. The ECNL clubs formed a league for their other teams and most of the top clubs came along for two reasons. #1 they wanted to have the ability to play against the clubs that were consistently the strongest in the region. #2 (a happy side effect) they no longer had the CSL restriction of 3 teams per age group. Reason #2 (the side effect) had the unfortunate consequence that anyone that could afford to write a check could get their kid on a brand named club (thus watering down said brand and the overall competition level in SoCal).

    This all was a series of unfortunate events that unfolded over the course of my player's club career. Prior to the breakdown all the best teams in SoCal (on the girls side) other than Surf and Carlsbad Lightning (and to a lesser extent PQ Premier) played in CSL. Surf would have played their too but they were banned for some political reason.

    Those are the facts....
     
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  15. Simisoccerfan

    Simisoccerfan Bronze

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    I agree with you MAP. SCDSL was not formed to create a better developmental environment for players. It was over a turf war. I also understand (not sure if this is an urban legend or not) that around that time a bunch of European clubs wanted to set up academies that would have been free for players in SoCal but the big clubs squeezed them out of the market by preventing them from participating in the local leagues.
     
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  16. MakeAPlay

    MakeAPlay Silver Elite

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    I don't know about the European academy thing but it certainly would not surprise me. I wish that it was formed for development but I can't honestly say that. My kid was developed by her coaches, her parents and playing in the ECNL, ODP, YNT and not the SCDSL. I think that she only played in 3 or 4 SCDSL games. All were critical parts of her development but the biggest part was her desire to improve and play at the highest level. Without the kid's own desire being the driving force, nothing will develop a player.
     
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  17. SocalPapa

    SocalPapa

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    Based on @MakeAPlay's description, it sounds like CSL wouldn't accommodate clubs who chose to have teams participate in ECNL. That's not so much a turf war (a two-way battle) as it was CSL forcing these clubs to leave CSL if they wanted to give their players the opportunity to participate in this new, unique national league. The new local league they formed was an open league, so the league's top teams (whether from ECNL clubs or not) were able to play each other.

    That's not quite parallel with DPL. The SW DA-only clubs could have had all their non-DA teams continue to play in SCDSL (or CSL) if they wanted. Instead those ten clubs unilaterally chose to form a local league closed to all but their own teams. The consequence is weakened top brackets in both CSL and SCDSL as well as weakened league competition for the players on the better DPL teams. Whereas the ECNL clubs seem to have formed SCDSL in order to allow their top players to gain access to a unique level of competition, DPL seems to have been formed irrespective of the competitive impact.

    My daughter is not YNT level like @MakeAPlay's. If your objective is similar to mine, we both want our players to get high quality training and to have consistent competition against well-trained like-quality opponents. Whether our daughters choose to play in DPL, SCDSL or CSL, it seems we are farther away from that objective than we were a year ago. That's a big part of why I'm so critical of DPL.
     
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  18. shortBUTslow

    shortBUTslow Bronze

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    And just to color some further background and irony...

    RSC led the SCDSL charge (look at who was the original president and current VP).. As the card carrying club of the 'we love ECNL' society.. were more than happy to extend a middle finger to CSL in how they recruited the smaller clubs to join in those first 2 years. It is true that Sparks blew it, but he deserves credit for the original structure that gave us CSL Premier - which, given the current landscape, should be remembered with great nostalgia, and maybe a bit of reverence.

    In any case, fast forward to last year when the girls DA clubs were being announced. Lo and behold RSC was left out of the initial announcements. I can only image the panic behind the scene, as RSC lobbied its way into the girls DA, only to be dropped 5 mins later by the ECNL like a bad habit. Business is business, and no one will care in the long run - but the idea that the big clubs are loyal to anything other than the bottom line is hopelessly misplaced.

    What exists now is a mess.... (and considerably less fun). The good news is the SoCal soccer landscape is a lot like the weather in Dallas. It is ok if you don't like it, because it is guaranteed to change.
     
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