Cal... What happened?

Dubs said:
Maybe not this year, but as 2020's 2021's roll in.. they will contend.
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yeah we will see. in the past few years they've had the number 5, 8 and 3 classes in the country sooooooooo
 
eastbaysoccer said:
It’s very difficult to build a program. For one, the top recruits have been already spoken for, 2-3 years out. You are left with the leftovers and a few diamonds here and there that everyone else is looking for.

2) it takes about 5 years before all the players on the team are the new coach’s. You can just clean house like NFL teams do.

3) it’s just really hard to do at a mid level academic school and below. And there aren’t many coaches up to the task.
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There's literally so many coaches on the west coast who have won quicker than she has. Arizona guy took over the same year as Kat and not only has a record that is light years better than Kat's (he's had a winning record every year while she has had zero) but has been to the NCAA's multiple times as well as a sweet 16.

SDSU guy was in the NCAA Tournament 3 years after he got the job.

it took Long Beach 4 years to make the NCAA after MI took over.

It took Tim Ward 4 years and he had winning records after the first year.

Lauren Hanson at SJSU took 2 years.

And I'd guess Oregon is an easier sell than any of those places.

Danny Sanchez at Colorado had them in the NCAA's in his second year.

Good coaches can win. Then they start getting good players to bolster the program. Kat hasn't won and hasn't won and hasn't won...how many good players does she need in order to succeed? And when she gets all these good players, will she know what to do with them?
 
full90 said:
There's literally so many coaches on the west coast who have won quicker than she has. Arizona guy took over the same year as Kat and not only has a record that is light years better than Kat's (he's had a winning record every year while she has had zero) but has been to the NCAA's multiple times as well as a sweet 16.

SDSU guy was in the NCAA Tournament 3 years after he got the job.

it took Long Beach 4 years to make the NCAA after MI took over.

It took Tim Ward 4 years and he had winning records after the first year.

Lauren Hanson at SJSU took 2 years.

And I'd guess Oregon is an easier sell than any of those places.

Danny Sanchez at Colorado had them in the NCAA's in his second year.

Good coaches can win.
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Don’t forget to add Tim Santoro from NC State. After 6 seasons with State, he’s been to tournament 3 times including two Sweet 16 appearances. Complete overhaul of an underperforming program.
 
Thank you Ricky. Seems like the Board likes the program. My daughter met the staff and left Malibu believing she found her new home. So we are passing on College Station, Austin, Fort Worth and Lubbock for Malibu. Only girl on her team to not join a SEC or Big 12 program. Can’t say I’m not excited about regular flights to SoCal and the rest of the WCC campuses come Fall 2021.
 
CaliKlines said:
Don’t forget to add Tim Santoro from NC State. After 6 seasons with State, he’s been to tournament 3 times including two Sweet 16 appearances. Complete overhaul of an underperforming program.
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oh agree. I just was listing west coast schools. If you expand that nationwide you will find coaches who win very quickly when taking over. EVEN if some of them win, then take a step back, then win...etc. They make an immediate and tangible impact on the culture of the program and bring in knowledge and savvy that makes a difference in win loss record. So when a coach has been at a school like Oregon for Pete's sake and can't even manage one winning season it's pretty telling. I honestly don't root against anyone so I am not hoping she fails....it's just taking a long time (and she has yet to do it at any program she's been at).
 
Kat has a lot of tangible support around her program with equipment, facilities, and academic programs. (The Jaqua is quite a building!) Those brick and mortar facilities attract top players. The intangibles are harder to develop.
 
dk_b said:
I offered an explanation and not an excuse but I see how that could be interpreted differently than my intent. My comment re GKs/scorers was more general re the Pac and why schools like, say, Oregon have struggled.

I live in Berkeley so get to watch a lot of Cal games and I usually get to a few Stanford games each year (oddly enough, and full disclosure, the two schools where I have the largest personal rooting interest (no family members among the players on the teams)). I guess that means I’ve watched your daughter, @MakeAPlay , in addition to those of others on this board (I’ve even watched a HS game with my friend, @SpeedK1llz , back in his player’s senior year). I do remember a 7-0 win by Cal over UCLA in 2015, only 2 years before UCLA returned to the national finals. My point is not that Cal will play for the national title in 2020 or that UCLA’s down year in 2015 was comparable to Cal’s 2018 (UCLA was down but Cal’s was worse). My point is that the margin is thin and there’s a reason why the consistently elite teams are few in number.
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Those two seasons were far from comparable. UCLA was coming off of an elite 8 and a national championship and lost 8 or 9 starters and due to a coaching change they only got 3 recruits that made it past their freshman year. So not a typical UCLA recruiting class. Also my focus wasn’t a one off season it is more the fact with the same caliber of talent that the other California PAC 12 schools get they haven’t advanced past the 2nd round whereas the others all won national championships in the last 6 years.

Let’s put it another way. Cal had the #1 recruiting class for 2017 committed and for some reason 4 of the top 5 players chose to go elsewhere and they are all doing well including one of them winning the MAC Hermann trophy. There has to be a reason why...
 
MakeAPlay said:
Those two seasons were far from comparable. UCLA was coming off of an elite 8 and a national championship and lost 8 or 9 starters and due to a coaching change they only got 3 recruits that made it past their freshman year. So not a typical UCLA recruiting class. Also my focus wasn’t a one off season it is more the fact with the same caliber of talent that the other California PAC 12 schools get they haven’t advanced past the 2nd round whereas the others all won national championships in the last 6 years.

Let’s put it another way. Cal had the #1 recruiting class for 2017 committed and for some reason 4 of the top 5 players chose to go elsewhere and they are all doing well including one of them winning the MAC Hermann trophy. There has to be a reason why...
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Bottom line NEIL has underperformed. Cal could reach down south and grab Hanson who Would jump in a heartbeat. Give her 130k which is less than Neil’s 150k and more than she’s making at SJSU.

Or you could go after cal alum HAMM who took sf state to new heights and just joined Davis provided she can do some damage in the big west over the next two years.

Neil moves over to take over at ST.marys or pacific.
 
TexasWave said:
What’s the board’s view of the Pepperdine coaching staff?
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Amazing! Couldn’t ask for a better staff. Focused more on building women of character knowing that with that, great soccer will follow. High level of integrity. They are honest with each player and do what they say they’ll do and keep their word. The staff is what sold my player on committing to the program.
 
MakeAPlay said:
Those two seasons were far from comparable. UCLA was coming off of an elite 8 and a national championship and lost 8 or 9 starters and due to a coaching change they only got 3 recruits that made it past their freshman year. So not a typical UCLA recruiting class.
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Yes, what we are saying is not radically different: “My point is not that . . . UCLA’s down year in 2015 was comparable to Cal’s 2018 (UCLA was down but Cal’s was worse). My point is that the margin is thin and there’s a reason why the consistently elite teams are few in number.” And, as I noted in my reference to Cal’s loss to SCU, it was an explanation - as you have provided here re 2015. The coaching change did not hurt UCLA in 2013 and 2014 but did in 2015 - that’s an explanation. (And I accept that). Cromwell seems to have done a great job in keeping the program at an elite level - again, one of the consistently elite teams that are few in number. A winning program is not an elite program - a program that is consistently in the top 10, consistently makes the college cup, can weather an odd down year without it snowballing into years . . . those are the elite ones. And even a 1st or 2d round loss in the tourney is limited to “disappointment” rather than real questions with those few programs (think about UNC’s incredible legacy - when they lost in the College Cup semis in San Jose, it closed the door on the first senior class to never have won an ncaa championship since the class of 1981 and that class never had an ncaa championship to win!). What makes the PAC-12 great (well, one of the reasons) is that there are so many really good programs, a number of them consistently successful. But even in the pac-12 there are only a couple (2 or maybe 3) “elites”. And that’s the big challenge for any of the programs at the bottom - it is not enough to just play competitive games against the league, you’ve got to win those close ones. And that’s where - going back to my earlier comment - you will have a hard time without an elite gk or a real scorer (preferably both). I’m biased because of my own personal interests but I do hope that regaining that element will make a big difference for Cal (still needs to have tourney success) and adding that will soon be a turning point for Oregon.

(@SpeedK1llz can confirm this or correct any details I get wrong - he and I first connected when I had Stanford-SCU 2d round tix that I could not use (the game Stanford lost in 2OT right after Sullivan went down) (the other game was Pepperdine v I can’t remember (NC State maybe?)). That loss really stunk for any Stanford fan - before the injury, Stanford had dominated and it seemed that this was going to be a special run but SCU’s gk was sensational. Of course a 2d round loss proves to be a blip with an elite program.)
 
TexasWave said:
Thank you Ricky. Seems like the Board likes the program. My daughter met the staff and left Malibu believing she found her new home. So we are passing on College Station, Austin, Fort Worth and Lubbock for Malibu. Only girl on her team to not join a SEC or Big 12 program. Can’t say I’m not excited about regular flights to SoCal and the rest of the WCC campuses come Fall 2021.
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Enjoy it.
It goes by quick!
 
TexasWave said:
Thank you Ricky. Seems like the Board likes the program. My daughter met the staff and left Malibu believing she found her new home. So we are passing on College Station, Austin, Fort Worth and Lubbock for Malibu. Only girl on her team to not join a SEC or Big 12 program. Can’t say I’m not excited about regular flights to SoCal and the rest of the WCC campuses come Fall 2021.
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What year will we see her debut on the roster? ;)
 
MakeAPlay said:
Those two seasons were far from comparable. UCLA was coming off of an elite 8 and a national championship and lost 8 or 9 starters and due to a coaching change they only got 3 recruits that made it past their freshman year. So not a typical UCLA recruiting class. Also my focus wasn’t a one off season it is more the fact with the samSe caliber of talent that the other California PAC 12 schools get they haven’t advanced past the 2nd round whereas the others all won national championships in the last 6 years.

Let’s put it another way. Cal had the #1 recruiting class for 2017 committed and for some reason 4 of the top 5 players chose to go elsewhere and they are all doing well including one of them winning the MAC Hermann trophy. There has to be a reason why...
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So in your opinion... why?
 
full90 said:
oh agree. I just was listing west coast schools. If you expand that nationwide you will find coaches who win very quickly when taking over. EVEN if some of them win, then take a step back, then win...etc. They make an immediate and tangible impact on the culture of the program and bring in knowledge and savvy that makes a difference in win loss record. So when a coach has been at a school like Oregon for Pete's sake and can't even manage one winning season it's pretty telling. I honestly don't root against anyone so I am not hoping she fails....it's just taking a long time (and she has yet to do it at any program she's been at).
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eastbaysoccer said:
there aren't many great coaches out there. The ones that are great,....win and develop the kids.

1) Paul Ratclife was one of few that won at St. Mary's and now wins at Stanford
2) Jerry has been winning for years with CAL and Stanford in his back yard, both of which are BETTER schools
3) Anson Dorrance at UNC -his resume speaks for itself
4) Steve Swanson at Virgina - 26 consecutive winning season, 22 NCAA appearance.
5) The great Clive Charles who coached Portland to multiple championships.

Maybe Amanda Cromwell who had great success at UCF and now at UCLA. Amanda has already proved she's better coach than Neil. Neil is just ok, just another coach that does well enough to stay around because CAL is too cheap to pony up for a big time up and coming coach. And that's true for their big programs like football and basketball----BOTH programs haven't done crap since the old Mike Montgomery and Maruucci/Tedford days.
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I will admit that I have a strong bias towards Cal. However, I can’t recall Cal teams in any sport ever being that good. When I was in High School, I hung out with the Cal football team because one of my best friends older brother Je’rod Cherry played for Cal. My law school roommate Na’il Benjamin played for Cal and was one of the Players Marruuci took to the 49ers with him. My little cousin Beast Mode also played at Cal. Everyone in my inner circle transitioned to the NFL seamlessly despite playing on mediocre teams at Cal. In fact, Je’rod recently auctioned one of his super bowl rings for charity. So, from where I’m standing it looks like Cal is a good option for those that have a decent chance of going pro. But I have to admit you and MAP are in my head and making me reconsider a few things.
 
MacDre said:
I will admit that I have a strong bias towards Cal. However, I can’t recall Cal teams in any sport ever being that good. When I was in High School, I hung out with the Cal football team because one of my best friends older brother Je’rod Cherry played for Cal. My law school roommate Na’il Benjamin played for Cal and was one of the Players Marruuci took to the 49ers with him. My little cousin Beast Mode also played at Cal. Everyone in my inner circle transitioned to the NFL seamlessly despite playing on mediocre teams at Cal. In fact, Je’rod recently auctioned one of his super bowl rings for charity. So, from where I’m standing it looks like Cal is a good option for those that have a decent chance of going pro. But I have to admit you and MAP are in my head and making me reconsider a few things.
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I wouldn't let @eastbaysoccer get into your head ;)
 
MakeAPlay said:
Those two seasons were far from comparable. UCLA was coming off of an elite 8 and a national championship and lost 8 or 9 starters and due to a coaching change they only got 3 recruits that made it past their freshman year. So not a typical UCLA recruiting class. Also my focus wasn’t a one off season it is more the fact with the same caliber of talent that the other California PAC 12 schools get they haven’t advanced past the 2nd round whereas the others all won national championships in the last 6 years.

Let’s put it another way. Cal had the #1 recruiting class for 2017 committed and for some reason 4 of the top 5 players chose to go elsewhere and they are all doing well including one of them winning the MAC Hermann trophy. There has to be a reason why...
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I follow CM very closely because her soccer foundation is similar to my players. I assumed she chose Stanford because they offered more money. What are your thoughts as to why 4 out of 5 top players chose to go elsewhere?
 
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