Academy vs. ECNL

[silverstreak]

I would like the true honest opinion of pros and cons for each....... which clubs will prevail...... let's just say I am shopping clubs for my daughters and I want to give them the best possible chance at success. What we are not hearing from our club now is any type of sales pitch on how they will sustain at their particular status right now regarding this topic and where they are headed for the future you would think we'd have a big meeting or something but parents feel like they're in the dark ....Ready ....Set .....Go....!

 

[Charlotte's Chauffeur]

I would like the true honest opinion of pros and cons for each....... which clubs will prevail...... let's just say I am shopping clubs for my daughters and I want to give them the best possible chance at success. What we are not hearing from our club now is any type of sales pitch on how they will sustain at their particular status right now regarding this topic and where they are headed for the future you would think we'd have a big meeting or something but parents feel like they're in the dark ....Ready ....Set .....Go....!

I would think that if your daughter is a top performer your best option would be to choose a club fielding both Academy and ECNL teams so you have the option of either one at the same club. I think it will be obvious fairly soon that the top league will be Academy, and you will only choose the lower ECNL league if your daughter has a compelling reason to do so (high school sports, choice of coach, etc.).

 

[MakeAPlay]

I would think that if your daughter is a top performer your best option would be to choose a club fielding both Academy and ECNL teams so you have the option of either one at the same club. I think it will be obvious fairly soon that the top league will be Academy, and you will only choose the lower ECNL league if your daughter has a compelling reason to do so (high school sports, choice of coach, etc.).

It remains to be seen who triumphs. The parents of the top players will decide who prevails. I know that if my player had the option she would not be playing DA. There is no advantage as playing pro is not her career aspiration and she loved playing high school soccer. I have no dog in this fight. My player is in college and her former club has DA and ECNL.

 

[meatsweats]

It remains to be seen who triumphs. The parents of the top players will decide who prevails. I know that if my player had the option she would not be playing DA. There is no advantage as playing pro is not her career aspiration and she loved playing high school soccer. I have no dog in this fight. My player is in college and her former club has DA and ECNL.

Although I agree with you to some degree, the numbers are large enough, in terms of player pool and clubs accepted, that top players might be forced to play in DA. Most kids on that level want to play with the BEST and against the BEST. Staying in ECNL (to play HS sports, etc.) might be desirable, but will it be practical? That is the big question. I think it would take a large number of top players "choosing" ECNL over DA to make any sort of difference.

Charlotte said it best above, DA will be top dog, then ECNL and so forth. Those that don't make DA, will play ECNL (or tier 1 teams if they are not with an ECNL club). And yes, there will be DA level players that "choose" ECNL based on compelling or personal reasons. Just like there are players now that could make ECNL teams, but choose to not travel or leave their non ECNL club for various reasons.

As for the top players (especially those in clubs with both ECNL and DA), it will be a personal choice. Still, the fact remains, DA will be considered the 'creme de la creme'.

 

[Round]

I predict that in 8 years there will be a whole bunch 20 to 26 year olds with a lot of regrets about how much they gave up for what really amounted to very little.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Although I agree with you to some degree, the numbers are large enough, in terms of player pool and clubs accepted, that top players might be forced to play in DA. Most kids on that level want to play with the BEST and against the BEST. Staying in ECNL (to play HS sports, etc.) might be desirable, but will it be practical? That is the big question. I think it would take a large number of top players "choosing" ECNL over DA to make any sort of difference.

Charlotte said it best above, DA will be top dog, then ECNL and so forth. Those that don't make DA, will play ECNL (or tier 1 teams if they are not with an ECNL club). And yes, there will be DA level players that "choose" ECNL based on compelling or personal reasons. Just like there are players now that could make ECNL teams, but choose to not travel or leave their non ECNL club for various reasons.

As for the top players (especially those in clubs with both ECNL and DA), it will be a personal choice. Still, the fact remains, DA will be considered the 'creme de la creme'.

I won't argue the merits of your point. With overlapping age groups this is going to be more of a mess than anything. Sitting the bench is going to be a huge thing and if you don't believe that it is the reason behind the majority of college transfers. I think that you underestimate how many will sit out. We are going into the U20 WWC as a serious underdog due to most of the players selected opting to skip it due to US soccer mandates. These are players that are much closer to being pro players (most of them will be) an they still choose to opt out. Unfortunately US soccer is disconnected from what would best serve female players and have shown no ability to successfully develop male players either.

I hope it works out. The first year it will not be the top league as the logistics will undoubtedly will not be worked out by then and all of the committed players on the DA clubs teams will be more focused on getting ready for college and the YNT players for those age groups are for the most part already identified.

I hope it works out. I will be watching to see how it goes.

 

[silverstreak]

I predict that in 8 years there will be a whole bunch 20 to 26 year olds with a lot of regrets about how much they gave up for what really amounted to very little.

Very interesting..... do you care to elaborate

 

[meatsweats]

I won't argue the merits of your point. With overlapping age groups this is going to be more of a mess than anything. Sitting the bench is going to be a huge thing and if you don't believe that it is the reason behind the majority of college transfers. I think that you underestimate how many will sit out.....

The first year it will not be the top league as the logistics will undoubtedly will not be worked out by then and all of the committed players on the DA clubs teams will be more focused on getting ready for college and the YNT players for those age groups are for the most part already identified.

I only disagree with one point. The first year will be an all in situation. There's pressure from many angles and if rumors are true and more clubs are to be added to DA, it really gets to the point that forces a shift from ECNL to DA for top teams and players. However, I think it's the SECOND and following years that might tell us more than 2017, as to whether DA can reign supreme or not. Because you're right, when kids are sitting the bench game after game, things will change quickly!! And we're talking about a LOT of kids getting little to no game time.

 

[silverstreak]

The situating scenario of sitting the bench came into play a couple times in these conversations I don't understand is that how us Academy will handle things or will ecnl Embrace players and allow them to get more playtime I see some ecnl teams rostering up heavy is that how Academy will play out

 

[meatsweats]

The situating scenario of sitting the bench came into play a couple times in these conversations I don't understand is that how us Academy will handle things or will ecnl Embrace players and allow them to get more playtime I see some ecnl teams rostering up heavy is that how Academy will play out

In theory, a higher number of players would definitely see more "game" time with ECNL.

DA will feature three combined age groups in the Girls’ Development Academy: Under-14/15, Under-16/17 and Under-18/19. 23 will be rostered for each team. Supposedly divided evenly for each birth year. Of those 23, 18 are rostered for each game. Of those 18, 11 start and 3 are subs, no re-entry. The other 4? Well, they watch and learn, I guess.

ECNL is set by year. U13, 14, 15, 16, etc. There are up to 30 on main roster, 18 rostered for each game. 7 substitutions allowed each half. No re-entry per half.

So, with year breakdown (meaning more teams) and substitution rules, yes, more players get a chance to see more game play in ECNL. BUT, that 18'th kid who is part of the 18 rostered for a game might never see the pitch. This DOES happen and especially in big game situations on ECNL teams. Don't be fooled. All ECNL coaches will tell their players and parents that game time is NOT guaranteed.

By shear numbers....it's easy to see that ECNL promises more "game" time, but DA promises more "development" (translating into training sessions). It's plain as mud, isn't it?

 

[SOCCERMINION]

One Question I have is. Will Clubs that have DA and ECNL be able to Dual Card Players on both DA and ECNL . Will we see DA, DA -Reserve, ECNL, ECNL- Reserve. Seems to me that clubs with DA and ECNL can sell it like, "Well your daughter will play ECNL and be dual carded with the DA team, she will train with the ECNL and periodicaly play for the DA, but next year she will play fulltime on the DA when she ages up next year".
With all the parents driving miles to get there child on a team with the proper Patch or Acronym. Im sure there will be some really great Marketing by the DA and ECNL Clubs to retain and get the talent going forward.

 

[meatsweats]

One Question I have is. Will Clubs that have DA and ECNL be able to Dual Card Players on both DA and ECNL . Will we see DA, DA -Reserve, ECNL, ECNL- Reserve. Seems to me that clubs with DA and ECNL can sell it like, "Well your daughter will play ECNL and be dual carded with the DA team, she will train with the ECNL and periodicaly play for the DA, but next year she will play fulltime on the DA when she ages up next year".

Short answer....NO. DA players are not allowed to play in other leagues, sports, high school, etc. It's supposed to be so that play time is regulated and players are properly rested.

 

[Round]

Very interesting..... do you care to elaborate

Not much to elaborate.

ECNL is tough enough but players can have some life outside of soccer and for some the opportunity to play college may be enough to make it worth it in the end. (not sure this really works out for even half of them) If you are in an academy program, that's it for you. No job, not trips with the family or friends, friends are all soccer players, limited exploration of life. No prom, no community, no team.

Then into college, Div. 1 is really demanding, no job, no study abroad, probably limited major choice, again limited friends, probably no good internship possibilities. In 4 years it all over, if the player is lucky enough and dedicated enough to play through college.

Then what? A year later muscle turns to fat and maybe the player wishes she did some of those things she didn't do. At least she has that quilt her uncle made out of her old championship t-shirts right?

 

[meatsweats]

I hope you're just trying to be funny Round and you aren't that cynical. While some of what you say is true, my experience has been complete opposite. Two of the most successful and strong women I know, happen to be ex D1 soccer players. One in her 40's and other in her 30's. Both very fit (LOL). One just finished her PhD and the other already has hers and is a C level at a genetics company. They also both RAVE about their college experience and are huge mentors to my DD. Because of them, her sights are set on D1 and is looking forward to the experience and challenges.

The picture you paint is pretty dreary. Not sure if you have a daughter in college or one that might attend. If you do, be sure you keep your dreary picture covered. And you might want to rethink your use of the word "limited".

 

[MR.D]

Not much to elaborate.

ECNL is tough enough but players can have some life outside of soccer and for some the opportunity to play college may be enough to make it worth it in the end. (not sure this really works out for even half of them) If you are in an academy program, that's it for you. No job, not trips with the family or friends, friends are all soccer players, limited exploration of life. No prom, no community, no team.

Then into college, Div. 1 is really demanding, no job, no study abroad, probably limited major choice, again limited friends, probably no good internship possibilities. In 4 years it all over, if the player is lucky enough and dedicated enough to play through college.

Then what? A year later muscle turns to fat and maybe the player wishes she did some of those things she didn't do. At least she has that quilt her uncle made out of her old championship t-shirts right?

Wow, way to break it down. But true.

 

[Round]

I hope you're just trying to be funny Round and you aren't that cynical. While some of what you say is true, my experience has been complete opposite. Two of the most successful and strong women I know, happen to be ex D1 soccer players. One in her 40's and other in her 30's. Both very fit (LOL). One just finished her PhD and the other already has hers and is a C level at a genetics company. They also both RAVE about their college experience and are huge mentors to my DD. Because of them, her sights are set on D1 and is looking forward to the experience and challenges.

The picture you paint is pretty dreary. Not sure if you have a daughter in college or one that might attend. If you do, be sure you keep your dreary picture covered. And you might want to rethink your use of the word "limited".

I'm nothing if not that cynical about the drivers of club soccer insanity. I'm almost done with it and have some fond feelings/memories. We need to be realistic about opportunity costs. Academy is just one more step closer to absolute insanity. I often wonder what if this time, money and effort was spent on something that really mattered.

 

[meatsweats]

I'm nothing if not that cynical about the drivers of club soccer insanity. I'm almost done with it and have some fond feelings/memories. We need to be realistic about opportunity costs. Academy is just one more step closer to absolute insanity. I often wonder what if this time, money and effort on something that really mattered.

I get what you're saying. Not sold on Academy myself. But I hate when people bring up the "be realistic about opportunity and costs". Yes, we could all take that $$ and put it in a savings and pay for our DD's edu outright. But not only are there many memories to be had, there are lessons learned, family time spent, life long friendships and mentorships. It's not all bleak. At least I hope for most.

That being said...Club soccer is pretty insane. Not all dreams are realistic. And there are costs involved, time and money wise, that for some, might have been wasted. If that's your case, I'm sorry. But as crazy as this soccer world is, I'll be sad when the day comes that my weekends are free for the foreseeable future.

 

[Round]

I get what you're saying. Not sold on Academy myself. But I hate when people bring up the "be realistic about opportunity and costs". Yes, we could all take that $$ and put it in a savings and pay for our DD's edu outright. But not only are there many memories to be had, there are lessons learned, family time spent, life long friendships and mentorships. It's not all bleak. At least I hope for most.

That being said...Club soccer is pretty insane. Not all dreams are realistic. And there are costs involved, time and money wise, that for some, might have been wasted. If that's your case, I'm sorry. But as crazy as this soccer world is, I'll be sad when the day comes that my weekends are free for the foreseeable future.

I don't know about wasted, there should be a limit, I think we have reached it. Opportunity costs aren't just about money. There are other memories you never had because you chose to have these. Your kid could have developed other talents if she didn't choose these, that's all I mean.

 

[Swoosh]

When young players make their first or second USYNT camp, will the US Soccer staff hint at where to play? Of course they will.

 

[MakeAPlay]

When young players make their first or second USYNT camp, will the US Soccer staff hint at where to play? Of course they will.

Not once has any of the YNT coaches suggested to any of the YNT players that I know where she should play. I have heard of college coaches suggesting where a player should play but never a YNT coach. Nice try. Legends will have to develop their players or recruit them early.