ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

dk_b said:
I take it that you are saying they would be materially better if they had specialized earlier. Just like discussing the opposite, it is speculation. If they had played earlier, perhaps they would have burned out, they would have been injured, they would have struggled so much or put so much pressure on themselves to be good that they would have moved on to another sport (since both are talented athletes).

At any event - GDA, ECNL, ODP, PDP (up here in NorCal) - we see talented players who play a very narrow (often it is very direct, taking advantage of speed or physical size). So many coaches want to coach that talented player and believe that they (the coaches) can be the ones to teach them tactics, discipline, the finer skills. And some of those kids NEVER learn. You will see them at 14 and 16 and they are the same kids they were at 10 or 12. Of course, we'd rarely see a kid like that on the national team unless that one characteristic - say BLAZING speed or incredible strength - will be limiting as the player gets older if she does not develop a more well-rounded game. Maybe moving to competitive at the advanced age of 14 actually allowed Morgan to develop other athletic - perhaps non-soccer - skills that have allowed her to succeed as a goal-scorer. Sure we can pick apart her game but that strikes me as silly - she's on the best goal-scorers ever (no debate on that). If someone said that your child would be one of the game's greats, beloved by fans, dozens or hundreds of caps, multiple goals in a world cup but she would not be a well-rounded player . . . would you take it? Put another way: aren't we sort of quibbling when we think about how much "better" Morgan or Mace MIGHT have been since we are really talking about marginal possibilities that these supremely talented players would be better than they are now?
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I didn't choose the examples. Those examples are the best argument for one side of the debate. But even for those examples, the relevant question is how much better they would be and whether the extra effort is really worth it. I'm sure Mace would second guess not focusing earlier if she doesn't make a world cup team. She'll have to ask herself whether HS volleyball was worth it. The margins are very small.

And if you are really arguing that playing less soccer is going to make you a better soccer player, I don't know what to say. I guess I could argue that that allowing my kid to play more video games instead of studying will make him a better student. It is possible, right? Under some theory? Of course, there are plenty of kids that went to Harvard that spent too much time playing video games in high school. But I wouldn't use them as an example of good study habits for my kids.
 
MarkM said:
I read your comments on this issue, but I don't get it. Isn't the question: How good would Morgan have been if she concentrated on soccer at a younger age and improving her technique? Same question for Mace. If you can honestly say that they would not have been materially better soccer players, I get the criticism. But I don't think you have ever offered opinion, which would be difficult to support.
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I think that she both are amazing athletes that play soccer. I do think that they could be and should be better (for different reasons). My only opinion when it comes to US Soccer is this:

1. They shouldn't have splintered the leagues
2. They should support ODP or some version of it, meaning: Have a pool of players from each state association practice regularly (maybe one weekend a month or so) and then put together a regional team for the 4 regions and have them practice quarterly and from those pools of players pick a YNT.
3. They should put funds into NWSL and these state and regional pools.
4. Players that are willing to go all in on soccer are more than welcome to but they shouldn't MAKE kids do it. Many of our WNT were multisport athletes. That is becoming much more difficult.

I think that you can train for a sport from an early age but not go all in. That should be saved for high school or later. North Carolina's keeper this year is also on the basketball team there. I just think that US Soccer should be interested in the whole person not just what they can get out of them. Nobody is going to argue that it is better for a young athlete to crosstrain.

So yes Alex Morgan might have been a slightly better soccer player by being a specialist at 10 but she might not have had the drive required (one sport burnout is real). Even Kobe Bryant played soccer. Bo Jackson played everything and even Frank Thomas played football at Auburn.

Good luck to you and your player.
 
soccerobserver said:
MM, may I submit that amazing college scholarship opportunities come from many more places than just ECNL and GDA in Socal soccer. As EOL correctly states, soccer is a fantastic way for girls/women to get into college.

I personally have seen one kid with a drug addicted mother and no Dad who got a full ride to a great college and who generated more interest from colleges than any other player on our team (mainly because she was good but she also wrote to more colleges than anyone else because she had to). She was the first in her family to ever attend college. Another got a full ride and she was also the first in her family to attend college. Family was also poor financially. Our team was not ECNL and was only in CSL Premier in the last season. We had a mix of wealthy families at one end and very poor families on the other end. Players on both ends of the financial spectrum got to play soccer in college without ECNL or GDA.
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That's wonderful to hear.
 
MarkM said:
I agree that travel is dumb. That wasn't my question. Can you point me to your examples? The only thing I saw was a reference to Ellejustus, who admits to having the resources. I missed how those are relevant to my question.
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It's still a gamble I don't want to take and I didn't last season. Stayed home from all trips as did my kid. Depending on the coach and the parents in OC it can get freaking expensive. It costs $6,000-$9,000 a year x 4= $35K+ because some of us have lots of $$$ to travel with. I don't and we chose to stay home. This new season after seeing my dd grades, our family has decided to invest some more $$$$ she can have her college paid for. We love the new rules. Don't bug us until next year and then she will take her time and visit some schools she's interested in. Then she will take a walk on the beach and make a big decision on her own. I can't wait :)
 
BigSoccer said:
Question and a point of view. If Albion is the new club in DA, how do you know they will not be competitive. I have read they have strong 05 and 06 teams in other posts. Who knows about the others?
Point.. college does not start and end at UCLA or USC or DI. What about the kids who dream of playing and are less well off who attend an NAIA school. My daughter is not on a top team an she knows it. She is good not great but plays hard. She wants to play in college and gets good grades. Are you saying the emails she is sending DIII and NAIA schools should stop as she has not shot?
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As I have said many. many times. Any player who has the desire to play in college and are willing to work for it can get there. There are many roads to Rome....
 
MarkM said:
I agree that travel is dumb. That wasn't my question. Can you point me to your examples? The only thing I saw was a reference to Ellejustus, who admits to having the resources. I missed how those are relevant to my question.
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Sure. Hailey, Haylie, Hayley, and Emma.
 
MakeAPlay said:
I think that she both are amazing athletes that play soccer. I do think that they could be and should be better (for different reasons). My only opinion when it comes to US Soccer is this:

1. They shouldn't have splintered the leagues
2. They should support ODP or some version of it, meaning: Have a pool of players from each state association practice regularly (maybe one weekend a month or so) and then put together a regional team for the 4 regions and have them practice quarterly and from those pools of players pick a YNT.
3. They should put funds into NWSL and these state and regional pools.
4. Players that are willing to go all in on soccer are more than welcome to but they shouldn't MAKE kids do it. Many of our WNT were multisport athletes. That is becoming much more difficult.

I think that you can train for a sport from an early age but not go all in. That should be saved for high school or later. North Carolina's keeper this year is also on the basketball team there. I just think that US Soccer should be interested in the whole person not just what they can get out of them. Nobody is going to argue that it is better for a young athlete to crosstrain.

So yes Alex Morgan might have been a slightly better soccer player by being a specialist at 10 but she might not have had the drive required (one sport burnout is real). Even Kobe Bryant played soccer. Bo Jackson played everything and even Frank Thomas played football at Auburn.

Good luck to you and your player.
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Nice post. Can't really say I disagree. Maybe we overemphasize the technical aspect of soccer. Some sports and some positions in those sports, don't require much more than great athleticism. The less technique they require, the longer you can wait. That said, I always presumed that you believed the US is losing ground because it is too reliant on athleticism.
 
MarkM said:
Nice post. Can't really say I disagree. Maybe we overemphasize the technical aspect of soccer. Some sports and some positions in those sports, don't require much more than great athleticism. The less technique they require, the longer you can wait. That said, I always presumed that you believed the US is losing ground because it is too reliant on athleticism.
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I think that we should spend more time on identifying the best when they are the best not when they are 12 or 14. We shouldn't designate people as something and then try to make it happen. We should invest the money into the grassroots identification and into our highest levels since, in my opinion, that is where the money can do the most good. We were solid if not outstanding technically. The real problem is tactics and personnel. Our superior athleticism has rescued us. I think that if we invest in the youth ranks and let the coaches be supported and rewarded for developing players that are technical and tactical on top of athletic, then we will reign supreme in WoSo for many years to come. We had a huge lead but we are still capable of maintaining it.
 
End of the Line said:
Sure. Hailey, Haylie, Hayley, and Emma.

As a matter of policy, I do not provide information that might allow the people who don't like me to beat the crap out of me. There are enough who already know where I live. But I don't need to provide examples, because what I say is true and everyone but you has the brain power to understand it.
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Huh? I'm just looking for generic evidence that would suggest that these leagues facilitate actual educational opportunities that would not otherwise have been provided. I get the knocks on the DA system and the reality of national team crap. But the other side that is presented about education opportunities appears to be a lot of PR spin.
 
Ellejustus said:
Those teams were 03/04. These two are good teams but they play in a very watered down developmental league.
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Aren’t most leagues watered down now? But I don’t agree with the fact you’re discounting the strength of the Quakes ‘04 team.

I don’t think you’ve played them in over 2 years.
 
Ellejustus said:
I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride. This report is a joke imo. Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program :). The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts. Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago. Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip. Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks." I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?" "They go to so and so HS." I say, "oh." But if you could read my mind, "No wonder. Your HS sucks, really, it does."
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Of your DD’s HS sucked for soccer, would you care as much?
 
Ellejustus said:
Not sure the Q. She's going to Volleyball tryouts tmrw at a very tough school. She's been practicing her serving. Don't have time to juggle right now. Her HS is awesome :)
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OK let me clarify. If your daughters high school wasn’t very good in soccer would you be as concerned about DEA not allowing high school play? Your point in your post was that most people that don’t care about high school is because their high school sucks in soccer so I wanted to ask a question if you were in that position would you care as much about it?

I know her high school is awesome.
 
Kicker4Life said:
OK let me clarify. If your daughters high school wasn’t very good in soccer would you be as concerned about DEA not allowing high school play? Your point in your post was that most people that don’t care about high school is because their high school sucks in soccer so I wanted to ask a question if you were in that position would you care as much about it?

I know her high school is awesome.
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Gotcha. It wouldn't matter because she wants to be on the track team, surf team, ASB and volleyball team. DA schedule and requirements is the problem my friend :)
 
Kicker4Life said:
Aren’t most leagues watered down now?
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We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce.

People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me? Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same. Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume. This year, the brackets included AYSO teams.

Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.
 
Dos Equis said:
We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce.

People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me? Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same. Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume. This year, the brackets included AYSO teams.

Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.
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Ooh, I really like that last sentence.
 
Dos Equis said:
Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.
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Now I now that we in NorCal can’t compete with the depth of athletic talent in SoCal but we can build some amazing sand castles. I think there’s some special humidity up here. Explains our sourdough, too.
 
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