ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

MacDre said:
My dd is going to find out 12 months from now. I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do. As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years. The coaches and US Soccer are preaching, "don't play HS Soccer or ECNL, it will hurt your dd chances of being recruited. It's funny because it's the same coaches who sold ECNL two years ago. After playing first year of DA when it started and 50/50 ECNL and DA this year, it's going to be ECNL full time for 2019-2020 as a 10th grader. I believe college coaches recruit soccer players, not teams. My dd is the one who made this decision and I'm 100% behind her. She gets to play club with friends from HS and play for her community High School. If she works hard I'm sure the same colleges who would have watched her play in the DA will also see her play in ECNL. The only one's missing are the US National Team Scouts.......lol!
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Are there really places in the USA where the “community” cares and attends female high school soccer games? If a young lady is attending an elite private school to play soccer, is that really her “community” and again, does that community legitimately care about female high school soccer? I ask because when I talk about this issue with others, they laugh at me and invariably say “dude no one cares about female high school soccer accept the girls parents.” I know the only girl in my community who’s soccer accomplishments that I’m aware of are my daughters. So, what am I missing?[/QUOTE]
Well, for her local, non private HS school its a good thing. Not saying the city shuts down to go watch the girls play but her school friends come and show up to watch. I saw it first hand and it was fun for her :)
 
Many of our HS games are full capacity in the stands at Santiago HS. CIF Div1 is a sold-out crowd which we make every year so that's where the fun comes in. The year we won Regionals (5 years ago), stands were busting from the seams, event with the $15 cover charge so yes, there is some value in HS girls soccer. I would also agree though that if your HS team can't make CIF, it's not worth it. League games are a joke most of the time since most HS teams suck.
 
From what I've seen, it varies greatly from school to school depending on all the things listed above. Some schools have robust athletic programs and some communities are much more connected to their public HS sports than others. My daughter's HS AD makes every coach in every sport engage their teams in community related projects and service hours. So there is definitely a community aspect. Yeah, most of the spectators are going to be family members, but at my kids' school a lot of the student body (friends and the boys team) will turn out for home games too. As someone else said, the game times are also great. Generally, she enjoyed the HS game atmosphere more than club, even if the soccer was bad and her coach sucked. She gained nothing soccer wise from playing HS and I would argue that it may have been slightly detrimental to her in the short run as far as technical form. She's probably even going to skip next year for that reason. But that being said, she gained a lot socially at her school from playing, and it made a positive impact in the big picture for her as a teenager dealing with teenage life. I highly recommend it as long as there is an atmosphere of support and excitement around the school's sports programs (as not every school enjoys that sort of thing).
 
Every current player on the USWNT played high school soccer. And all but 2 played college. One of those two is now regretting not playing college.
 
Mystery Train said:
From what I've seen, it varies greatly from school to school depending on all the things listed above. Some schools have robust athletic programs and some communities are much more connected to their public HS sports than others. My daughter's HS AD makes every coach in every sport engage their teams in community related projects and service hours. So there is definitely a community aspect. Yeah, most of the spectators are going to be family members, but at my kids' school a lot of the student body (friends and the boys team) will turn out for home games too. As someone else said, the game times are also great. Generally, she enjoyed the HS game atmosphere more than club, even if the soccer was bad and her coach sucked. She gained nothing soccer wise from playing HS and I would argue that it may have been slightly detrimental to her in the short run as far as technical form. She's probably even going to skip next year for that reason. But that being said, she gained a lot socially at her school from playing, and it made a positive impact in the big picture for her as a teenager dealing with teenage life. I highly recommend it as long as there is an atmosphere of support and excitement around the school's sports programs (as not every school enjoys that sort of thing).
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My family went to watch fireworks at the high school field last night. My daughter is heading off to college next month (she will be playing soccer), and I was sitting there next to her thinking about watching her score her first goal in the first game there her freshman year in a losing effort, her last goal in her last game there as a senior to secure a league title, and lots of goals there in between, including some huge goals during a CIF championship run. I was thinking about how fun her high school soccer experience was for our family. I wondered aloud she remembers the experience, especially the big games when the stands were full. She gave me a funny look and said “I never looked up at the stands.”

For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates. She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction. Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players.

Good luck to your player whatever she chooses!
 
"For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates. She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction. Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players."

Thank you for this post :) Good luck to your dd next year in college.
 
Dummy said:
My family went to watch fireworks at the high school field last night. My daughter is heading off to college next month (she will be playing soccer), and I was sitting there next to her thinking about watching her score her first goal in the first game there her freshman year in a losing effort, her last goal in her last game there as a senior to secure a league title, and lots of goals there in between, including some huge goals during a CIF championship run. I was thinking about how fun her high school soccer experience was for our family. I wondered aloud she remembers the experience, especially the big games when the stands were full. She gave me a funny look and said “I never looked up at the stands.”

For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates. She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction. Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players.

Good luck to your player whatever she chooses!
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Amen to that, our daughter played 4 years in HS and loved it. Track or volleyball 3 out of 4 years also. ECNL 2 seasons and enjoyed that as well.

She turned down mutiple offers to jump to other teams; DA, clubs and even several college acceptances. Making the decisions on her own personal beliefs, preferences, visits, and interaction with the people involved is something that has served her well.

I remembered her asking several times for advice and we always tired not to give direct recommendations or preferences but rather things to consider. Was happy with her decisions and proud she is doing well in college so far.
 
jpeter said:
Making the decisions on her own personal beliefs, preferences, visits, and interaction with the people involved is something that has served her well.

I remembered her asking several times for advice and we always tired not to give direct recommendations or preferences but rather things to consider. Was happy with her decisions and proud she is doing well in college so far.
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Well said....let the kids decide what they want to do, the cream will rise to the top. Always does, always will.
 
posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...

I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic. That's science and logic, the below is not...

Mirelle van Rijbroek is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.

“Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”
 
oh canada said:
posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...

I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic. That's science and logic, the below is not...

Mirelle van Rijbroek is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.

“Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”
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Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?
 
espola said:
Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?
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oh canada said:
posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...

I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic. That's science and logic, the below is not...

Mirelle van Rijbroek is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.

“Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”
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I can't yell enough what I have personally watched with my own eyes regarding the pressure and stress their putting on 12 and 13 year olds. "100% soccer and 100% DA or else. Why? My dd at that time wasn't even thinking she wanted to go to college (does now and is 15 and 1oth grader). She just wanted to be on a team that competes for a championship. That year we had none for our age group. So lame!!! How about this: My kid came off winning the US National Championship in July 2017. In September 2017 DA started. Fast forward to April 2018 first DA Showcase in NC. Over 100 D1 college coaches in one corner and Jill Ellis and all the US Scouts on the sideline watching my kid play and her team of other 7th and 8th graders play soccer in 32 degree weather. Sounds exciting right? Not for my kid. Too soon and too early. I like 10th grade better :)
 
A player I am quite close to - an ECNL player who committed to a Power 5 school early - went to a number of YNT camps in a row (more than 5, fewer than 10, including an international trip). Over time, the # of GDA girls went up and the # of non-GDA went down. I don't begrudge GDA/US Soccer for that because they are going to scout their own product more heavily but from watching several US scouts at prior showcases and playoffs to very few at the recent ECNL nationals (well, I saw 1 at 1 game over 5 days), it is safe to assume that an increasing number of deserving players will be overlooked simply because they don't get the eyeballs. Is that a reason for a kid to move from ECNL (or non-ECNL/non-GDA) to GDA? Well, most still won't be invited into camp but if that IS a goal and if all indicators are that a player IS or would be on US Soccer's radar, I think that is a decent reason. I do think it is unfortunate that CA players (and players in other Winter HS states) have to give up HS (playing with their friends and community DOES have value even if it is not "soccer value") since there is very little of the GDA schedule that would be missed (not sure about BDA, I have not looked at it).
 
ToonArmy said:
So they should play ECNL starting at u13 then at u16 jump to DA if they want DA?
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No. ECNL should start for 9th graders. DA should only have two teams in SoCal. Take the top 40 girls who want to go all in at 12 and 13 years old and let them do their thang. I will cheer them on all the way. Let the other girls play in a local league with zero travel except for a tournament in Vegas :)
 
dk_b said:
A player I am quite close to - an ECNL player who committed to a Power 5 school early - went to a number of YNT camps in a row (more than 5, fewer than 10, including an international trip). Over time, the # of GDA girls went up and the # of non-GDA went down. I don't begrudge GDA/US Soccer for that because they are going to scout their own product more heavily but from watching several US scouts at prior showcases and playoffs to very few at the recent ECNL nationals (well, I saw 1 at 1 game over 5 days), it is safe to assume that an increasing number of deserving players will be overlooked simply because they don't get the eyeballs. Is that a reason for a kid to move from ECNL (or non-ECNL/non-GDA) to GDA? Well, most still won't be invited into camp but if that IS a goal and if all indicators are that a player IS or would be on US Soccer's radar, I think that is a decent reason. I do think it is unfortunate that CA players (and players in other Winter HS states) have to give up HS (playing with their friends and community DOES have value even if it is not "soccer value") since there is very little of the GDA schedule that would be missed (not sure about BDA, I have not looked at it).
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It's a power play and you are just saying it in a nice way. It works for now because of the huge numerical advantage we have regarding girls soccer. The European nations are better at training their teams and eventually US Soccer leaving out some of our most talented players is going to cost us as a nation. It is already playing itself out in the YNT's performances. We didn't get out of group play at the U17 and U20 level which is absurd. US Soccer identifies players early and then lets it's lower division (D1 Soccer) train and develop the players. They clearly don't care about performance in the NWSL or other professional leagues in order to gauge player's development. Again it's a numbers game in the US so if you throw enough shit against the wall they figure enough will stick to keep us in the top 3 in the world.

Such a sad strategy.
 
espola said:
Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?
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I still have yet to read a good reason(s) to start id-ing players at 12/13/14 years old and forcing them to choose a highly specialized track (DA) or other. Some sports require it -- figure skating, gymnastics, swimming. Soccer does not. Doctors and scientists agree--15 is the age when soccer talent is identifiable and peak performance is early 20's. Not to mention the added risk of burnout or injury. Think about it...girls in DA will now be playing year-round structured/organized soccer 4x/week and 40+ games for 9 years (4 in college) before turning 21. Has anyone on this board done anything that intensely for 9 years? If you played college sports "back in the day", you likely played 2-3 sports in high school etc. I just think the law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point re practice, training, playing, and disagree with the theory of more is always better.

Postponing the "all-in" track until sophomore year (15yrs) would help somewhat.
 
Doesn’t every family have the option to make their own decisions? Parents get so wrapped up with leagues, trophies to the point they jump teams year after year buying what Coaches and Clubs are selling. We all know the rules of the game and should play accordingly.
 
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