Politics and Club BS has enter the HS scene

coachsamy said:
School Athletics aka Varsity Sports, are extracurricular school activities for the enjoyment and growth of the student athlete. You are here bashing Seniors like they don't deserve this or that? Because they can't play nor play for you in your club team?

There is a reason ALL Varsity sports have a Senior Night. Not a Freshman, or a sophomore nor a Junior. A Senior Night. Why should a Senior on their last summer needs to worry about some freshman or sophomore taking their place, when they have bigger and better things to do during that summer. Of course those freshman/sophomores are not just competing for a spot on the Varsity team, they are trying out for your club team.

I played Varsity Baseball and Basketball in HS, and comparing to the dynamics with non soccer Varsity sports that my kids play in HS, not much has changed, as far the pecking order and what not. Once you understand what Varsity sports are about, you will treat your seniors a little better.

To give you a little perspective, a friend of mine called me last week to share that his DD a good friend and former teammate of my DD made Varsity in their powerhouse school (And that school is loaded, their JV team might beat lots of Varsity teams). As we are speaking he's telling about this girl that is a senior and made the team and we both concur that it was nice to see that kid that barely got any playing time and probably will not step in the field, gets to be part of the Varsity team and enjoy her last year in HS as part of the Varsity team.
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I don't believe I was "bashing" seniors. I just commented saying that some lose interest and don't want to get better. No one DESERVES anything but like I mentioned. I have no problem putting seniors on a JV team and bringing them up on occasion and definitely bring them up for Senior Night to be with their classmates. Like you said, extracurricular school activities are for enjoyment and growth. What enjoyment and growth happens with someone sitting on the bench or cutting them completely from the program when there are other opportunities to play on another team and keep playing the sport they love?

Also mentioning that a summer program for a senior shouldn't matter because they have "bigger and better things to do..." is a choice they make. In life with choices come consequences and if a coach doesn't see enough of a player at tryouts then the summer program is a good way to evaluate the player (senior or not) and see them in more game situations. If a senior, or anyone for that matter, decides that summer or other things are more important than helping the program then why should they feel entitled to even be a part of that program? because they want to? because they are a senior?

I never said those freshman & sophomores are trying out for the club. I mentioned that there are club coaches who tell their students to do that but I am definitely not one of them. I suggest any club or rec program to all of my athletes at all levels to help them get better or just continue to get experience playing. Sometimes players aren't ready for a certain level regardless of their age so our program does the best job to keep as many as possible but making it fair.

Ideally putting a player on varsity as a senior regardless of their skill would be nice. I know in my program and many programs a player will say they are okay with little to no playing time just to have the status of varsity. As soon as they make the team their parents complain about playing time.
 
MFranco said:
I don't believe I was "bashing" seniors. I just commented saying that some lose interest and don't want to get better. No one DESERVES anything but like I mentioned. I have no problem putting seniors on a JV team and bringing them up on occasion and definitely bring them up for Senior Night to be with their classmates. Like you said, extracurricular school activities are for enjoyment and growth. What enjoyment and growth happens with someone sitting on the bench or cutting them completely from the program when there are other opportunities to play on another team and keep playing the sport they love?
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Seniors are not entitled to playing time neither is the new freshman. Why would you bring up a Senior to Senior night if they are not part of that team???? That's pretty insulting to the self esteem of that kid. The enjoyment in HS is that you are part of a team that you can enjoy with your classmates, the people that you see and live most of the day. The growth in HS is when you understand your place within teams and learn how to be supportive and be ready when call upon.
MFranco said:
Also mentioning that a summer program for a senior shouldn't matter because they have "bigger and better things to do..." is a choice they make. In life with choices come consequences and if a coach doesn't see enough of a player at tryouts then the summer program is a good way to evaluate the player (senior or not) and see them in more game situations. If a senior, or anyone for that matter, decides that summer or other things are more important than helping the program then why should they feel entitled to even be a part of that program? because they want to? because they are a senior?
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Seniors in their last summer are trying to sort out the beginning of their adulthood. College, life is coming at them, so soccer is kind of the last thing in their mind. If you as a coach don't know what type of players your seniors or any returning player is, you might need to reassess yourself and your evaluation process. Older players don't change that much.
MFranco said:
I never said those freshman & sophomores are trying out for the club. I mentioned that there are club coaches who tell their students to do that but I am definitely not one of them. I suggest any club or rec program to all of my athletes at all levels to help them get better or just continue to get experience playing. Sometimes players aren't ready for a certain level regardless of their age so our program does the best job to keep as many as possible but making it fair.
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You might not accept it, but you implied it very well. And don't worry, lots of people are doing it, because that's their only source of income...
MFranco said:
Ideally putting a player on varsity as a senior regardless of their skill would be nice. I know in my program and many programs a player will say they are okay with little to no playing time just to have the status of varsity. As soon as they make the team their parents complain about playing time.
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Parents can complaint all they want, but that's the beauty of HS Sports, parents should NOT have the same control they do in club. I laugh every time I see these helicopter parents complaining to coaches about playing time, practice time and what not, when in a few years they will be adult and they didn't learn, how to become self sufficient.

Disclaimer, I'm not talking about the Elite players nor the underachievers that go varsity sports to avoid PE and what not... Just to keep that in context.
 
El Clasico said:
As my kids went through high school, I saw plenty of seniors playing on the JV team. Most won't because they think that there is a stigma attached to it, others will to get out of PE, which is why they don't make varsity. They are joining the team, not because they are motivated and want to play but rather look to get out of something else.
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What league was that?

I have been around HS sports a long time and have never seen a Senior on JV on any sport.
 
coachsamy said:
Seniors are not entitled to playing time neither is the new freshman. Why would you bring up a Senior to Senior night if they are not part of that team???? That's pretty insulting to the self esteem of that kid. The enjoyment in HS is that you are part of a team that you can enjoy with your classmates, the people that you see and live most of the day. The growth in HS is when you understand your place within teams and learn how to be supportive and be ready when call upon.

Seniors in their last summer are trying to sort out the beginning of their adulthood. College, life is coming at them, so soccer is kind of the last thing in their mind. If you as a coach don't know what type of players your seniors or any returning player is, you might need to reassess yourself and your evaluation process. Older players don't change that much.

You might not accept it, but you implied it very well. And don't worry, lots of people are doing it, because that's their only source of income...

Parents can complaint all they want, but that's the beauty of HS Sports, parents should NOT have the same control they do in club. I laugh every time I see these helicopter parents complaining to coaches about playing time, practice time and what not, when in a few years they will be adult and they didn't learn, how to become self sufficient.

Disclaimer, I'm not talking about the Elite players nor the underachievers that go varsity sports to avoid PE and what not... Just to keep that in context.
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Think you misunderstood what I wrote but okay. I agree with the parent part you stated. As far as not bringing up a senior from JV for senior night; I feel that would be more insulting to the senior to see their senior classmates being honored in senior night and they sit or play in the JV game and go home. But every coach is different I guess.

When it comes to summer soccer...definitely did not imply that they come try out for me in club. I said alot of coaches do that but okay. The extra income is always nice but I make enough outside of soccer and so does my wife so whatever.

Older players don't change that much you are right. unfortunately the younger ones are coming in and are better. So, if a senior who has never made the varsity team thinks they will be on varsity just because they are a senior over a freshman who is more talented then they are wrong.
 
Eagle33 said:
I think you are mistaken. Seniors not allowed on any level but varsity in all HS sports.
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Check the rule books. Seniors run JV Cross Country and Track. That’s the beauty of those sports - No BS politics - either an athlete has the times required to compete at the Varsity level or they don’t.
 
Eagle33 said:
I guess San Diego section is very different for the rest
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In my experience with High School sports, Seniors were never allowed to play JV. If San Diego allows it, it is very different.

For example, here are the eligibility rules for a league in NorCal:
"Senior athletes are not eligible for Junior Varsity competition and shall not play on any JV team in any sport. Exceptions: Cross Country (see the Cross Country By-Laws for specific details) and by consent of the League Commissioner."

http://www.wcalsports.org/docs/handbook/Article V - Eligibility.pdf
 
davin said:
In my experience with High School sports, Seniors were never allowed to play JV. If San Diego allows it, it is very different.

For example, here are the eligibility rules for a league in NorCal:
"Senior athletes are not eligible for Junior Varsity competition and shall not play on any JV team in any sport. Exceptions: Cross Country (see the Cross Country By-Laws for specific details) and by consent of the League Commissioner."

http://www.wcalsports.org/docs/handbook/Article V - Eligibility.pdf
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Those rules appear specific to the league and not the broader umbrella of CIF. Certainly each section or more specifically leagues have their own rules.
 
Mom Taxi said:
Those rules appear specific to the league and not the broader umbrella of CIF. Certainly each section or more specifically leagues have their own rules.
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Yeah. I know the rules are specific to the league, but all of the leagues I'm familiar with have the similar rules about Seniors on JV.

Here's another one: "The definition of F/S boys’ means only freshmen and/or sophomores may compete on a team with this classification. The definition of JV (boys & girls) means only freshmen, sophomores, and juniors may participate on that team with this classification. No seniors may compete on a F/S or JV team unless outlined specifically in that sports by-laws with regard to tournament play only."

http://bval.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BVAL-Constitution-8.27.18.pdf
 
Mom Taxi said:
Those rules appear specific to the league and not the broader umbrella of CIF. Certainly each section or more specifically leagues have their own rules.
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Or the school. Our HS coach wouldn't put any Seniors on JV, but he did keep 16 Seniors on the Varsity roster, some of whom rarely played and never started until Senior Night.
 
davin said:
Yeah. I know the rules are specific to the league, but all of the leagues I'm familiar with have the similar rules about Seniors on JV.

Here's another one: "The definition of F/S boys’ means only freshmen and/or sophomores may compete on a team with this classification. The definition of JV (boys & girls) means only freshmen, sophomores, and juniors may participate on that team with this classification. No seniors may compete on a F/S or JV team unless outlined specifically in that sports by-laws with regard to tournament play only."

http://bval.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BVAL-Constitution-8.27.18.pdf
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Got it. But have you read CIF’s rules pertaining to eligibility? Just b/c certain leagues have specific rules it doesn’t mean in other leagues Seniors aren’t allowed to participate in JV competition. California is a very big state after all.
 
Mom Taxi said:
Got it. But have you read CIF’s rules pertaining to eligibility?
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No, I haven't read the CIF's rule. I don't doubt that the CIF doesn't have specific language barring Seniors from playing JV.

My point is that from all my experience with HS sport, Seniors are not typically allowed to compete on JV. It may not be against CIF rules for Senior to compete at the JV level, but in practice(because of league rules or any other reason) it normally doesn't happen.
 
davin said:
No, I haven't read the CIF's rule. I don't doubt that the CIF doesn't have specific language barring Seniors from playing JV.

My point is that from all my experience with HS sport, Seniors are not typically allowed to compete on JV. It may not be against CIF rules for Senior to compete at the JV level, but in practice(because of league rules or any other reason) it normally doesn't happen.
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Right, but my point is that just b/c it doesn’t happen often doesn’t mean it’s not allowed. Especially since there are coaches and parents on this forum stating it does happen and it is allowed.
 
Mom Taxi said:
Check the rule books. Seniors run JV Cross Country and Track. That’s the beauty of those sports - No BS politics - either an athlete has the times required to compete at the Varsity level or they don’t.
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Love those sports and their dynamics are great. The kids are very supportive and the encouraging conversations they engage at the check in line after finishing the race speaks volumes about the culture of those sports!
espola said:
Or the school. Our HS coach wouldn't put any Seniors on JV, but he did keep 16 Seniors on the Varsity roster, some of whom rarely played and never started until Senior Night.
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Do you believe that in today's landscape where club is priority #1, coaches are going to take care of Seniors. It would be nice that Seniors would still be given their place...
 
MFranco said:
Unless rules have changed where does it say a senior cant play JV. A student cant play on a freshman team once they've reached their 16th birthday. A player who turns 19 cannot play. A player cannot play on a "sophomore" or "frosh/soph" team if they turn 17 before June.

But where does it say a senior cant be on a JV team? A lot of coaches tell players and parents this to give them an excuse to cut the player. They say things like "you know seniors cant be on JV so if you aren't ready for varsity we will have to cut you...so come join my club team so we can get you better" then the favoritism comes into play at that point.
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What league do you coach in?
 
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