Subject: SCDSL Discovery Division parent, coach and player sideline behavior - PLEASE READ AND PASS

Toch said:

Seems like you want to justify some bad behavior. Hopefully the parent who had the ref in a headlock & the coach who harassed the young ref were arrested

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Justify?? I don't think so! Everyone needs to take ownership of their actions and that also includes the league. If a parent or coach put hands on anyone that's not acceptable and is a battery charge. Agree with you 100% there. However, if the league isn't ensuring they have the right skill set managing the game, that lands in their hands hence mutual ownership. Control what's yours to control. Neither side is immune. That email was very emotionally one sided. This wasn't an isolated incident to the game your post references. In the game I saw the ref and ar actually stepped as far away as they could from 14 year old girls getting into a hair pulling scuffle and did nothing. Not a word said as it was happening. League officials had to run onto the field the get in the middle of it. It escalated to that point by taking zero action. Justifying....... Yea I don't think so.

There is should definitely be mutual ownership for those scenarios described. Parents, coaches, and players all have a code of conduct they need to adhere to and that behavior cant be condoned but leagues have to also take ownership of their product which includes venues, refs, etc. No excuse for that stuff but the leagues have to do a better job at grading/rating refs if that's one of the drivers in the email. There is zero recourse for those who invest thousands into the product. Once a kid gets hurt due to a foul or from an altercation its too late to say we are dealing with the refs. Hopefully that level setting isn't just directed to those on one side of that equation but a reflection in the mirror of how to improve the product for all involved. Police yourself before you attempt to police others. Parents be the example!

The site loads just about everything

jpeter said:

Yeah that may be true but there is a big flaw in how they do rankings when a bronze CSL team is ranked #6 due to beating up the easiest comp around for 6 games, just saying.

That and only taking or loading rankings from certain leagues games and ignoring others does not make for a good comparsion or realistic rankings Imo. Obviously most of these are hostical rankings cumulative so that is skewed also for new teams like the above example or those that play more or in the events that are tracked regularly (CRl, CSL, Nat cup)

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As to the team in question, with only 6 games to work with, you can expect a teams rankings to be inaccurate.The main problem in that instance only 2 of their listed opponents have any history out of league this year, and it is likely one or both of them is mis-assigned. If you care about that particular division, do the work to get the teams straightened out. I definitely agree there is a problem there. As you correctly point out, a B03 State Cup Governor's/CSL Bronze team shouldn't be ranked that high.

While I can't speak for DA and other leagues, the site does bring in most league management systems that a vast majority of the teams play in. Personally, I'm not interested in seeing what some system or algorithm has my kid's team ranked. I just like that it is a convenient way to have an initial impression of an upcoming opponent and is a aggregation of who they've played, where they played and how they did, which is important. The ranking does provide a way to gauge the team's progress from a 10,000' foot level, but a team's quality comes down to who you play, how you play them, and where you finish in major competitions.

I'm not saying the site is perfect, but it is the best thing available and, while it sounds like it is new to you, it has been around for a while. Chris took the site down a year ago and there was a major uproar and groundswell movement to bring it back. Please work to be a part of the solution to the problems that you are concerned with.

SoccerFan4Life said:

It really depends on each age group. For example in rhe 2003 age group, only 6 of the top 30 teams ranked in youthsoccer.com come from SCDSL. I think it's just 1 of the top 10 as well.

In this group CSL is by far the better league. Flight 2 is equivalent to Silver and flight 1 Europa is about a Silver Elite.

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In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??

RedCard said:

In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??

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That's very odd. Surf was my older DDs old team and it was cool to be able to look in on their scores w/o bothering other parents with text messages. Beach DA and Eagles DA remain but you're right about Surf, Albion, Galaxy and others. Hopefully just a glitch and they'll be back as that site had the most accurate rankings by far.....but wouldn't be surprised if US Soccer sent a threatening email as they don't like their golden geese to be ranked below the riffraff!

futboldad1 said:

That's very odd. Surf was my older DDs old team and it was cool to be able to look in on their scores w/o bothering other parents with text messages. Beach DA and Eagles DA remain but you're right about Surf, Albion, Galaxy and others. Hopefully just a glitch and they'll be back as that site had the most accurate rankings by far.....but wouldn't be surprised if US Soccer sent a threatening email as they don't like their golden geese to be ranked below the riffraff!

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Beach and Eagles were the only two without the “DA” or “Developmental Academy” attached to their name so whoever looks at this probably thought they were a SCDSL or CSL team.

GunninGopher said:

The site loads just about everything


As to the team in question, with only 6 games to work with, you can expect a teams rankings to be inaccurate.The main problem in that instance only 2 of their listed opponents have any history out of league this year, and it is likely one or both of them is mis-assigned. If you care about that particular division, do the work to get the teams straightened out. I definitely agree there is a problem there. As you correctly point out, a B03 State Cup Governor's/CSL Bronze team shouldn't be ranked that high.

While I can't speak for DA and other leagues, the site does bring in most league management systems that a vast majority of the teams play in. Personally, I'm not interested in seeing what some system or algorithm has my kid's team ranked. I just like that it is a convenient way to have an initial impression of an upcoming opponent and is a aggregation of who they've played, where they played and how they did, which is important. The ranking does provide a way to gauge the team's progress from a 10,000' foot level, but a team's quality comes down to who you play, how you play them, and where you finish in major competitions.

I'm not saying the site is perfect, but it is the best thing available and, while it sounds like it is new to you, it has been around for a while. Chris took the site down a year ago and there was a major uproar and groundswell movement to bring it back. Please work to be a part of the solution to the problems that you are concerned with.

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Plays on combined age group team so calendar year rankings are not something that we normally look at.

Missing Scdsl, Ussda ~ 2017, and other league games, plus tournaments not gotsoccer indicates this has limited scope which is fine at least people like it for what it is.

Guess we're going have to see what the new rankings top drawer soccer comes up with for the combined age groups, da, and others.

jpeter said:

Plays on combined age group team so calendar year rankings are not something that we normally look at.

Missing Scdsl, Ussda ~ 2017, and other league games, plus tournaments not gotsoccer indicates this has limited scope which is fine at least people like it for what it is.

Guess we're going have to see what the new rankings top drawer soccer comes up with for the combined age groups, da, and others.

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Those will be added later. 2017 is accounted for. He has to custom import leagues that use weird systems. SCDSL's is the worst.

MA0812 said:

.........In the game I saw the ref and ar actually stepped as far away as they could from 14 year old girls getting into a hair pulling scuffle and did nothing. Not a word said as it was happening. League officials had to run onto the field the get in the middle of it. It escalated to that point by taking zero action........

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I am only going to reply to a small portion of your post. By moving/stepping away from the fight/altercation, the referees did exactly what is taught to all referees by US Soccer and the Cal South instructors. Referees should never lay hands on a youth player and never get in the middle of a fight. There have been several referees over the past couple years that have been seriously injured, including one traumatic brain injury, because they attempted to get between players fighting and got hit. My job as a referee is to initially blow the whistle really loud a couple times, back away so I have a good view of the entire scene, and start taking notes. The AR's will also start taking notes. 99 percent of the time that really loud whistle blown a couple times will either bring the fighting players to their senses or cause teammates to jump in and pull the players apart. If more players jump into the fight and it is getting out of control, then the coaches can come on and try to break it up. If four of more players get into a fight then I will issue the Red cards and may abandon the game. I have never had more than two players get into a fight and it was always broken up quickly by teammates after I blew the whistle a couple times. I talk to my AR's, Red cards were issued, and coaches and captains warned to control their players.

I am not sure why league (SCDSL) officials would risk the liability to run onto the field and touch youth players. Let the coaches police their players.

Banana Hammock said:

There were four refers at the Discovery games on Sunday. The fourth ref sat a midfield during the game, taking notes. I noticed that they rotated the position of one game to the next.

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Ah so the 4th ref was just a note taker and didn't help out the others? such as supervising the subings? Or advising the the crew on decisions where they might have seem something that was missed?

Kind of sounds like they where more of Observers than real 4th assistant.

jpeter said:

Ah so the 4th ref was just a note taker and didn't help out the others? such as supervising the subings? Or advising the the crew on decisions where they might have seem something that was missed?

Kind of sounds like they where more of Observers than real 4th assistant.

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The fourth ref sat right between the two teams. I didn't see him have interaction during the game but I did see them discussing his notes with the center ref after the game at their tent.

RedCard said:

In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??

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Looks like the DA teams are back now

Youthsocceranking is not perfect but it's definitely good enough. You beat a bad team by 1 goal, you move down in rankings, you lose to a top team by a goal and you move up a little.
Given that it's free, let's not complain too much because they will shut it down and I will not know what to do since I check that site every week.

My kids team is ranked in the 60's and they were in the 90's 2 years ago. We moved up when we lost 2-1 to a top 20 ranked team and we moved down a lot when we won 2-1 against a team ranked in the 180's. Makes sense to me.

SoccerFan4Life said:

Youthsocceranking is not perfect but it's definitely good enough. You beat a bad team by 1 goal, you move down in rankings, you lose to a top team by a goal and you move up a little.
Given that it's free, let's not complain too much because they will shut it down and I will not know what to do since I check that site every week.

My kids team is ranked in the 60's and they were in the 90's 2 years ago. We moved up when we lost 2-1 to a top 20 ranked team and we moved down a lot when we won 2-1 against a team ranked in the 180's. Makes sense to me.

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Totally agree. Most of those complaining are doing so because their DDs team is not ranked as high as they think should be, you know because YRS is based on comprehensive results over multiple seasons rather than pure parental emotion.

futboldad1 said:

Totally agree. Most of those complaining are doing so because their DDs team is not ranked as high as they think should be, you know because YRS is based on comprehensive results over multiple seasons rather than pure parental emotion.

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Now _that_ would be interesting. You give teams extra points for the number of times parents check their ranking. And you could have a sideline mic to measure how hard the parents cheer.

Banana Hammock said:

The fourth ref sat right between the two teams. I didn't see him have interaction during the game but I did see them discussing his notes with the center ref after the game at their tent.

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As a 4th, I keep track of all the fouls. I tell the ref at half time how many fouls he called for each team, and if 1 person committed more than one foul. I also record the nature of the foul: push, pull, trip, etc. Most refs find this to be extremely useful information at halftime.

4th officials can also make foul calls, provided that the center makes eye contact with the 4th at regular intervals. Comms help involve the 4th more. I have seen a 4th single handedly issue a red card (without comms.) after he told the center that a player deliberately stepped on a player on the ground after the victim crossed a long ball and fell down. The center was 40 yards away keeping up with play on the other side of the field, AR1 was busy judging offside, and AR2 was 60 yards away on the other side. Only the 4th could have ever made that call.

My personal favorite use of the 4th is when I am center and the coach is getting a little out of control over a call. I will straight up run past him and ignore the coach and then explain my call and reasoning to the 4th official. Then I run back to start play without ever acknowledging the coach and have him debate it out with the 4th.

Definitelynotanotherref said:

As a 4th, I keep track of all the fouls. I tell the ref at half time how many fouls he called for each team, and if 1 person committed more than one foul. I also record the nature of the foul: push, pull, trip, etc. Most refs find this to be extremely useful information at halftime.

4th officials can also make foul calls, provided that the center makes eye contact with the 4th at regular intervals. Comms help involve the 4th more. I have seen a 4th single handedly issue a red card (without comms.) after he told the center that a player deliberately stepped on a player on the ground after the victim crossed a long ball and fell down. The center was 40 yards away keeping up with play on the other side of the field, AR1 was busy judging offside, and AR2 was 60 yards away on the other side. Only the 4th could have ever made that call.

My personal favorite use of the 4th is when I am center and the coach is getting a little out of control over a call. I will straight up run past him and ignore the coach and then explain my call and reasoning to the 4th official. Then I run back to start play without ever acknowledging the coach and have him debate it out with the 4th.

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Deliberately?