Ref involvement in a fight

Penalty Kicks Stink

Penalty Kicks Stink

SILVER ELITE
Wanted to get an idea from the experts on how a referee should handle or intervene in a brawl situation.

My DD team recently had a situation where 2 girls starting pushing each other and that turned into punches thrown and benches clearing and a giant dogpile.

The referee of this game was a young kid who basically sat and watched as the two girls began to throw punches and the benches cleared. I know they are not allowd to touch the kids but this guy didnt blow a whistle the AR's were trying to keep the parents off the field who were screaming at the ref to do something. finally the coaches had to break up the fight and then it took the ref about 10 minutes to pull out the red cards fofr both players.

The whole thing could have been avoided if the ref had done something in my opinion.

Just wanted to see from the experts what the protocal should be
 
Penalty Kicks Stink said:
Wanted to get an idea from the experts on how a referee should handle or intervene in a brawl situation.

My DD team recently had a situation where 2 girls starting pushing each other and that turned into punches thrown and benches clearing and a giant dogpile.

The referee of this game was a young kid who basically sat and watched as the two girls began to throw punches and the benches cleared. I know they are not allowd to touch the kids but this guy didnt blow a whistle the AR's were trying to keep the parents off the field who were screaming at the ref to do something. finally the coaches had to break up the fight and then it took the ref about 10 minutes to pull out the red cards fofr both players.

The whole thing could have been avoided if the ref had done something in my opinion.

Just wanted to see from the experts what the protocal should be
Click to expand...

Got a video?
 
For what it's worth, this was one of the situations on my level 8 field session last year. They told us don't enter the scrum, don't touch the kids, blow the whistle, try to keep others out of it, if the situation is out of control signal the field monitor to call for assistance.
 
Touching the kids involved in a fight could put the safety of the referee in danger, as kids are swinging away, touching the kids could be considered as 'assault' by the referee, and the referee could enter a liability area, if touching the player distracts them and they get punched by their attacker, causing injury. The most that you can do is blow the whistle loudly and yell at them to stop. Parents may also charge onto the field to stop the fight, by pulling their child away, or in some cases, attacking the player that is attacking their child. You then end up with the other parent coming onto the field, to attack the parent, who is attacking their child. Things can get messy. It is best to send for a field marshal, if you know one is present, Needless to say, both players would need to be ejected, and do not let them get into the handshake line, at the end of the game. If a parent went after a player, they have to leave the field and are done for the day. This would have to be noted on the game card, with their name and team that they were with, and why they were ejected, for action to be taken by the league/club. I have seen where things start all over again, if an ejected player is allowed to do the handshakes, and they come to the player that they had issues with. While an ejected player does not have to leave the field, they can be not allowed to be in the handshake line, for the safety of the all concerned. Their capability of being on the field, to take part in a game activity ended when they were ejected.
 
Referees shouldn't intervene, especially once idiot family members enter the field. If there is an active fight, the referee could summon the coaches to stop the fighting.

For you to expect a young kid to stop a fight among players is silly. These melees usually involve spectators that are accustomed to, and comfortable with, fighting in their daily lives.
 
The assignor I work with made it very clear at our last monthly meeting which was right before the season, if there's a fight, the coaches are the ones to stop it. Never everrrrrrr touch and/or pull the kids away from a fight.

Speaking of fights, there was a nice grown up vs grown up fight on the field before my son's game in Apple Valley earlier today. And I think they were both from the same team. Sad thing, one of the girls who just play was begging one of the grown ups to stop. Sad to see that.
 
RedCard said:
The assignor I work with made it very clear at our last monthly meeting which was right before the season, if there's a fight, the coaches are the ones to stop it. Never everrrrrrr touch and/or pull the kids away from a fight.

Speaking of fights, there was a nice grown up vs grown up fight on the field before my son's game in Apple Valley earlier today. And I think they were both from the same team. Sad thing, one of the girls who just play was begging one of the grown ups to stop. Sad to see that.
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The first game of a season many years ago (and likely the first game ever for some of the players) 2 players on the same team got into a kid-fight arguing over who was responsible for letting in a goal. The ref red-carded them both and then declared that the game time had run out.
 
Issue we had was the ref didnt blow any whistles, the AR's stood and watched. Parents were screaming at refs to do something and it tooks all the other girls to break it up before the coaches could get there
 
Penalty Kicks Stink said:
Issue we had was the ref didnt blow any whistles, the AR's stood and watched. Parents were screaming at refs to do something and it tooks all the other girls to break it up before the coaches could get there
Click to expand...

If I am the Center Referee, I may blow the whistle as loud as possible a few times then I will back away and take notes. In my pre-game I tell my ARs to just take notes, so we eject the correct players. Usually the teammates will break up the players fighting. I don’t mind if the coaches come out, but I am not getting near the fight. I know many referees that will just blow the whistle once then back away and take notes.

Referees should not get involved and are not required to blow the whistle more than once to stop play. ARs are to observe and to take notes to help the CR.

This link discusses mass confrontation(fight) and what the AR did incorrectly.
http://proreferees.com/2017/06/28/play-of-the-week-17-mass-confrontation/
 
espola said:
The first game of a season many years ago (and likely the first game ever for some of the players) 2 players on the same team got into a kid-fight arguing over who was responsible for letting in a goal. The ref red-carded them both and then declared that the game time had run out.
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This (sadly) made me chuckle. How much time was actually left on the clock?

We have some occasional “come to Jesus” yelling after a mistake (personal accountably can be lacking) but it’s over quick and usually everyone is besties at the next well placed run, cross or goal.
 
Penalty Kicks Stink said:
Wanted to get an idea from the experts on how a referee should handle or intervene in a brawl situation.

My DD team recently had a situation where 2 girls starting pushing each other and that turned into punches thrown and benches clearing and a giant dogpile.

The referee of this game was a young kid who basically sat and watched as the two girls began to throw punches and the benches cleared. I know they are not allowd to touch the kids but this guy didnt blow a whistle the AR's were trying to keep the parents off the field who were screaming at the ref to do something. finally the coaches had to break up the fight and then it took the ref about 10 minutes to pull out the red cards fofr both players.

The whole thing could have been avoided if the ref had done something in my opinion.

Just wanted to see from the experts what the protocal should be
Click to expand...
so the ref is responsible for the fighting, not the players who decided to throw blows? poor behavior is the fault of the people who exhibit it, not someone else.
 
Penalty Kicks Stink said:
Issue we had was the ref didnt blow any whistles, the AR's stood and watched. Parents were screaming at refs to do something and it tooks all the other girls to break it up before the coaches could get there
Click to expand...

There is a clear line here and it, sadly, is representative of our society as a whole now days. You have a few kids lacking civility (yes, I realize that you can lose your temper and lash out/foul but a full on brawl is different) and start full on fighting on the field, during the game and then you have the parents that raised those same savages complaining that someone ELSE didn't do anything about it. Talk about a Lack of Responsibility for our own actions - the kids for fighting and the parents who raised them this way. In my opinion, refs should be invisible, meaning that good call or bad, we focus on our game. Ref doesn't decide the game, the players/coaches do, which is why you haven't see me ever taking sides for or against a refs on this board but to blame the above stated scenario on the refs is a big fat snowflake joke. Do your job as a parent and quit crying.
 
Penalty Kicks Stink said:
The referee of this game was a young kid who basically sat and watched as the two girls began to throw punches and the benches cleared. I know they are not allowd to touch the kids but this guy didnt blow a whistle the AR's were trying to keep the parents off the field who were screaming at the ref to do something. finally the coaches had to break up the fight and then it took the ref about 10 minutes to pull out the red cards fofr both players.
The whole thing could have been avoided if the ref had done something in my opinion. Just wanted to see from the experts what the protocal should be
Click to expand...
We are instructed officially to not physically intervene. There is a story last year from the Saltan Sea area of a female referee taking a punch to the face because a 17 y/o boy missed his punch and hit her as she tried to step in between them

There are psychological findings that if you just loudly blow a whistle, you actually just add to the confusion and chaos and make things worse. It's like when the fire alarm goes off at school, even if it is just a drill, you mind still panics for a bit and your heart rate noticeably quickens.
The loud noise from a whistle just triggers that fight or flight mechanism in the brain. If they are brawling, you think a loud whistle will make them stop?

Of course, there are steps a referee can take to PREVENT a fight, but once it occurs, then we just write down numbers of who does what and then we report it.

The message you send when you blow your whistle repeatedly:
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Well that’s awkward.

Last time we (coaches) talked about it we had a scenario presented to us where a kid from team A was on top of a kid from team B and swinging away. We were told if team A kid isn’t our player to not intervene because touching that kid could cause us some big issues. We were then told if team A kid was our player to have a teammate get them off the other player. Basically in both instances we were told not to touch anyone and let the referees and players handle it while we manages the parents and other players.

There are so many medical, legal, and gaming ramifications that go into it that this is a really tough one.
 
ajaffe said:
Well that’s awkward.

Last time we (coaches) talked about it we had a scenario presented to us where a kid from team A was on top of a kid from team B and swinging away. We were told if team A kid isn’t our player to not intervene because touching that kid could cause us some big issues. We were then told if team A kid was our player to have a teammate get them off the other player. Basically in both instances we were told not to touch anyone and let the referees and players handle it while we manages the parents and other players.

There are so many medical, legal, and gaming ramifications that go into it that this is a really tough one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for my level 8 we were told not to involve the coaches for the same reason plus coaches coming off might get other adults into the mix too. But I can't see how a coach instructing a player to intervene is any better. Player goes into the scrum at coaches instruction, player gets whacked on the head, club gets sued since it was at the instruction of the coach telling the player to enter a dangerous situation. Maybe under the theory that a lawsuit is better than getting arrested for handling a minor? Still, if it's really coming to that, maybe it's necessary for every game now to have a field monitor present (our AYSO region and neighboring ones require one for every field)? Maybe recording of games too?
 
ajaffe said:
Well that’s awkward.

Last time we (coaches) talked about it we had a scenario presented to us where a kid from team A was on top of a kid from team B and swinging away. We were told if team A kid isn’t our player to not intervene because touching that kid could cause us some big issues. We were then told if team A kid was our player to have a teammate get them off the other player. Basically in both instances we were told not to touch anyone and let the referees and players handle it while we manages the parents and other players.

There are so many medical, legal, and gaming ramifications that go into it that this is a really tough one.
Click to expand...
i guess the coaches need to lay down the law to the players. don't swing on other players? or not only will you be suspended three plus games by the league, but you won't play on my team no mo..... i know a blanket like that isn't exactly reasonable. what if the other guy/girl hits me first and all. but, i would still set that as my policy if i was a coach or DOC. but i'm not. i'm a referee. and once they start engaging, i really can't do much. one time i grabbed a kid by the shoulder as he was heading to deck some other kid. got my hand slapped pretty hard.
 
Grace T. said:
Still, if it's really coming to that, maybe it's necessary for every game now to have a field monitor present (our AYSO region and neighboring ones require one for every field)? Maybe recording of games too?
Click to expand...
or...... have the players not fight.
 
baldref said:
i guess the coaches need to lay down the law to the players. don't swing on other players? or not only will you be suspended three plus games by the league, but you won't play on my team no mo..... i know a blanket like that isn't exactly reasonable. what if the other guy/girl hits me first and all. but, i would still set that as my policy if i was a coach or DOC. but i'm not. i'm a referee. and once they start engaging, i really can't do much. one time i grabbed a kid by the shoulder as he was heading to deck some other kid. got my hand slapped pretty hard.
Click to expand...

This is all true and is assuming a worst case scenario of course.

I just can’t imagine having to sit there and watch one of my players go crazy or get thwomped and hope I never have to. But it could happen and it’s a tough one to try and prepare for both procedurally and mentally.
 
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