Suckers

Azzurri

SILVER
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...0814-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Here’s how it goes: You sign up your kid for rec soccer at age 6, just to get them outside running around, innocently wanting them to absorb the values of team sports.

At 8, acting on the universal fear of parents not wanting their kid to fall behind, you join a club. It costs $1,200 to $1,500 per year, plus another couple hundred for tournaments, plus the hidden cost of gas and hotels for that out-of-town tournament so you can tell your friends your kid is on a “travel team,” plus $12 to park at some venues. You also might hire private coaches at $50 or $100 per hour.

At 10, you are recruited to a more prestigious, more expensive club loaded with big, strong kids that has better chance of winning State Cups, since most parents, not versed in the nuances of the sport, equate trophies with development.

At 13, if your kid is good enough, you make a team in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy. It costs $2,500 to $3,000 per year, and the travel can double or triple that amount. You practice four days a week, take plane trips for some away games, aren’t guaranteed playing time on rosters that can be as large as 24, are discouraged from playing other sports and are forbidden from playing high school soccer.

Pay even more to play.

And here’s what we get:
 
...And yes, they cash my checks because I’m a sucker, too.”

stupidity.jpg
 
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...0814-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Here’s how it goes: You sign up your kid for rec soccer at age 6, just to get them outside running around, innocently wanting them to absorb the values of team sports.

At 8, acting on the universal fear of parents not wanting their kid to fall behind, you join a club. It costs $1,200 to $1,500 per year, plus another couple hundred for tournaments, plus the hidden cost of gas and hotels for that out-of-town tournament so you can tell your friends your kid is on a “travel team,” plus $12 to park at some venues. You also might hire private coaches at $50 or $100 per hour.

At 10, you are recruited to a more prestigious, more expensive club loaded with big, strong kids that has better chance of winning State Cups, since most parents, not versed in the nuances of the sport, equate trophies with development.

At 13, if your kid is good enough, you make a team in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy. It costs $2,500 to $3,000 per year, and the travel can double or triple that amount. You practice four days a week, take plane trips for some away games, aren’t guaranteed playing time on rosters that can be as large as 24, are discouraged from playing other sports and are forbidden from playing high school soccer.

Pay even more to play.

And here’s what we get:
Funny that there is a thread about the 40+ miles travel for tier3 recreational games full of people defending it...
 
A dad approached me at back to school night recently. He asked me to join Indian Guides. I was already against that but entertained him to be polite. Then he told me the price tag; $2000.

I’m happy my money is spent on a soccer field. I get to work on my tan, I get to watch my kid laugh. I get to watch my kid be athletic.
 
I’m happy my money is spent on a soccer field. I get to work on my tan, I get to watch my kid laugh. I get to watch my kid be athletic.
+1

My colleague's kid got a rowing scholarship from a UC school a few years back. It's certainly a great achievement for the kid and the dad couldn't have been more proud. But as the dad often told me "it's the most boring thing you can ever do with your kids".

I'm always thankful that my kids love soccer.
 
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...0814-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Here’s how it goes: You sign up your kid for rec soccer at age 6, just to get them outside running around, innocently wanting them to absorb the values of team sports.

At 8, acting on the universal fear of parents not wanting their kid to fall behind, you join a club. It costs $1,200 to $1,500 per year, plus another couple hundred for tournaments, plus the hidden cost of gas and hotels for that out-of-town tournament so you can tell your friends your kid is on a “travel team,” plus $12 to park at some venues. You also might hire private coaches at $50 or $100 per hour.

At 10, you are recruited to a more prestigious, more expensive club loaded with big, strong kids that has better chance of winning State Cups, since most parents, not versed in the nuances of the sport, equate trophies with development.

At 13, if your kid is good enough, you make a team in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy. It costs $2,500 to $3,000 per year, and the travel can double or triple that amount. You practice four days a week, take plane trips for some away games, aren’t guaranteed playing time on rosters that can be as large as 24, are discouraged from playing other sports and are forbidden from playing high school soccer.

Pay even more to play.

And here’s what we get:

Reading that article, it was like he's a poster on this forum or something... or went on this forum and stole all our hot takes on youth soccer! I was plagiarized! :D
 
Excellent article. And if you're feeling offended by it, you're missing the point. This is about how we find and train the top talent, the unicorns, that comprise our national teams. The excuse *forever* on the boy's side is we don't have the top athletes because they play football, basketball, etc. But now that the women are losing? We can't use that same excuse. Our system is flawed, on many levels, and as long as it stays the same, we will continue to lose games on both the men's and the women's sides.
 
It was actually written because of a tweet from Julie Foudy

From the writer:
@JulieFoudy You wanted to discuss, so I discussed.

From Julie Foudy:
“Bless you for writing @sdutzeigler. I want to staple it to my forehead and have every parent, club official, coach, US Soccer representative read it. PAY to PLAY is broken. Such an important read. Please take the 7 min's to do so. “

Pay to play is broken. Says the lady who charges $400 for a day camp. (Not saying it’s not a great camp. And might be worth the money. But she’s probably making some money off of this.
 
Last edited:
Excellent article. And if you're feeling offended by it, you're missing the point. This is about how we find and train the top talent, the unicorns, that comprise our national teams. The excuse *forever* on the boy's side is we don't have the top athletes because they play football, basketball, etc. But now that the women are losing? We can't use that same excuse. Our system is flawed, on many levels, and as long as it stays the same, we will continue to lose games on both the men's and the women's sides.

On the women's side the rest of the world was always bound to catch up. Europe has gone from women shouldn't play sport to embracing them into their soccer culture. Soccer is a game about mistakes. One little mistake from one player and that's it. It's why a powerhouse like Italy misses the world cup, why Germany got eliminated in the first round, and why Spain set a possession record but couldn't put it away. The same gap is being closed elsewhere in Olympic competition too (we can debate the impact of Title IX as well, but the main thing was always culture...until recently the rest of the world didn't believe women should play sports).

As I've written before, I think the main culprit is still college (and why most of us have our players playing). We aren't trying to build a men's (or women's) squad. We are trying to build college athletes, which is fine if that as soccer nation is what we want. I just watched a documentary on China (link to an episode below)....China has similar ambitions to us to become competitive (while we are in Europe's shadow, they are in the shadow of the Japanese and Koreans). One of the things they are struggling with is coaches...it's why they can't build up their player base and are having to import coaches into their academies...they have an academy system but not a broad base of players (like our AYSO or Europe's rec leagues) from which to draw players. And they can't really build the rec system because the parents don't play and they have very little time to coach. "pay or play" is our stopgap to the knowledge question and why parents left AYSO (because they had coaches that didn't know how to teach and players that couldn't play). Without "pay or play" we don't have knowledgeable coaches....as soccer knowledge increases in the US, the need for pay to play coaches will decrease.

Without "pay to play" what does our system look like? Well it looks like the British system. It means an AYSO rec system tiered at various levels...lot's of kick ball even at the highest levels...AYSO would abandon the "everybody plays together" philosophy that it's largely backed away from anyways and track and sort kids into various tiers...and it's a very small pro academy system where a lot of risk is placed on the players if they wash out.

 
We always get these type of whining articles when we lose. All about what is wrong with no concrete recommendations for how to improve it written by an author that is mostly a basketball reporter who seems to think we should develop players similar to basketball.

He didn't seem to bother to check into the Spanish team. If you do you will see that almost everyone of their players plays for the women's side of a La Liga club (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Athletic Club...). Most of these players are Professionals playing in one of the best leagues in the world playing a 10 month professional season. Several of them are capped on their full National Team. Meanwhile our women are playing part time in college. Maybe he chose the wrong basketball analogy. Instead of development analogy he should have used the Olympic basketball analogy where we dominate for years using our college kids but eventually the world caught up and sent their pros, forcing us to do the same. Our problem is that we have no pros that we can send. The other problem is that for 99.99% of players playing college soccer and getting a degree is a far better option than skipping college to try and play pro.
 
From the article:

It’s the opposite of how basketball players are bred in this country – in rec centers and rutted outdoor courts with frayed nets, without coaches or parents, without uniforms or referees, in pick-up games where kids hone one-on-one skills without the fear of adult disapproval, with freedom and creativity. Sound familiar? Ask Brazilian soccer stars where they got their start.

This is exactly what I was saying on another thread. If American kids don't play soccer on their own, they won't be able to compete with countries that do. The trouble is that this cannot be changed by a federation. It can only be changed by increasing the popularity of the sport and waiting until our kids' kids play for fun all the time.
 
This quite an interesting article and interesting responses from the forum members already.

It seems to me on this forum that all club soccer parents are painted with the same brush – specifically “you are paying a lot of money because you believe your kid is going to be on the national team or get a college scholarship – because that is what the club has told you is a very likely outcome.” I do believe in some cases the stereotype is true & we all likely know “that parent” – but it is not everyone.

I would argue there is a large group of parents that are a little more realistic about their “investment”. As the article lays out – it a progression from AYSO to tier 2 team to top team at small club to DA team at large club. Each with a higher price tag to go with it. As a parent I am happy when my kids are challenged and challenge themselves to excel to the highest possible level of their abilities. If that progression through soccer is the opportunity they have in soccer to excel then I am happy to pay the price tag for it. The learning they can get from that process (including the rejections, being cut, etc) is valuable in real life. The fact that it has structure, has fields, has a predictable cadence – this is also part of it that I am willing to pay for in a busy world. Should I, or do I feel guilty about paying this money for my kids? No I do not. I don’t see another soccer product available to me to get these things. Do I know I am fortunate to be able to pay the money and am I grateful for it – yes I am. Do I have an expectation that scholarships and soccer glory are in my kid’s future – no. Would it be nice, and do I hope so a little – sure – but it is not the reason I pay the money.

Now all of the expensive club soccer “products” on the market are not the same and parents need to look for those that are better than others. Also, Club soccer is first and foremost a for profit business and you should not think otherwise. This is, however a statement of club level soccer versus the overall institution of soccer in the US. The question is can the two be separated?

The obviously sad part of this is all the kids that may love soccer but don’t have the opportunity or the financial resources or the support structure to pass through that progression of soccer and even get a chance to be looked at the national or collegiate level. Until there is real leadership in US Soccer that will break the cycle we should not expect this to change. That leadership is not going to come from the for-profit club soccer business and not from the colleges. Also, I don’t foresee a “soccer parent uprising” that will turn the institution of US soccer on it head.

I truly curious how real change will happen. I am pretty sure my kids will be done with soccer before it does.
 
From the article:



This is exactly what I was saying on another thread. If American kids don't play soccer on their own, they won't be able to compete with countries that do. The trouble is that this cannot be changed by a federation. It can only be changed by increasing the popularity of the sport and waiting until our kids' kids play for fun all the time.

Well, a few things. First, kids are playing basketball less on their own in this country too. It's because kids are overscheduled and if you let your kid under 13 walk alone to the park some busy body might call child protective services on you. We simply don't have free range kids anymore, except in our poorer neighborhoods (and then the complains are always to get them off the streets). Second, the response in basketball has been travel programs too (at least until high school, but increasingly the club programs are becoming important there too for college recruitment). Third, Americans seem to be in a weird competitive mode (the pendulum having swung from the 90s everybody plays together, everybody gets a trophy heydays of AYSO)...we can't even let kids play video games on their own because they might do it wrong....parents are even hiring fortnite coaches for their kids and paying them more than a private for a soccer class. Finally, the rest of the world is catching up to us even in men's basketball (which is why we changed from fielding amateur teams to US Dream Teams).

https://www.businessinsider.com/fortnite-coaches-2018-7
 
We always get these type of whining articles when we lose. All about what is wrong with no concrete recommendations for how to improve it written by an author that is mostly a basketball reporter who seems to think we should develop players similar to basketball.

He didn't seem to bother to check into the Spanish team. If you do you will see that almost everyone of their players plays for the women's side of a La Liga club (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Athletic Club...). Most of these players are Professionals playing in one of the best leagues in the world playing a 10 month professional season. Several of them are capped on their full National Team. Meanwhile our women are playing part time in college. Maybe he chose the wrong basketball analogy. Instead of development analogy he should have used the Olympic basketball analogy where we dominate for years using our college kids but eventually the world caught up and sent their pros, forcing us to do the same. Our problem is that we have no pros that we can send. The other problem is that for 99.99% of players playing college soccer and getting a degree is a far better option than skipping college to try and play pro.

The only problem with your olympic basketball analogy is the soccer players are the same age (U20). I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens next summer in France and then 4 years from then to really compare apples to apples.
 
A dad approached me at back to school night recently. He asked me to join Indian Guides. I was already against that but entertained him to be polite. Then he told me the price tag; $2000.

I’m happy my money is spent on a soccer field. I get to work on my tan, I get to watch my kid laugh. I get to watch my kid be athletic.

What does your kid get? But really, if those are your goals, try surfing instead. Way cheaper and more fun.
A dad approached me at back to school night recently. He asked me to join Indian Guides. I was already against that but entertained him to be polite. Then he told me the price tag; $2000.

I’m happy my money is spent on a soccer field. I get to work on my tan, I get to watch my kid laugh. I get to watch my kid be athletic.

There are many better ways to spend time with your kid if those are your goals. Surfing comes to mind and it's much cheaper.
 
I also saw a tweet from Christian Lavers, Presidents of ECNL.
“Pay to play is not THE problem in youth soccer & national performance. Leadership, culture, division & politics are far greater issues. Improving coaching education, cost, frequency and access are larger problems. Sound bites based on thin analysis don’t help solve anything”

Of course it’s not the problem for him. He is running a closed league with probably the highest costs per player out there. And people are lining up to tryout for ECNL teams.
They run a coaching symposium which runs around $400 for 2.5 days. Not a bad deal. It was held this year in San Diego. And next year it will be in Las Vegas.
 
Maybe we should just ditch the idea of trying to invest in making the US a powerhouse (or even a qualifier) in international soccer. Instead embrace what we all know kids are doing which is video games. ESPN has its esports website and even broadcasts games. Legend of Legends pros make big money. I have even heard they expect esports to grow into the 3rd largest sport over the next decade. We have a huge advantage in this up and coming sport and maybe we should be doubling down on it. Forming a US Gaming Association and pulling kids out of school to devote more time to gaming. That way when there is a world cup or it is added to the Olympics we can make sure we dominate.
 
Maybe we should just ditch the idea of trying to invest in making the US a powerhouse (or even a qualifier) in international soccer. Instead embrace what we all know kids are doing which is video games. ESPN has its esports website and even broadcasts games. Legend of Legends pros make big money. I have even heard they expect esports to grow into the 3rd largest sport over the next decade. We have a huge advantage in this up and coming sport and maybe we should be doubling down on it. Forming a US Gaming Association and pulling kids out of school to devote more time to gaming. That way when there is a world cup or it is added to the Olympics we can make sure we dominate.

I hear that Spike Ball, Can Jam and frisbee golf are up and coming. Too bad they outlawed Jarts back in the day. I had a shot to make it big time. Before I had a giant lawn dart penetrate my cerebral cortex
 
It seems to me on this forum that all club soccer parents are painted with the same brush – specifically “you are paying a lot of money because you believe your kid is going to be on the national team or get a college scholarship – because that is what the club has told you is a very likely outcome.” I do believe in some cases the stereotype is true & we all likely know “that parent” – but it is not everyone.

I truly curious how real change will happen. I am pretty sure my kids will be done with soccer before it does.
Good post. I hate articles like this. Other than #pay-to-playIsTheRootOfAllEvil (which is highly debatable), what does this article actually offer? My DD is in her 4th year of club soccer and I know she won't be on the USWNT. But she chooses to play and I support her. If I know for certain that my kids won't study engineering or computer science in college, I will still make them take Calculus in high school. Not everything we choose to do in life needs to have an ROI.

I also don't know how real change will happen with the current soccer culture and structure in US. In a one-party system like China, President Xi wants China to be a soccer power, then the whole government and country get behind it. In our free economy, money talks. From what I understand, Brazil's domestic league has been in terrible shape for many years and competition is no better than MLS. But they make money selling their best young players to the European clubs, so they can afford to invest money to develop domestic youth. Consequently their young (and old) players get better at their perspective European clubs every day and they have a formidable national team without a thriving domestic league. In US, if clubs don't get paid for developing talents, then I don't see another model other than pay-to-play.............especially on the girls' side.
 
Back
Top