"HANDBALL"

socalkdg said:
Last night, hard shot towards the goal by one of my girls in AYSO, hits girls hand that is stuck out at a 90 degree angle from her body. Looks intentional, two referees on my side say it looks like a hand ball. Referee says it was accidental. I ask are you sure, her arm and hand extended outwards into the flight of the ball. I lose a point for sportsmanship, and get a warning that if I say another word he will reward the other team with a penalty kick. I apologize and shut my mouth.
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Your league plays games on Wednesday nights?

Yes, that was a handling foul.
 
U12 AYSO, yes. Mid-season tourney, raises money for cancer. Played Wednesday, Friday, two games Saturday.

Watched the girls's U17 games and the finals of the women's professional league. Had both recorded. They seem to call a lot of hand balls that most definitely weren't intentional. The big question is why? All were outside the box at least, but after reading information here, surprised me how often hand ball is called with olders and professionals.
 
The one that kills me is when a player misplays or misses a trap and the ball bounces up (from foot, thigh or ground) and hits the player in the elbow or forearm, not deliberate but the vast majority of refs call it a handball.
 
I always start off my pregame with the players as saying "handballs... I hate them and you probably won't see me calling many of them because they need to be DELIBERATE and they need to be hand to the ball not ball to the hand" That's all the rules say about it anyways and you don't need to explain anything to any coach or player.
 
I try to evaluate as follows:

1 hands in natural playing position
2 distance from ball when struck
3 did player get an advantage from use of hand

May not be the best way, but it has worked for me.
 
Frank said:
I try to evaluate as follows:

1 hands in natural playing position
2 distance from ball when struck
3 did player get an advantage from use of hand

May not be the best way, but it has worked for me.
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What's wrong with going by USSF/IFAB consideratio?
 
Law5 said:
I always start off my pregame with the players as saying "handballs... I hate them and you probably won't see me calling many of them because they need to be DELIBERATE and they need to be hand to the ball not ball to the hand" That's all the rules say about it anyways and you don't need to explain anything to any coach or player.
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I have always found these pregames with players rather strange.
 
watfly said:
The one that kills me is when a player misplays or misses a trap and the ball bounces up (from foot, thigh or ground) and hits the player in the elbow or forearm, not deliberate but the vast majority of refs call it a handball.
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Vast majority? Where?
 
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watfly said:
The one that kills me is when a player misplays or misses a trap and the ball bounces up (from foot, thigh or ground) and hits the player in the elbow or forearm, not deliberate but the vast majority of refs call it a handball.
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Those referees that you refer too are not the vast majority. They are the ones that do not attend the monthly training or even open the LOTG book to study. The vast majority of these refs tend to be lazy and do not know how to apply the LOTG. Any decent ref knows the criteria for Handling unlike the large number of parents that are constantly yelling "handball."
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
Our defender tried to chest the ball this weekend, and missed it. The ball bounced and hit her forearm. Ref called the foul, PK as it happened in the box.
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What was the position of her arm? Was it by her side, out to the side, in the air? The position and movement of the arm are considerations.

I rarely call handling.
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
Our defender tried to chest the ball this weekend, and missed it. The ball bounced and hit her forearm. Ref called the foul, PK as it happened in the box.
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What was the position of her arm? Was it by her side, out to the side, in the air? The position and movement of the arm are considerations.

I rarely call handling.
 
Surfref said:
They are the ones that do not attend the monthly training or even open the LOTG book to study.
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I don't doubt that is the case and I'm not including you in that group. Would you say that over 50% of licensed refs in San Diego attend the monthly meetings?

Maybe vast majority is a little harsh, but is there are many refs at the youth level, and many more parents, that believe its a foul if a player benefits or gains an advantage from a non-deliberate "handball".
 
watfly said:
I don't doubt that is the case and I'm not including you in that group. Would you say that over 50% of licensed refs in San Diego attend the monthly meetings?

Maybe vast majority is a little harsh, but is there are many refs at the youth level, and many more parents, that believe its a foul if a player benefits or gains an advantage from a non-deliberate "handball".
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Parents, sure. But referees? Perhaps a few. But many? Where?
 
Surfref said:
What was the position of her arm? Was it by her side, out to the side, in the air? The position and movement of the arm are considerations.

I rarely call handling.
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Player's arms were out for balance. She collected the ball the same way every time, and did so several times prior to the call so this was no a deliberate handball situation.
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
Player's arms were out for balance. She collected the ball the same way every time, and did so several times prior to the call so this was no a deliberate handball situation.
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Not so sure. There is a "trick" that many players are taught, and learn quite well. They learn to receive a ball at the chest with their fists clenched, arms pointing straight up, to the side of their body. It is taught as a way to "bear down" and tighten the core for the reception. But coaches and players also know that a misplay will likely deflect off the lower biceps or inner elbow. Unless the referee is in a perfect position, handling is rarely called. Coaches also teach the player to jerk sideways to make it appear as thought the ball is being directed by the chest, although there is clear redirection by the upper arm.

As a coach and part of a referee crew, I've seen it work most of the time.
 
coachrefparent said:
Not so sure. There is a "trick" that many players are taught, and learn quite well. They learn to receive a ball at the chest with their fists clenched, arms pointing straight up, to the side of their body. It is taught as a way to "bear down" and tighten the core for the reception. But coaches and players also know that a misplay will likely deflect off the lower biceps or inner elbow. Unless the referee is in a perfect position, handling is rarely called. Coaches also teach the player to jerk sideways to make it appear as thought the ball is being directed by the chest, although there is clear redirection by the upper arm.

As a coach and part of a referee crew, I've seen it work most of the time.
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If the referee is in a perfect, (or not perfect) position, what you describe is not handling the ball deliberately and should not be called even if the ball deflects off the lower biceps or inner elbow, at least according to USSF considerations. The ball went towards the arms and not the arms towards the ball.
 
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