ECNL. The C stands for Cartel

[NorCalDad]

I've seen it stated on this board, I think I even may have participated - but nobody has substantiated that De Anza Force was booted from ECNL Boys. They are still the #21 boys club in California (out of ~ 300 boys clubs), and are still sporting MLS Next teams from 2011B through 06/05B. Many clubs choose between MLS and ECNL on the boys side, and for the most part, MLS N is a higher tier than anything ECNL provides in this area. It is true that ECNL was the 2nd team for the De Anza Force Boys side, and they weren't particularly good compared to the first team of ECNL-only clubs, but what's posted here sounds more like sour grapes than someone posting anything substantial that De Anza received from ECNL themselves.

I simply said they lost ECNL status -- nothing more, nothing less. I'm not privy to how that played out. The fact remains, they are no longer part of ECNL on the boys side.

I can pretty much guarantee, though, that they would have preferred to have kept it as opposed to having their second team in NPL or whatever this MLS Next 2 thing is supposed to be. For the way De Anza handles its rosters (they typically have around 30 players on their "first" teams), ECNL was a great way to balance things out. They pick their weekly 15ish for the MLS Next games, and then send the rest to the ECNL games. Now their offering is a bit watered down for the 2nd team play. Those 2nd team players could go play on an NPL team pretty much anywhere else. So, yeah, I think it's pretty fair to say DeAnza didn't want to leave ECNL.

No sour grapes here -- I couldn't care less what leagues DeAnza plays in.

I don't think there's a massive separation between the top half of ECNL teams and mid-table MLS Next. Sure, there are some MLS Next teams that are very good, but there are lot of average teams as well. Most of the MLS Next teams are from clubs that would definitely struggle to put together a full program that meets ECNL requirements (competitive 1st and 2nd teams U13-U19). This is why you will see clubs with just one or two age groups in MLS Next. No knock to either model -- they both have their place.

 

[Grace T.]

Not going to lie. $20 for parking per day at surf park is outrageous considering teams pay for the tournament. They won't let you drop off either. Not to mention their parking is slow and long as hell at times.

I do wish there were more options with leagues and such to save everyone drive time and fees. Maybe we need some type of soccer club distruptor to shake things up?

If this ever comes to a competition law suit, the ags are going to find you and subpoena you to testify .

 

[Grace T.]

I've seen it stated on this board, I think I even may have participated - but nobody has substantiated that De Anza Force was booted from ECNL Boys. They are still the #21 boys club in California (out of ~ 300 boys clubs), and are still sporting MLS Next teams from 2011B through 06/05B. Many clubs choose between MLS and ECNL on the boys side, and for the most part, MLS N is a higher tier than anything ECNL provides in this area. It is true that ECNL was the 2nd team for the De Anza Force Boys side, and they weren't particularly good compared to the first team of ECNL-only clubs, but what's posted here sounds more like sour grapes than someone posting anything substantial that De Anza received from ECNL themselves.

The rumor about De Anza and Tampa is that ecnl didn’t want second teams participating in ecnl only first teams. Don’t know if true or not but if true that means this isn’t an example of relegation…just plain old league turf wars.

 

[NorCalUSN]

You think college coaches are using the youth soccer rankings app to figure out what players to go watch outside of ecnl and ga teams? I don't think that's the case on the girls side, and certainly not at the higher levels of college soccer. They go to ecnl and ga showcases/playoffs/league games, with more focus on the former. Some say it is lazy, but there are just too many players out there and not enough time in the day. Even if they do see some talent at a camp, watching that player in a game against lesser overall talent doesn't particularly help the coach assess if that player can play at a higher level. If you are talking about lower level d1 or below, then I guess it is possible.

I don't even think they are doing this. My experience, my perception is they are following the stories for the big prospects. My experience was my daughter didn't get any attention until her name popped up on a selection list and then coaches were showing interest. I lean toward the lazy they are using these showcases and selection games, ID2, etc to do the work for them and then they come in "Wow you are a great player I've been watching you" ignoring the creepyness of a grown man saying this, I just don't put a lot of faith in their scouting acumen

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I don't think there's a massive separation between the top half of ECNL teams and mid-table MLS Next. Sure, there are some MLS Next teams that are very good, but there are lot of average teams as well. Most of the MLS Next teams are from clubs that would definitely struggle to put together a full program that meets ECNL requirements (competitive 1st and 2nd teams U13-U19). This is why you will see clubs with just one or two age groups in MLS Next. No knock to either model -- they both have their place.

I think you'll find this to be very different if you are talking about U13 or U19. In this area being discussed at least, the one De Anza plays in, for U13, the brackets are almost identical from Gold all the way through Premier, NPL, ECNL and then MLS Next. It's pretty silly when you look at the numbers. All kids (and parents) are still trying to sort out what's what, and a top team in any of the brackets would be a top team in any of the brackets. A bottom team in any of the brackets would be the same in any of the brackets. We can quibble about what mid-table means in practice, but the bigger picture is that the range from top to bottom in all brackets is much larger than the difference between any of the brackets/leagues. By U15 there is significant separation, and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL, which is for the most part ahead of NPL. Anyone arguing that ECNL is more competitive, has better resourced clubs, or is superior in any way than MLS Next in this area has a solid point when they are talking about U13, and is completely and totally wrong when they are talking about U15+.

 

[Grace T.]

I think you'll find this to be very different if you are talking about U13 or U19. In this area being discussed at least, the one De Anza plays in, for U13, the brackets are almost identical from Gold all the way through Premier, NPL, ECNL and then MLS Next. It's pretty silly when you look at the numbers. All kids (and parents) are still trying to sort out what's what, and a top team in any of the brackets would be a top team in any of the brackets. A bottom team in any of the brackets would be the same in any of the brackets. We can quibble about what mid-table means in practice, but the bigger picture is that the range from top to bottom in all brackets is much larger than the difference between any of the brackets/leagues. By U15 there is significant separation, and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL, which is for the most part ahead of NPL. Anyone arguing that ECNL is more competitive, has better resourced clubs, or is superior in any way than MLS Next in this area has a solid point when they are talking about U13, and is completely and totally wrong when they are talking about U15+.

It also varies region to region. In Washington for example the only mls next teams in the area are Seattle and Vancouver both of which are mls academy teams so ecnl are top dog. In SoCal, I think there are only 10 ecnl clubs currently on the boys side so there isn’t a lot of dilution and some like real SoCal draw from regions that have no mls next coverage or like breakers which even with the addition of lasc on the next side is still under covered. In Texas some stronger clubs have walked out of mls next to ecnl to be replaced by some clubs out of no where to fill the gap. In Florida mls next is dominant because of the presence of the academies, img and Tampa.

 

[Woobie06]

Most sports are pay to play…think soccer is bad…golf, tennis, gymnastics, etc. It is the youth sports model in the US. Not saying it is right, just saying it is what it is. ECNL does a great job with events getting the coaches out there for Showcases. My DD’s Club has had a few local coaches at club ECNL league games in CA, but the big ECNL showcases, playoffs, and Surf Events draw the largest amount of coaches. GA is second. For the 2025 Commits so far almost 75% are coming from ECNL, almost 25% coming from GA, and rest from other leagues and international. The coaches have spoken on where they are looking. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Coaches do look at the emails and show up to games to watch kids interested in the school, and they look at good teams and identify players. I have heard from coaches we know, that kids that want to go to their school, they watch and evaluate. You are not going to be found like a needle in a hay stack. Emails, film, camps…rinse and repeat.

It’s a condition not an illness, you can treat and over come an illness, a condition you have to manage and deal with. ECNL has the best platform, and access is predicated by being on a member club. Just gonna have to accept that condition and deal with it whether you like it or not.

Every IG Sweatshirt Pic has a different story…no money, academic only, some athletic, full athletic, full w/academic + athletic, graduated scales of money. We know families with all of these. As long as the kid is where they want to be, finances work for the family, and everyone is happy it is all good. As expensive as all the tournaments, camps, travel, etc. was/is…I look at it as entertainment…spending time with my kid, making friend with parents on the team and other teams, watching the kids play, grow, develop, mature…its been a fun ride, and will miss it a bit when it is over.

 

[NorCalDad]

I think you'll find this to be very different if you are talking about U13 or U19. In this area being discussed at least, the one De Anza plays in, for U13, the brackets are almost identical from Gold all the way through Premier, NPL, ECNL and then MLS Next. It's pretty silly when you look at the numbers. All kids (and parents) are still trying to sort out what's what, and a top team in any of the brackets would be a top team in any of the brackets. A bottom team in any of the brackets would be the same in any of the brackets. We can quibble about what mid-table means in practice, but the bigger picture is that the range from top to bottom in all brackets is much larger than the difference between any of the brackets/leagues. By U15 there is significant separation, and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL, which is for the most part ahead of NPL. Anyone arguing that ECNL is more competitive, has better resourced clubs, or is superior in any way than MLS Next in this area has a solid point when they are talking about U13, and is completely and totally wrong when they are talking about U15+.

I totally disagree with "and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL". You might have a few teams in MLS Next at that age group that would dominate ECNL teams, but the rest of those MLS Next teams are on par with the top ECNL teams. Just look at the U17 Northwest division, not a lot of power houses in there. Yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Personally I think MLS Next in the Bay Area is always going to struggle. There's just too much cannon fodder and not enough high quality teams/clubs. I get why it exists as the Quakes need to have local matches. SoCal probably has a bit more parity just given their population size.

 

[crush]

Most sports are pay to play…think soccer is bad…golf, tennis, gymnastics, etc. It is the youth sports model in the US. Not saying it is right, just saying it is what it is. ECNL does a great job with events getting the coaches out there for Showcases. My DD’s Club has had a few local coaches at club ECNL league games in CA, but the big ECNL showcases, playoffs, and Surf Events draw the largest amount of coaches. GA is second. For the 2025 Commits so far almost 75% are coming from ECNL, almost 25% coming from GA, and rest from other leagues and international. The coaches have spoken on where they are looking. Like it or not, that’s the reality. Coaches do look at the emails and show up to games to watch kids interested in the school, and they look at good teams and identify players. I have heard from coaches we know, that kids that want to go to their school, they watch and evaluate. You are not going to be found like a needle in a hay stack. Emails, film, camps…rinse and repeat.

It’s a condition not an illness, you can treat and over come an illness, a condition you have to manage and deal with. ECNL has the best platform, and access is predicated by being on a member club. Just gonna have to accept that condition and deal with it whether you like it or not.

Every IG Sweatshirt Pic has a different story…no money, academic only, some athletic, full athletic, full w/academic + athletic, graduated scales of money. We know families with all of these. As long as the kid is where they want to be, finances work for the family, and everyone is happy it is all good. As expensive as all the tournaments, camps, travel, etc. was/is…I look at it as entertainment…spending time with my kid, making friend with parents on the team and other teams, watching the kids play, grow, develop, mature…its been a fun ride, and will miss it a bit when it is over.

Love this. It was pure entertainment for me until the recruiting started.

 

[NorCalDad]

I think you'll find this to be very different if you are talking about U13 or U19. In this area being discussed at least, the one De Anza plays in, for U13, the brackets are almost identical from Gold all the way through Premier, NPL, ECNL and then MLS Next. It's pretty silly when you look at the numbers. All kids (and parents) are still trying to sort out what's what, and a top team in any of the brackets would be a top team in any of the brackets. A bottom team in any of the brackets would be the same in any of the brackets. We can quibble about what mid-table means in practice, but the bigger picture is that the range from top to bottom in all brackets is much larger than the difference between any of the brackets/leagues. By U15 there is significant separation, and by U17, MLS Next is miles ahead of ECNL, which is for the most part ahead of NPL. Anyone arguing that ECNL is more competitive, has better resourced clubs, or is superior in any way than MLS Next in this area has a solid point when they are talking about U13, and is completely and totally wrong when they are talking about U15+.

I should clarify, if you're talking about the West Division, which is effectively just the Academy teams on the west coast, then yeah that division is better than any NorCal ECNL table by a long mile -- but we're talking the Bay Area...so I'm assuming we're focused on the Northwest Division, which, again, isn't loaded with power houses. Some of those are incredibly small clubs. I suspect many of these clubs would much rather be in ECNL vs MLS Next.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I should clarify, if you're talking about the West Division, which is effectively just the Academy teams on the west coast, then yeah that division is better than any NorCal ECNL table by a long mile -- but we're talking the Bay Area...so I'm assuming we're focused on the Northwest Division, which, again, isn't loaded with power houses. Some of those are incredibly small clubs. I suspect many of these clubs would much rather be in ECNL vs MLS Next.

Choosing to not play against pro MLS Acadamies doesn't make sense. If you're a competitive soccer club you want to play against the best.

However for boys I can see a couple of situations where you'd choose ECNL (or whatever league over MLSN). The first would be if there's no MLSN teams that are local to play + there's several ECNL teams. It just wouldn't make sense to fly out for every game when there's local high level clubs to play. The other reason would be ECNL "tieing" girls ECNL access to participating in boys ECNL. (Which is illegal but happens)

 

[NorCalDad]

Choosing to not play against pro MLS Acadamies doesn't make sense. If you're a competitive soccer club you want to play against the best.

However for boys I can see a couple of situations where you'd choose ECNL (or whatever league over MLSN). The first would be if there's no MLSN teams that are local to play + there's several ECNL teams. It just wouldn't make sense to fly out for every game when there's local high level clubs to play. The other reason would be ECNL "tieing" girls ECNL access to participating in boys ECNL. (Which is illegal but happens)

I don't think I'm suggesting to not play against the Academies. The Academies are in a conundrum -- as the teams get older, it's tougher to find good local competition (ergo the West Division). They have to travel a ton to get good matches. I don't envy them.

I do think there's an opportunity for MLS to work with ECNL, as I think the ECNL model, the way NorCal is managing it, will probably be the future in the Bay Area.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I don't think I'm suggesting to not play against the Academies. The Academies are in a conundrum -- as the teams get older, it's tougher to find good local competition (ergo the West Division). They have to travel a ton to get good matches. I don't envy them.

I do think there's an opportunity for MLS to work with ECNL, as I think the ECNL model, the way NorCal is managing it, will probably be the future in the Bay Area.

I don't see any actual reason why MLS Acadamies couldn't play ECNL teams in a some kind of super league other than people in power don't want to do it.

It would be challenging keeping all the player paperwork straight + keeping different leagues in alignment. Which is likely what it's not happening.

You also have to keep in mind that maybe ECNL clubs don't want to play MLSN teams. This would be because MLSN teams would immediately try to recruit ECNL players that played well against MLSN teams.

 

[NorCalDad]

For giggles, here's the rankings of the MLS Next Northwest Division and the ECLN NorCal Division:





While I don't think rankings are the end-all-be-all -- this data does suggest there's not a massive separation from these divisions. Sac Republic is probably the only anomaly here -- it's weird they haven't played any MLS Next games yet (perhaps they haven't been reported). The top half of the ECNL side would compete just fine with those MLS Next teams based on this info.

 

[NorCalDad]

I don't see any actual reason why MLS Acadamies couldn't play ECNL teams in a some kind of super league other than people in power don't want to do it.

It would be challenging keeping all the player paperwork straight + keeping different leagues in alignment. Which is likely what it's not happening.

You also have to keep in mind that maybe ECNL clubs don't want to play MLSN teams. This would be because MLSN teams would immediately try to recruit ECNL players that played well against MLSN teams.

I don't think there's any real truth to that last statement. I've been hearing more and more about players leaving MLS Next teams so they can play high school soccer. Recently heard some MLS Next teams are giving permission to players to play in HS as they don't want to lose those players. I think ECNL coaches really only fear the Academies (which would be a good thing for their players) and perhaps clubs like De Anza. I don't think the others carry that much weight -- at least here in NorCal.

 

[NorCalDad]

I don't see any actual reason why MLS Acadamies couldn't play ECNL teams in a some kind of super league other than people in power don't want to do it.

It would be challenging keeping all the player paperwork straight + keeping different leagues in alignment. Which is likely what it's not happening.

You also have to keep in mind that maybe ECNL clubs don't want to play MLSN teams. This would be because MLSN teams would immediately try to recruit ECNL players that played well against MLSN teams.

And Actually, I think ECNL coaches are more worried about losing players to other ECNL teams vs MLS Next.

 

[Carlsbad7]

And Actually, I think ECNL coaches are more worried about losing players to other ECNL teams vs MLS Next.

Maybe, maybe not. I just posted some hypotheticals.

The problem with a true Academy is that you need a large pool of players that's constantly refreshed with potential talent. In pay to play teams are created around players that are able to fund playing. It's hard to mix to two in a single geography because they have different outcomes and ideals.

 

[NorCalDad]

Maybe, maybe not. I just posted some hypotheticals.

The problem with a true Academy is that you need a large pool of players that's constantly refreshed with potential talent. In pay to play teams are created around players that are able to fund playing. It's hard to mix to two in a single geography because they have different outcomes and ideals.

Not sure I'm following you on this train of thought.

For what it's worth, all of the major clubs have some form of financial aid that greatly reduces fees for players that couldn't afford it otherwise.

I think most of the clubs would super happy if a player was recruited by the Quakes, for example. That club would now be part of that player's story if they take their game to even greater heights. Someone had to develop that player.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I think that's fair. Top boys clubs in CA are stacked with MLS clubs (6 of top 10, including the top 5). Only some of them are in NorCal, and the weaker ones in NorCal aren't particularly good teams, as compared to equivalent teams in ECNL, NPL, or EA.

Your comment about clubs being happy when players are recruited by the Quakes is spot-on, one of the reasons that the Quakes are top 10 nationally (in all but two ages, top 15 in the remaining 2), is that the top talent from the area finds its way there eventually. It is (and should be) hard to compete with training from an actual MLS club, along with zero fees for anyone accepted to the team.

 

[Yours in futbol]

The boys side in Northern California has pro/rel for ECNL. NorCal manages this. I suspect this will become a more widely accepted model going forward.

What ECNL Boys pro/rel model are you talking about?